Lucy Letby Case #20

[raspberryjuice]

If LL was behind the screen with the baby alone, surely she could have disconnected the monitor herself then deflected blame on to the doctor? When the other nurse arrived a simple “Dr X must have left the monitor off and now baby G has collapsed, it’s so lucky I got here in time like the baby-saving hero I am”. Nurse questions the doctor, he says he’s sorry because he can’t be 100% sure either way (altho he says it would be unusual practice) and LL has got away with it again.

 

[MmmB777]

I don’t understand how it correlates to be thinking both that there is no solid evidence against Letby AND that everybody should have noticed these obvious crimes at the time. We are hearing about these babies one by one but everyone involved in this case is treating and caring for multiple other children and families in between all of this. Sometimes there is even more than one baby being sabotaged by Letby at a time for these poor people to deal with. Look at Shipman and Cullen, there were people that thought they were fantastic professionals, some that had suspicions and some that attempted to raise those suspicions and take it further but were shot down. In all these types of crimes, medics dealing with these victims, try to make things a best fit medically at the time, because that is literally their job. They don’t expect a hospital to be a crime scene. However insane these crimes feel or how people aren’t stopped (Shipman doc is incredible to get a sense of this) has absolutely no relation at all to whether a crime took place. They are questions for after the trial and will certainly be asked I’m sure.

 

[Treesy19]

Have a lot of us stopped following the case as closely? I’ve just been dipping into the odd bit recently.

Nah, I refreshed the Chester page at the end of day just now.

Im sure this will come as a surprise to everyone but I disagree that the prosecution had a good day ersonally don’t think dr evans did himself any favours today, I’m obviously not in court and it’s all paraphrased but he seemed to be moody af and pretty snappy he was also dismissive of any questions. He didn’t really explain anything just seemed to be offended that his mighty opinion was being challenged. “I don’t deal in ifs and buts I use evidence” yet his main point, about the amount of vomit was never actually recorded. So it would seem he deals in what ever suits his opinion and ifs and buts can be used when it points to LL being guilty. This isn’t the first time either where he’s added things to his opinion that weren’t in his reports (the plunger), which is odd to me anyway, he seems to like giving extra speculative details which he’s not written down anywhere and aren’t based off evidence they want me to believe he’s done multiple reports and is only realising important details now? Also the whole “I’ve not seen unexpected collapses happening regularly since so I’ve changed my opinion” seems reasonable until you realise the hospital was downgraded following these incidents, he’s contradicting what he’s said in to police with everything more fresh in his mind, If LL was out here changing her opinions on things it would be fishy behaviour, but the expert does it and no one bats an eye lid

From the questions BM asked today, there seems to be plenty of room for other causes, I’m speculating but given these questions I’d say it’s likely there’s a defence expert willing to disagree with mr evans conclusion here.

and just to add my NICU son had a milk protein intolerance ( something like that anyway I can’t remember exactly ) he would regularly projectile vomit right from birth. We were told it wasn’t unusual and his “allergy” wasn’t even noticed until he was maybe 6 months. Often he’d be given extra feeds to replace the milk that he had lost and it wasn’t documented. I don’t think my son was anywhere near as poorly as the children in these cases though so it may be totally irrelevant.

When you’re giving evidence in the witness box, you should answer the question asked - more often than not, that means a short reply. It may sound snappy when written down on a reporting website like that, but Dr E answered what was asked. To carry on needlessly isn’t good and a witness should only really answer questions that they’re asked. It means those listening get the answer rather than the answer being lost amongst them going on and on.

 

[Aberscot]

Baby G from the standard..
The 'large leak', Dr Breary says, he cannot explain, for a pre-term baby.
He says Dr Ventress was getting chest movement from Child G on the Neopuff device.
"It's perplexing and I can't think of a natural cause why that would happen."

Another Dr and another case of never seen this before and no natural cause …
Another coincidence that LL was there, I don’t think so and another poor baby that deteriorated that was doing well.
Surely anyone thinking she’s innocent must be having doubts now, I am including her parents in this..

 

[DianaBanana]

I agree it’s been very strong today from what I’ve seen. I find Dr Evans evidence to be consistently credible, and I think the defence see him as their biggest threat. Hence trying to discredit him all the time.

 

[stardust1]

Can’t wait for the same argument to happen every 3 days until the 9thbring it on

 

[Tofino]

Are they waiting for me to update the wiki? I still haven’t got round to adding the final week they were in court before Christmas

 

[MmmB777]

The doctor was the only person to have had any reason to have moved or altered the monitor. Nobody else should have and so if it was found to be off I can completely understand why he accepted responsibility because the alternative would have been somebody else sabotaging the baby’s care which he wouldn’t have believed possible. I personally think that is still what has happened. It isn’t going to be the first time we hear about equipment seemingly not working how it should. Nor is he the first to feel like he is responsible in some way, plenty of people in this case are left feeling like they could or should have done more because there are mysterious circumstances often. There are other times alarms aren’t sounding when they should be and have been silenced. I still believe either way, it is the presence of Letby that is significant here. The baby has been sabotaged, the monitor would have picked this up quicker but wouldn’t have prevented what happened.
The fact the nurse reported it at the time is completely baffling to me, why couldn’t she see it as a significant event when giving her statement and is only remembering on the stand. I do think he apologised and accepted responsibility but I do not believe that means he did it nor do I think it means Letby wasn’t the cause of this collapse.

