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She was a band 5 nurse. They meant on the unit they had b2 staff and b4 nursery nurses. So she was senior from that aspect. They did word it a little funny.Joining late but very interested in this case.
I am an ICU Nurse, so knowing how an ICU works (adult/child/neonatal) I’m keen to understand how this all unfolded.
I did read that she was “in the second highest band”, so am I right in thinking she was a band 7? Ie. Senior Sister. Can anyone correct this please?
Gosh, a lot has come out today already hasn’t it? So sad to read. Having had a micro-preemie myself, they can deteriorate so quickly for what could be one of a number of reasons. But all this seems like they have some hefty evidence to back it all up.
Unless there were two (or more) people involved that were on alternate shifts (but always on when LL was) then it’s not looking good. Not that a trail like this would ever be good but you know what I mean.
Unless there were two (or more) people involved that were on alternate shifts (but always on when LL was) then it’s not looking good. Not that a trail like this would ever be good but you know what I mean.
I don’t believe the scapegoat theory, unfortunately I do believe she is guilty. I find it impossible to believe she could be innocent at this point there is far to much evidence against her
Great input. When you mention all medication is double checked in paediatric by 2 people what is the logistics of that? My son was in ICU from a newborn and had 3 ops as a newborn/5m and 7m. Always just had one nurse come around with her trolly and one nurse sorting out his morphine. Is the 2nd person check done somewhere away in the back ground? Just curious as to how it would work! In theory the nurses could have easily meddled with my sons medication and I would have been non the wiser so how easy would it have been to do something alone in the room? He was also given too much morphine and went into respiratory arrest and again as per your post I guess 2 people must have missed that the dose was wrong so is it that uncommon for the lack of attention to detail whilst on a busy shift?
I am an ICU Nurse, so knowing how an ICU works (adult/child/neonatal) I’m keen to understand how this all unfolded.
I did read that she was “in the second highest band”, so am I right in thinking she was a band 7? Ie. Senior Sister. Can anyone correct this please?
I have only skimmed the 1st thread, but did read some things such as “can a nurse administer insulin” “why wasn’t she being watched” etc. ICU Nurses are very autonomous, and work alone. Often 1nurse:1patient or 1nurse:2patients. But despite having our own patients, it is not uncommon (if your patient is stable) to help other Nurses out. Ie running a blood gas for someone or administering medication for someone else. So she’s either a super helpful Nurse (which if she was a band 7, she would be in charge most of the time and helping her staff) and her name is on everything she helped with and that’s the reason she’s all over everything, or she is a super devious, calculating Nurse.
In Nursing, all IV medication is double checked and in paediatrics ALL types of medication is double checked. So to inject something like insulin into a bag of medication/fluid that 2 Nurses have prepared together, would take sneaking off with it somewhere. We have cameras in our medication room and in ICU you often draw up medication at the patient’s bed space (as you live in that one bed space for the shift and never leave the patient alone), so I’m definitely intrigued by this one!
As for the Facebook thing… I will be frowned upon for this, but I have definitely looked up a patient on Facebook. Often the family tell you of a charity they have set up in the patients name/to help with rehab, or you see their story on the local news, and it is nice to have 1 quick look to see how they are getting on post their traumatic, life altering accident. But NEVER interact. Or constantly search and search. So this is something I’m also interested in.
So yeah, hi. Will be following along very closely.
Same here, I do this personally and professionally. From a professional safeguarding point of view, I’m looking for things that they often lie to us about such as boyfriends and weekend activities. It’s amazing what people post publicly and don’t realise.To be fair I’m incredibly nosy and will have a glance on Fb/insta/LinkedIn people I’ve met or friends of friends I hear about. I’d hate to be judged by my Facebook search
It differs trust to trust. Within my paediatric experience most trust have a single check list which can consist of oral pain relief, inhalers and eye drops. Oral morphine by law isn’t a controlled drug, it’s the only one out of the morphine family that isn’t. So it isn’t unheard of to be single checked. Most places have double check in place for intravenous drugs
I almost hope she is guilty simply because if not, the coverage of this trial will ruin her life.
I’d hate to be judged off my Google search history. I look up every crime I hear about. I probably flag as a person of interest by nowTo be fair I’m incredibly nosy and will have a glance on Fb/insta/LinkedIn people I’ve met or friends of friends I hear about. I’d hate to be judged by my Facebook search
Thanks for that. He had it through a cannula in his head. I wonder how he ended up having too much
we still never got the report back haha.
