Lucy Letby case #22

[MmmB777]

Even if he was touting for the job, they used multiple experts and it still doesn't take away from the fact that Lucy Letby had all these coincidences of babies suddenly deteriorating, dying or being with left complex needs, searched these families on Facebook, at times seemed to be inappropriate and took home paperwork that should never have left the hospital.

I’ve spoken a few times about a very close relative being an expert witness. They are particularly knowledgable in one area, hence why they’re an expert witness. If they were in touch with police (regularly are, regularly work with the same forces up and down the country because once they do a job and see that they’re great (working with victim, giving evidence in court that very few people can hack, explaining things to police) then they often use them again. If there was something in the news that was her specific area of knowledge, it would not be some corrupt suspicious thing to say, I’d be happy to work this case where said skill is needed, it’s my kind of case. It would make total sense. Once they’d got themselves into the cluster fuck of a case that would take up years of their life they’d regret it (fairly frequent feeling expressed ).
The idea DE has some personal incentive to get this case to go one way or the other or that he has somehow managed to misrepresent things that are literally there in notes, in X-rays is just laughable.

Also really annoying to have all this shite and not the account from Prof SK today

Speaking to said relative, whose opinions on this are very sweary they said he will be on the NCA database, he was clearly already on it. Because knowledgable and good at his job which is a public service. Presumably people are allowed to be on first name terms with people they work with

 

[Windowtothewall]

I found today's evidence very compelling. I cannot believe that a well known doctor would perjure himself by lying under oath just to get LL convicted - he doesn't need to. Am pretty sure the CPS would have prosecuted even without his evidence - there was enough from the medical experts.

The thing that annoys me is BM trying to paint her as dedicated to her job and patients for doing all the extra shifts - when she said in her messages she was doing it for the money anyway. And I think she was orchestrating these incidents and drama as she wanted to be in the more exciting Liverpool Women's unit (according to her messages to friends) but couldn't because of the distance. So was generating that sort of excitement for herself close to home. She strikes me as lacking empathy - and also as someone who has learnt to mimic empathy to come across 'normal'. So I can see her as viewing the babies very mechanically, not as human beings, but means to an end (more excitement).

Unrelated - but I read this horrific story few days ago of this former prison warden woman who used to abuse and torture her husband and has been sentenced to jail. She too looks normal and I bet her social media too would have portrayed her as such - but for 20 years she lived this double life as a monster.

Woman jailed for 20-year campaign of domestic abuse against 'cowering' husband

Prison reform boss Sheree Spencer kicked, punched, bit and spat on her husband, who was for years was too afraid to speak out.

uk.news.yahoo.com

Goes to show that some people are just inherently cruel and there's no reason for it.

 

[Milktray]

I don't know what people are expecting from BM. He is going down the 'confirmation bias' route, so regardless of how shit it may come across, there is not much else. He is going to bring stuff like this up. It doesn't matter if there's other medical experts giving their opinion.

Ben will probably say that Dr Evans opinion influenced others aswell. Ben is not saying it to be desperate, he is saying it to give an example of how this went from natural causes to negligence to murder. And how alot of evidence is based on what key witnesses remember.

But Ben is an expert in his field as much as Dr Evans is an expert in his. This trial is far from over and the 'cats not in the bag' yet, although up to now, too many 'coincidences' for this to be a coincidence.

 

[MmmB777]

You would be traumatised wouldnt you. I wouldnt be surprised if they didnt or couldnt return to work after this. I can only imagine where your head would be after, as you say, your care being picked apart. Constantly doubting yourself because of that (alleged) animal

I read a really sad interview with a nurse that had instructed Beverly Alitt to go and see to a patient and in that moment BA harmed/killed the child. She emigrated and said still doesn’t have a day where she doesn’t feel guilty.

 

[MmmB777]

Interestingly she says no alarm sounded. This makes it a bit problematic for her imo. Sounds like there is a decent paper trail of the incident and door data to back it up. Plus these witness statements. Honestly feel the arrogance seeping through on her answers on this one. A 600gram 25 weeker on a fucking ventilator is not going to self correct. She’s vile.

 

[Appletiser]

From Virginia in US. Thanks. I had figured you were referencing various stores but a keg here is like a barrel of beer bought for keg parties, picnics, etc. Women’s underwear here are panties, maybe skivvies, drawers, bloomers depending on age & area the speaker is from. Types are granny panties, hipsters, bikini, French cut, thongs and boycut. Men’s are referred to as boxers, underwear, whitey tighties, briefs, thongs, and long john’s.

