Lucy Letby Case #2

[Polythene Pam]

I think her defence will just be she didn’t do it and she can’t explain how it happened. She doesn’t need to provide an alternative theory, it’s up to the prosecution to prove she did it.

I agree. We have seen that already re the Facebook searches where she said she doesn't remember but if that's what they found then she accepts she did. Not offering any other explanation.
I would also hate to be judged on my internet history, without context these things can look very strange. I won't say I've never searched for a random person I've encountered, I'm a nosey begger.

 

[super grateful]

Thanks, Luckily it was noticed quickly and emergency buzzer was pulled which is why I was shocked it all went unnoticed it is true. I would think if it was just an accident it would be something you learn of and don’t make the mistake again. Do you think there is the possibility that she simply was just incompetent at her job?

I’m glad! And yes definitely, I’ve made mistakes before that still flash in my mind when carrying out the task now and remind me to be extra cautious (again, nothing life threatening, just stuff like not securely fastening a tube and then it migrating out or not documenting something correctly and it causing confusion - mistakes stick with you and you learn from them, it’s how you become experienced).

Gosh that’s a hard one. I think, in my own unit anyway, the incompetent staff are well known… And if someone is cocky, arrogant or appears to have all their tit together, they’re one to watch too! Being so incompetent and slipping under the radar would take a great amount of personality altering. Does that make sense? It’s been a long day ha!

 

[NH14]

The number of victims - each case needs to be presented on its own merits. It's 7 murder trials and 10 attempted murder trials all at once.

thank you , that makes sense x

 

[Tofino]

Have to remember that every witness the prosecution present, the defence get a chance to cross examine. I remember with Star and Arthur they had multiple medical experts. I’m sure it will be the same here yet they have 22 charges / incidents to go through.
Plus defence witnesses can be cross examined by the prosecution. Some witnesses were questioned for a day or more if I remember rightly (or was that just the defendants).
Star and Arthur I think were both around six weeks and that is just one child.
It’s really not inconceivable that it could take six months for so many victims.

 

[super grateful]

The number of victims - each case needs to be presented on its own merits. It's 7 murder trials and 10 attempted murder trials all at once.

Hearing it like that just makes it sound so much more horrific doesn’t it.

 

[maytoseptember]

I’m guessing they expect it to take so long because they’ll need to call a lot of witnesses. Colleagues of Letby (I’m guessing these are the people who will remain anonymous?), expert witnesses, etc?

 

[dustyrhodes]

For me Day 1 my two biggest issues are

I agree. We have seen that already re the Facebook searches where she said she doesn't remember but if that's what they found then she accepts she did. Not offering any other explanation.
I would also hate to be judged on my internet history, without context these things can look very strange. I won't say I've never searched for a random person I've encountered, I'm a nosey begger.

Honestly I think this is going to have a major impact on the jury.

 

[Multi-21]

Would the parents be called as witnesses?

 

[stardust1]

I’m glad! And yes definitely, I’ve made mistakes before that still flash in my mind when carrying out the task now and remind me to be extra cautious (again, nothing life threatening, just stuff like not securely fastening a tube and then it migrating out or not documenting something correctly and it causing confusion - mistakes stick with you and you learn from them, it’s how you become experienced).

Gosh that’s a hard one. I think, in my own unit anyway, the incompetent staff are well known… And if someone is cocky, arrogant or appears to have all their tit together, they’re one to watch too! Being so incompetent and slipping under the radar would take a great amount of personality altering. Does that make sense? It’s been a long day ha!

yes perfect sense, I don’t work in health care but it is obvious at work who aren’t very competent. I do wonder if the other nurses ever had any concerns at the time. I’d probably imagine they wouldn’t want to say too much incase they get thrown under the bus too. If you noticed someone was making multiple mistAkes would that generally get reported/documented?

 

[Tangerine Cat]

Joining late but very interested in this case.

I am an ICU Nurse, so knowing how an ICU works (adult/child/neonatal) I’m keen to understand how this all unfolded.

I did read that she was “in the second highest band”, so am I right in thinking she was a band 7? Ie. Senior Sister. Can anyone correct this please?

I have only skimmed the 1st thread, but did read some things such as “can a nurse administer insulin” “why wasn’t she being watched” etc. ICU Nurses are very autonomous, and work alone. Often 1nurse:1patient or 1nurse:2patients. But despite having our own patients, it is not uncommon (if your patient is stable) to help other Nurses out. Ie running a blood gas for someone or administering medication for someone else. So she’s either a super helpful Nurse (which if she was a band 7, she would be in charge most of the time and helping her staff) and her name is on everything she helped with and that’s the reason she’s all over everything, or she is a super devious, calculating Nurse.