I was googling auschwitz last night reading it on wikipedia was interested in the history of it. A prosecutor could say I must be a nazi or somethingI’d hate to be judged off my Google search history. I look up every crime I hear about. I probably flag as a person of interest by now
.Thank you for this insight, really valuable! Especially interesting what to say about only being able to tamper with medicine if you took it away; but if someone is motivated enough could they possibly fly under the radar? Would you notice if someone was acting strangely if they did so with confidence rather than skulking around? I hope that makes sense what I’m asking!
I am an ICU Nurse, so knowing how an ICU works (adult/child/neonatal) I’m keen to understand how this all unfolded.
I did read that she was “in the second highest band”, so am I right in thinking she was a band 7? Ie. Senior Sister. Can anyone correct this please?
I have only skimmed the 1st thread, but did read some things such as “can a nurse administer insulin” “why wasn’t she being watched” etc. ICU Nurses are very autonomous, and work alone. Often 1nurse:1patient or 1nurse:2patients. But despite having our own patients, it is not uncommon (if your patient is stable) to help other Nurses out. Ie running a blood gas for someone or administering medication for someone else. So she’s either a super helpful Nurse (which if she was a band 7, she would be in charge most of the time and helping her staff) and her name is on everything she helped with and that’s the reason she’s all over everything, or she is a super devious, calculating Nurse.
In Nursing, all IV medication is double checked and in paediatrics ALL types of medication is double checked. So to inject something like insulin into a bag of medication/fluid that 2 Nurses have prepared together, would take sneaking off with it somewhere. We have cameras in our medication room and in ICU you often draw up medication at the patient’s bed space (as you live in that one bed space for the shift and never leave the patient alone), so I’m definitely intrigued by this one!
As for the Facebook thing… I will be frowned upon for this, but I have definitely looked up a patient on Facebook. Often the family tell you of a charity they have set up in the patients name/to help with rehab, or you see their story on the local news, and it is nice to have 1 quick look to see how they are getting on post their traumatic, life altering accident. But NEVER interact. Or constantly search and search. So this is something I’m also interested in.
So yeah, hi. Will be following along very closely.
I don’t know how NHS bands work but if it’s comparable to civil service, I assumed she was one away from the top pay rate in her band rather than a senior nurse? And if moving up the pay scales is based on length of service then she may have been the most senior/well paid nurse in her band on the department but working under nurses/sisters in a more senior role?
I highly doubt she was a ward manager at the age of 25. She had 3 years experience assuming she graduated at age of 21 she would have been at most a charge nurse a 6 unlikely I think she was a staff nurse. The prosecution didn't word that correctly. That throws up flags for me but then the jury probably won't know nursing hierarchy, I'm guessing the defence will rebuff this later on.
If she's acquitted she will get an absolutely whopping payout for the outrageous amount of time she's been held in prison without trial.
I'm open minded at this point as we've only heard the prosecutions opening statement and they've already ballsed up in causing total confustion with regards to her grading/seniority.
It's going to be incredibly hard for them to 'prove beyond reasonable doubt' when from what I can gather it took the investigators a number of years to decide that these cases were even murder cases in the first place, and even longer to gather enough evidence to charge her. I don't understand how at this point there isn't instant doubt in anybodies mind.
I'm open minded at this point as we've only heard the prosecutions opening statement and they've already ballsed up in causing total confustion with regards to her grading/seniority.
It's going to be incredibly hard for them to 'prove beyond reasonable doubt' when from what I can gather it took the investigators a number of years to decide that these cases were even murder cases in the first place, and even longer to gather enough evidence to charge her. I don't understand how at this point there isn't instant doubt in anybodies mind.
So a 6 month trial - does that mean every weekday for 6th months or…? Don’t think I can keep up with the speed of this thread for 6 months every day 
but v invested now
but v invested now
And this is exactly why reporting restrictions are in place.
Not impossible, I know people who have climbed the ladder very quickly. Some people are just made for it.. and in some trusts if their area is failing sometimes there is no one to step up so there are some young inexperienced managers out there. And I could be wrong but are bands different for children nurses and midwives?
It is worded strangely re her banding though.
I think neonatal nurses are band 5 but then if they do extra critical care nursing then band 6?
Neonatal is 3 levels. Critical care, high dependency and special care.
Im going to ask for a wiki page, just for links to live reporting and facts that come out of court. These threads are going to be so fast moving.
And you know this for definite? No. Nobody does. Yes it's looking like they've got some VERY strong evidence against her but until convicted, she's innocent until proven guilty. That's what this trial is for.
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