Panties always makes me think of a creepy older man (no offence lol )
---

Yes!
1-Drnonametheonethatbangedletby
2-Drnonamedefinitelydidnt

I personally liked “Choc Doc”

 

[docmum]

I actually think this is the most compelling case so far. She was pretty much caught red handed but Dr J sadly didn’t quite realise it.

exactly this. He was putting things together himself but the baby was transferred out. I feel like she would have been watched like a hawk after this and when the next unexpected deteriorations started actions were taken to get her removed from unsupervised clinical care. I wonder if this is why this baby was presented after the last two as we will see how suspicions are raised surrounding the babies to come.

 

[Tofino]

Good old Daily Mail bringing us the full cup of tea with mystery doctor

 

[avabella]

I love how your username is a cross between Lucy Letby and Michael Myers.

Genuinely thought it was for Ben Myers maybe LL borrows his car too

edited to add; I definitely think there was something romantic brewing, or had happened. The Dr isn’t just going to offer up his car to any nurses is he? Or leave chocolate in a hiding place (how would she know what ‘top shelf’ it was?)- so it’s definitely something with a bit of history. Plus he also knew where she lived (laugh loved).

 

[DellaC]

Tofino that timeline is chilling.
Away for a week and within 3 days of being back she'd murdered 2 and attempted to murder a third.

I hope everyone in the court today has someone at home to hug them x

 

[Takemetoyourbuffet]

I've been having a read up about the Alex Murdaugh murder trial in the states. Completely different case to LL, but I spotted this statement from the prosecution on circumstantial evidence and found it interesting.

The state doesn’t have direct evidence linking Murdaugh to the crime, such as a confession, an eyewitness or a video of the slayings, the state prosecutor conceded. But circumstantial evidence can still be pieced together to make a strong case, he argued....

“The perfect storm was gathering,” Waters said, urging the jury: “Listen to that gathering storm.”

After a long investigation, Waters said evidence led the state to Murdaugh and his tumultuous finances. He leaned forward toward the jury and extended his arm backward, pointing to the defense table.

“He was the storm,” Waters said of Murdaugh, raising his voice. “The storm was coming for them.”

He urged the jury to remember that they didn’t need to step outside to know if a storm had passed. Getting rained on would be like having direct evidence. But Waters said someone could also stay inside, hear the clap of thunder and the sound of water pounding the roof, and draw the same conclusion. That would be akin to using circumstantial evidence.

 

[F1Grid]

Sure. They work for/with the public. The public have a right to know who's been involved in what. It's not like Lucy is about to be sending gang bangers to their front door steps. Just think full transparency would be the right thing.

The public doesn't have the right to know this man's apparently involved with Lucy's fanny - that's personal life, not professional. And it's more than gang bangers who'll have issues with him having done!

I suspect the reason that it is being brought up is that the personal relationship specifically is felt to be significant. Whether she's creating more incidents (because from here, it escalates) to try and capture the attention of this man, or because he breaks it off, or whatever, there's a reason they're including these messages.

 

[MmmB777]

This is from the wiki, page 2. He was tasked with looking at 33 cases and he didn’t know the staff. I just don’t see now confirmation bias really fits - he’s found some cases not suspicious, some were and the ones he found suspicious Lucy just happened to be around at the time of each incident?
- -
He was asked to investigate 33 cases in total, with two insulin cases later.

He said there were two babies were born in unsurvivable conditions, with obvious medical diagnoses.

He said: "The name Lucy Letby meant nothing to me. I didn't know the staff.
- -
Incidentally, re-reading the reporting from then compared to now shows just how much we are missing. It actually took me by surprise how detailed it was back then. And we still wouldn’t have been getting everything at that point either.

Even given the insulin cases later! So they were not influencing him. I mean does BM realise he’s pretty much implicating the police force and NCA with these accusations.
---

This is from the wiki, page 2. He was tasked with looking at 33 cases and he didn’t know the staff. I just don’t see how confirmation bias really fits - he’s found some cases not suspicious, some were and the ones he found suspicious Lucy just happened to be around at the time of each incident?
- -
He was asked to investigate 33 cases in total, with two insulin cases later.

He said there were two babies were born in unsurvivable conditions, with obvious medical diagnoses.

He said: "The name Lucy Letby meant nothing to me. I didn't know the staff.
- -
Incidentally, re-reading the reporting from then compared to now shows just how much we are missing. It actually took me by surprise how detailed it was back then. And we still wouldn’t have been getting everything at that point either.
---


ohhhh I get it now. This was one last big push for his retirement fund!