In Nursing, all IV medication is double checked and in paediatrics ALL types of medication is double checked. So to inject something like insulin into a bag of medication/fluid that 2 Nurses have prepared together, would take sneaking off with it somewhere. We have cameras in our medication room and in ICU you often draw up medication at the patient’s bed space (as you live in that one bed space for the shift and never leave the patient alone), so I’m definitely intrigued by this one!

As for the Facebook thing… I will be frowned upon for this, but I have definitely looked up a patient on Facebook. Often the family tell you of a charity they have set up in the patients name/to help with rehab, or you see their story on the local news, and it is nice to have 1 quick look to see how they are getting on post their traumatic, life altering accident. But NEVER interact. Or constantly search and search. So this is something I’m also interested in.

So yeah, hi. Will be following along very closely.

Please stick around here and explain things to us that we don’t understand the practicalities of! ETA, that goes for anyone else here in the same sector.

I was going to ask if there were cameras in these places, maybe they’ve caught something on them? Could she get a small syringe of insulin and keep it in her pocket ready to administer? Perhaps inject it into the bag/tube itself somehow or even into a cannula on the baby?

if they’re saying she injected some babies with air then I’m guessing an injection site wasn't clearly observed on the babies skin either? Wouldn’t you expect it to be though? The skin on these tiny babies can be paper thin.

I've read up a lot on Marilyn Monroe, the first job of the pathologist was to go over her skin with a magnifying glass looking for an injection site for an overdose that could have been administered to her. So it is done.

As for Facebook, surely we could all be hung out to dry for our internet history even when innocent. My relative works in the media and the first thing journalists do now is look up people on social media, where do you think half the photos come from in some articles?

If you don’t want anyone snooping on you for gods sake lock down your social media!

I’ve been waiting for this case to start for AGES purely because I can’t believe someone could harm babies, especially a female nurse. It’s just beggars belief.

I hope she is guilty because I can’t imagine what she’s going through if she’s innocent. just Imagine that, horrifying

 

[crumpets2]

definitely always one for us. I am actually quite shocked everyone doesn’t follow the same rule book. I’d have thought that would make life a bit easier for everyone but maybe not?

Oh okay, I really thought everywhere did 2 nurses for bedside checks for CDs! It blows my mind how different places can be, I recently went to a trust that didn’t require a second check for IVs it did not sit right with me.

 

[Tangerine Cat]

Would the parents be called as witnesses?

Of course, anyone could if they witnessed something or the police think they did

For me Day 1 my two biggest issues are

Honestly I think this is going to have a major impact on the jury.

Not sure it would me. It’s the evidence towards the murder and harm of all those babies that’s crucial.

 

[Upintheair83]

The Facebook thing doesn’t make her look great. There is no reason to stalk the parents of the dead children. It’s sick to be honest.

The paperwork can be explained away easily I think. If she wanted to hide something surely she would’ve destroyed it when she knew the police were on her tail. Maybe she picked it up accidentally when it was under a folder or other paperwork she needed to take home. If it comes out that she had the handover sheet of EVERY baby who died/nearly died then that would be alarm bell ringing territory for me.

I agree, she's absolutely beyond sick to revel in someone elses pain. If im honest i cant get my head around it if true, its too evil.
But she may have been retained the handover sheet as like a 'memory' or trophy. Many serial killers (and this is what she is, if guilty) keep trophies of their victims and so maybe there was abit of this at play? Just because she didn't hide it doesn't mean it can be explained away. If that makes sense?

 

[stardust1]

Oh okay, I really thought everywhere did 2 nurses for bedside checks for CDs! It blows my mind how different places can be, I recently went to a trust that didn’t require a second check for IVs it did not sit right with me.

I Used to see no one else except the 1 nurse 7am-7pm and then a new one would come in from 8pm. Maybe they checked outside of the room?I‘d like to hope so but it now has me thinking about how they ended up giving my son too much morphine and would it actually have been very easy for them
To do something on purpose.

 

[Tangerine Cat]

Thai may be a stupid question but why do they expect the trial to take so long ? They have been working on it behind the scenes for years

Because there are so many victims to go though and you will hear evidence towards the person who harmed them to be LL…… then the defence begins which will try to pick it all apart.

 

[super grateful]

Please stick around here and explain things to us that we don’t understand the practicalities of! ETA, that goes for anyone else here in the same sector.

