Lucy Letby Case #19

[Notworthy]

The specialist could interpret them. And advised that they send the bloods for further analysis, the hospital didn’t do this. That specialist doesn’t work for the hospital though. What the doctors who requested the bloods did with the results after is down to them, not the facility that actually tested the blood. I said this back along there should be some sort of multi agency safe guarding framework in place when a testing facility finds something suspicious, and they should have a duty to see what went on after and do a follow up.

Surely the specialist would know that these results could only happen if the baby was deliberately injected with insulin though and would highlight that in their report.

 

[slingo16]

So you don’t believe she perpetrated the first attack?
Is that why you’re fixed on 100 days having no relevance?

Just to clarify that we didn’t hear about this 100 day stuff in the opening statement ( I don’t think ) therefore something similar could occur later that ties this in and that would make me change my mind but currently, I think she could well be guilty of the later two attacks as they fit somewhat with the overall picture, I’ll go as far as to say I think they are making the first incident fit in just so they can mention the 100th day and paint a picture of calculation. So in a nutshell no I don’t think the first attack is an attack at all

 

[tay65]

Yeah and it doesnt mean they had any assistance to have her or anything, just could have worked out that way for them.


I'm in my early 30's and having my 3rd and I am still one of the youngest in the waiting rooms.

It's simply too unaffordable, this will be my last, childcare cost make having any more just impossible.

Maybe they weren't very young when they met and I think her dad is a lot older than her mum. I think the mum was in her 30s but the dad was in his 40s when she was born so the mum wasn't particularly old.

 

[Daisydunn15]

o wow. I’m not sure what this means if no other baby was receiving TPN bags that night, though it seems significant.
However, it still seems ‘off’ to me that she would have contaminated all the bags in the fridge. Not saying she wouldn’t, but what I can’t seem to ignore is if all bags were contaminated by letby prior to her leaving how come no other baby came into contact with these insulin contaminated bags in the following days ?
Or is it that these bags have a shelf life ? How long would they be stored for before they are thrown out ? Is it possible that Baby F was the only baby on the ward receiving TPN before they were disposed of? Anyone know if this is possible.

Just playing catch up but this is the bit I can't get my head around. The TPN was supposed to run for another 40hr, why would she contaminate the stock bag? And if she did was it just 1, and that happened to be the one they used or was it all of them and lots of babies had insulin? I know he was the only baby on TPN that night but they seem to be used frequently otherwise they wouldn't need so many in stock, I'm sure there's been a few babies in this case on TPN at various points.

 

[housebythesea]

"The blood gases had raised metabolic acidosis."
This was in the reports yesterday
A symptom of this is vomiting, so I expect at some point we might hear this referred to, seeing as the blood tests were already showing an explanation for the vomiting which didn't depend on overfeeding or any outside interference

 

[slingo16]

I know you put it in quotes but I do want to point out that things like profiling and the 'rules' of how killers act are really not that reliable, generally. They're actually quite controversial due to mixed results. Figuring out what's 'normal' for people who are inherently abnormal is quite a task.

Good example here, it's a general trend that killers get 'more efficient' over time, much like most people practicing a skill. But contextually....this is a hospital. Being messy and using various methods *is* more efficient in a hospital if you want to remain undetected. So whether this is 'in character' or 'out of character' for a serial killer is entirely up to your own point of view.

I disagree. I think the rules are actually generally very reliable, that’s why there are these rules in the first place.

I’m only referring to the efficiency of her ability to successfully murder a child, the charges make it look like she got worse at it and if ever efficiency would improve it would be a case like this with the most vulnerable victims possible imo, for some context over a 10 month period she attempts 15 ?murders and succeeds just once this is from august to June btw. If you compare that to the first two months of the case where she kills on 4 out of 5 attempts. I can’t accept that she somehow got worse on purpose to deflect the suspicions

 

[DianaBanana]

We haven’t heard any details of what happened yet. There’ll be more to come I’m sure

 

[Notworthy]

No because I wasn’t there and have no medical background.

Do you think it’s impossible that the ward didn’t work to its highest standard and LL could be killing babies?

At the moment I think this ward was run so badly that if someone was murdering babies, it's going to be incredibly difficult to get a conviction. Still lots of testimony to come from both sides.

 

[housebythesea]

Surely the specialist would know that these results could only happen if the baby was deliberately injected with insulin though and would highlight that in their report.