I forgot the 3rd expert died

Maybe he didn’t die. Dr Evans killed him in the swastika shaped gardens because he didn’t actually agree with his conclusions. Dr J watched on laughing manically and Dr Noname was busy spiking bags of insulin because Letby didn’t like his chocolate. And Dr Evans laughed all the way to the bank.

 

[raspberryjuice]

We can’t really judge whether she’s been jaded by life or has a perfect life. We know nothing about her as a person, just what she’s accused of.

She could have been the school bully, or bullied her entire life. She could be up to her eyeballs in debt, or so comfortably financially she’s bored and looking for a money cant buy thrill. She could have been abused by a partner or her parents, or she could have been an abusive partner or child. She could have fertility problems or she could have had a child who didn’t live with her. She could have been forever single, she could have had a string of relationships, she could have been with her childhood sweetheart for many years. She could have spent her free time volunteering at food banks or a dogs home or she could have spent her free time playing poker, drinking whisky and smoking weed in someone’s garage.

We have literally no idea about any aspect of her life (except she went to salsa class with another nurse) other than she was a neonatal nurse who is accused of harming babies.

 

[gimmethattea]

Just read about baby N and O.

I hope this monster never sees light of day again.

If anyone is struggling with this case and is feeling triggered I'd avoid what's to come

I've just had a look and poor baby O, baby P and their family. Baby O went from being really well and stable to a sudden deterioration and dead.

I've made my feelings known before, but I feel that she's guilty and I honestly don't have the words to explain for what I feel towards her and what she's done. I definitely don't care about her or her feelings or why she did it.

I may find myself skipping the next few babies.

 

[Tofino]

These are the experts we’ve heard in the case so far

Dr Dewi Evans
Dr Sandie Bohin
Professor Owen Arthurs
Professor Sally Kinsey
Professor Peter Hindmarsh

We are also expecting reviewing pathologist Dr Andreas Marnerides to give evidence eventually.

All of these expert individual reports have all come to similar conclusions. Even if Evans did tout for business, it doesn’t explain how he managed to persuade them all to come to the same conclusion too just so he could get some business!

Bearing in mind they are all basing their reports on the clinical evidence available and multiple staff testimonies, even across different hospitals. All of which, again, support the expert findings.

It’s a huge reach that Dr Evans is just making all of this fit for his own personal gain. Surely he’s not that influential.

 

[DellaC]

Absolutely everything about this rings true for me. I just don’t understand why what he does or doesn’t do changes whether Letby can be guilty or innocent regardless.

Dr Jayaram says the concerns were first raised in autumn 2015 with senior management, but were told that there was likely nothing going on.

He said the consultants went 'ok', and against their better judgment, carried on.

"We were stuck, as we had concerns.

"In retrospect, we wished we had bypassed them [senior management] and contacted the police."

"We by no means had played judge and jury, but the association was becoming clearer and clearer.

"This is an unprecedented situation for us - we play by a certain rulebook, and you don't start from a position of deliberate harm.

"It is very easy to see things that aren't there - in confirmation bias.

"But these episodes were becoming more and more and more frequent by associaiton."

Dr Jayaram said it should have been documented throughout more.

He says he discussed the incident, but did not formally document it.

Dr Jayaram said he was getting "a reasonable amount of pressure from senior management not to make a fuss".

So there's blood on the SMTs hands, not just Letbys. They allowed her to continue. It really was a perfect breeding ground for a SK.

Dr J must've been beside himself, what a crippling position to be in. I cannot imagine the pressure or strain he must've been under. And I sympathise with him. But he definitely DEFINITELY is right, he should've documented it more, particularly any dealings with SMT.

In my heart I think I would've buggered what the bosses said, I'd have removed LL from the ward and reported her straight to the police. But that's knowing what I know now. It's easy to say that when I'm not and never have been in that position.

Would Doctors be guided by a Code of Conduct regarding situations like this?

 

[IGiveUp22]

If she is guilty (and I think she is) I really do feel for this dr. The guilt he didn’t do enough (despite his hands being tied by SMT) must eat away at him every day

 

[Lucyxxxx]

When people say Lucy was pretty reminds me of the people who say Ted Bundy was handsome.

 

[I love Lasagne]

Why is her face so narrow is what I want to know

I heard her bed fell on her face when she was putting blood gas reports under it.