I was going to ask if there were cameras in these places, maybe they’ve caught something on them? Could she get a small syringe of insulin and keep it in her pocket ready to administer? Perhaps inject it into the bag/tube itself somehow or even into a cannula on the baby?

if they’re saying she injected some babies with air then I’m guessing an injection site wasn't clearly observed on the babies skin either? Wouldn’t you expect it to be though? The skin on these tiny babies can be paper thin.

I've read up a lot on Marilyn Monroe, the first job of the pathologist was to go over her skin with a magnifying glass looking for an injection site for an overdose that could have been administered to her. So it is done.

As for Facebook, surely we could all be hung out to dry for our internet history even when innocent. My relative works in the media and the first thing journalists do now is look up people on social media, where do you think half the photos come from in some articles?

If you don’t want anyone snooping on you for gods sake lock down your social media!

I’ve been waiting for this case to start for AGES purely because I can’t believe someone could harm babies, especially a female nurse. It’s just beggars belief.

I hope she is guilty because I can’t imagine what she’s going through if she’s innocent. just Imagine that, horrifying

I’ll try my best!

That’s possible. However, insulin usually comes in a small vial that is kept in the fridge. In my trust, the fridge is locked and we do drug stock every day which includes noting how much is left in the vial. You use a syringe to take from the vial, so you’d have to be quick to unlock the fridge, draw up a syringe, then pop it back again. Also we keep our keys with a Nurse not in a locker or something, so there is accountability with that too.

In another trust I do agency in, ALL of their drugs are locked in an electric cabinet that requires fingerprint access. Counts how much is used, for which patient, at what time, by which Nurse. If £ in the NHS wasn’t a concern, this is the way forward! Takes time and is a faff, but very useful.

As for injecting air, it could maybe be through a line already in place rather than via skin with a needle! Easily done if you aren’t careful, hence why you see people flicking syringes and checking all the air is gone before administering anything. Guess a small syringe of air would be a quick, sneaky way to do it. (Which now makes anyone looking at my internet history think I sound dodgy!)

 

[crumpets2]

I Used to see no one else except the 1 nurse 7am-7pm and then a new one would come in from 8pm. Maybe they checked outside of the room?I‘d like to hope so but it now has me thinking about how they ended up giving my son too much morphine and would it actually have been very easy for them
To do something on purpose.

They could well of checked outside the room. I’m sorry to hear what happened with your son x

 

[super grateful]

yes perfect sense, I don’t work in health care but it is obvious at work who aren’t very competent. I do wonder if the other nurses ever had any concerns at the time. I’d probably imagine they wouldn’t want to say too much incase they get thrown under the bus too. If you noticed someone was making multiple mistAkes would that generally get reported/documented?

Oh yeah - incident reporting is rife in the NHS! It’s not meant to be a blame game but is treated as one.

 

[lattenosugar]

This is what I was referring to in an earlier comment re: nurse wrongly accused. Stepping hill hospital

Nurse wrongly accused of Stepping Hill murders: 'I was chewed up and spat out'

In her first ever newspaper interview, the innocent woman locked up and dubbed 'The Angel of Death' tells the Sunday People how she is trying to rebuild her life

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Mrspowell]

Ok, want to add my two pence worth as I’ve had a idea rattling in my head as to a motive. When something as awful as this happens we always question why. To look at she looks like she couldn’t possibly Kill babies.

I have worked in the nhs for 10 years, 5 in paeds. My Mum is a very experienced neonatal nurse and midwife. I also spent several weeks in neonatal icu with my own child.

I wonder if Lucy had/has a ‘god complex’. I heard of this before but can’t remember now where. So NOT ALL but it is common for a baby to need neonatal input due to the mothers behaviour in pregnancy (drinking, smoking, drugs) general neglect. My mum often talks about looking after these babies with so much love and then knowingly discharging them to unfit homes. Social services are involved that kind of thing. I saw it myself many times, families too busy outside smoking, coming in with all their friends showing them the baby without seemingly understanding the seriousness of the situation. Uneducated families unable to properly care for their new baby. Messy family lives, unfit living conditions, I am not being judgemental, it’s just what I and my mother have seen so much with our own eyes. So much more I could say but I’m hoping you get my gist to the sort of thing. Perhaps Lucy was a very Judgemental person?

did Lucy take it upon herself to ‘save’ these babies from a life she deemed unfit? Like a god complex. Researching them on Facebook to see if they were ‘good enough’? Overly attached to these babies and seeing it as her only way to stop them going to live those lives?
Hoping someone understands that waffle and no one takes offence. Just had to get it off my chest