They did

I gotta agree. I’m dipping into most threads myself and caught all that, but even with a wiki we still have to tread over old ground sometimes. If there are 30 pages since I’ve last looked since the breakfast table, then I’ve defo not got the time to read 30 pages myself.

Well, i feel for that jury I tell you. They won’t want to hear the words embolus or tpn bag again after April.

Also is it too late to ask what a tpn bag even is something something nutrients?

edit thanks to Google :Total parenteral nutrition (TPN) is a method of feeding that bypasses the gastrointestinal tract. Fluids are given into a vein to provide most of the nutrients the body needs. The method is used when a person cannot or should not receive feedings or fluids by mouth.

If you mean what does TPN stand for, it's Total Parenteral Nutrition. It is basically a liquid form of all the nutrients required, given via the parenteral route, ie via a vein, thus bypassing the gastrointestinal tract.

 

[Daisydunn15]

Can anyone with experience offer any explanation of the "designated nurse" thing? I'm finding it quite confusing. Is it the same as the "named nurse" system which used to operate? Because I recall being in hospital for 10 days and never even meeting my named nurse. I have family who nurse in ITU and they are generally one nurse to one bed, but obviously someone has to cover for breaks etc, but that's adults, so it's not really comparable. Plus why would someone be designated to care for babies which were in different rooms? Doesn't that make it much more complicated? You can't be in two places at the same time!

Yeah you're just the go-to for that patient on the day. You'd do liaising with families/other services, make sure meds were done, make sure any other care was done but you don't necessarily need to be the one to do it. You only need to be in the same room if they're on 1:1 but even then someone else can take over. I'm pretty sure it came from the Francis report to improve accountability and so patients know who to ask for help.

 

[Lucyxxxx]

Lucy Letby - the Summer Spellman of the medical world.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

I know - I could not believe it when I read it. Completely and utterly inappropriate, but I don't think any action was taken against her at the time, shockingly!

Well that's just as mental!! It is not that long ago, that kind of behaviour was never okay!!

 

[slingo16]

The Defences, and LL, have admitted that both insulin poisonings are deliberate foul play, it’s in the agreed statement.
The defence can only suggest that someone else must have done it and/or there is insignificant evidence to it pointing to LL.

Where have the defence conceded this? Can you screenshot it because I’ve never seen this?

 

[Daisydunn15]

The investigation has been funded for a few more years tho. I think they’ve just focused on this period of time before the investigation started and further charges may come after this trial.

Maybe but it seems odd they'll they'd put so much more money into it when she could be found NG at the end of this trial which would surely influence other charges.

 

[Here for gossip]

Can u watch the case?

 

[slingo16]

It's relevant because Baby G was born at 23 weeks.
Viability is legally classed at a baby born at 24 weeks gestation, which is also the legal abortion limit. Legally when Baby G was born the hospital didn't have to intervene and save her, but they did. She made it through 100 days, which for any baby is a massive achievement but for a baby who was born outside the "medical guidelines" is amazing.
It will always be relevant, she lived for 100 days until a monster deemed her life unworthy, and changed her whole entire future.

I get why the age of the child makes her less likely to encounter complications but my question is why is the 100th day deemed more significant than the 114th day surely an extra two weeks of life fan only be a good thing for her chances no?

 

[Daisydunn15]

What are your other 1st thoughts? Where do I hide this syringe? Who's next? Does he/she have a twin?

Do you go home and Google the grieving family and then scribble I did this on purpose?

Your actions are your reflections of practice. Are hers? Are they really?

I suppose none of us really know what was going through her head when she wrote the note, we're all speculating but that's my take on it

 

[Deeznutslol]

I’m confused. So there was another nurse (not lucy) who gave the baby double feeds and made him vomit??

 

[Treesy19]

I’m confused about amounts now. When my (full term) son was briefly in SCBU, they ferried a couple of 1ml syringes of my bm to him. 45mls sounds a lot to a small baby who’d only just reached her real due date no?

 

[slingo16]

There are procedures in place that are carried out before a feed, this has been discussed in court.
A nurse wouldn't make that mistake.

Are we really saying nurses can’t make mistakes? Come on now, I’m sure there’s protocol for a lot of things in life and mistake still happen in all sorts of professions, just a hypothetical scenario I’m not any sort of expert but given the retrospective taking of notes I think it’s possible for feeds to not be documented and done twice accidentally. Again not saying that’s what I think happened just a scenario off the top of my head I’m sure there are millions of way a mistake like that could happen