 

[IGiveUp22]

I do find it baffling how others can have such different opinions after todays reportings but I respect that not everyone thinks the same.

i am keen to know myself if the defence have medical experts which can provide explanations to counter what the prosecution have said.

However, based on the evidence from these experts today, I believe someone deliberately over fed that baby.

Then it comes down to the whole thing of LL being there…again. It’s just too much at this stage.

 

[SnoopySnooper86]

Myers comes across like a complete asshole.

I’ve been on both sides, I’ve been on a jury & I’ve been cross examined by a dickhead defence lawyer.

In my experience on a jury you see it, you know exactly what straws they’re clutching at a mile off.

As a prosecution witness it’s pretty shocking (in my experience) I was dumbfounded that some ass hat was trying to dictate absolute garbage & fabrication on my factual recounting. It can maybe come across like Dr Evan’s is being sassy but honestly the way they try to undermine you is wild. I think Evans did a good job today.

ZERO FUCKING shame that Ben Myers “MD”

 

[candyland_]

Why didn’t she switch the monitor on herself as soon as she seen it was off?
Why didn’t she make a complaint about it?
How did she know the baby was collapsing with no monitor?

A babies tube was dislodged on another occasion and there’s another case of her being found with a collapsing baby with the monitor off and seemingly doing nothing to call for help. What are the chances this happens twice and she discovers it on both occasions..

 

[F1Grid]

For anyone who was wondering how Dr E may come across, there's a video of him talking about measles here. Quite softly spoken, I can't imagine him coming across overly snappy.

I think this was a big day for the prosecution. They've caught LL in a lie, and I don't think there can be any doubt that Baby G's feed was messed with considering the definite aspirate before, the volume measured post vomit, and consistent witness reports of projectile vomit.

 

[DianaBanana]

The same reason they didn’t act on the blood test results that showed baby F had been purposely given insulin that wasn’t subscribed just because they happened to survive….the hospital was a shit show, there’s absolutely no excuse, and this could have all been stopped a lot sooner.

But that doesn’t take away from the fact, it’s increasingly looking as though these babies were killed on purpose.

 

[MmmB777]

I wouldn’t say one or more people thinking Letby is innocent is telling of anything at all. Shipman’s wife thought he was innocent as did many other people until he was found guilty.
I don’t know whether this nurse has genuinely only remembered something that significant now but I think that whether it’s true that the doctors apologised for it doesn’t mean that they did it. It means that at the time they thought that they must have and accepted they did.
Is this nurse the most compelling witness from the hospital so far for some people? Clearly is for BM as everyone else has had their recollections utterly scrutinised and insinuation has been that they have only remembered it this way now to fit Letby up.

 

[DianaBanana]

"There were some Post-it notes with closely written words on them, some of which included the names of some of her colleagues.

"On some of the notes were phrases such as “Why/how has this happened – what process has led to this current situation. What allegations have been made and by who? Do they have written evidence to support their comments?"

Will be interesting to see exactly what is written on those other post it notes.

Really interesting that she’s written ‘what allegations have been made’. That suggests to me she did NOT know she was suspected of murder before her arrest. Yet she’d written that she killed them on purpose on another note…

 

[White]

I thought today was very convincing. Very interesting what the two experts said, no doubt about that.

So her colleagues were even asking questions about her competence and realising all was not well by this stage. Despite before the trial, people saying her colleagues were shocked and supportive of her. Interesting that we now know from today's court reports, actually no all wasn't well or supportive!

 

[DianaBanana]

I don’t think it’s fair to describe somebody as snappy or arrogant just from reading written text either, unless any of us were actually there listening to him we have no idea of the tone in which he spoke.

I do understand we will all interpret things differently though.

 

[Lucyxxxx]

We're E and F IVF babies I'm sure I heard that? I suspect the triplets were as well. How sad is that 3 little miracles and you only come home with 1. Imagine whats its like for the living child. Should of had 2 best friends for life and instead all those special milestones and stuff he should be sharing with his brothers his all alone. Poor baby must feel it.

 

[candyland_]

There’s other cases of the monitors being off or silenced and she’s found with the baby. Once could be explained but multiple times? Plus a nurse watched her do nothing to call for help and Dr J saw her standing over a collapsing baby with no alarm or action being taken. She’s basically been caught in plain sight.

 

[Rippedjeanmaybe]

Poor baby g’s mum had such a traumatic birth. Giving birth on her own in a toilet which the baby landed in. Apparently the hospital (Arrowe park) hadn’t realised she was in labour.

can’t even imagine what theyve been through after going through ivf to conceive her as well.

a few of the babies probably will be ivf babies as it is a risk factor for premature birth.