Lucy Letby Case #19

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

Haha, think that was me talking about the cute aggression theory. Tbh back then, I too was just speculating and trying to find a reason. Now I realise I haven't a clue why she does what she does.

Still cute aggression is a fascinating theory in general.

Yes!! "cute aggression" thats it!! Thank you

Yeah I don't think it is the explanation here either but it seems more plausible to me now than it did back then!!

 

[Treesy19]

Keen to hear from other neonatal nurses on here : do you text loads outside of work about loads of babies?

 

[I’mThankyou_]

Curious to see what your replies are. I know it is a hard question to answer without actually going through it, but if you were accused of the same thing and hand on heart knew you were innocent but legal advice was not to give evidence, what would you do? I really think if I was innocent I’d not be able to keep quiet protesting my innocence from the start.

does anyone know if Rebecca Leighton gave evidence?

She never made it to court

 

[candyland_]

Yeah I feel like he’s going to bring his defence in for both the insulin babies when we hear the second one. That’s why he’s not done much cross here. He did say he would cross examine one of the experts later & not at this time didn’t he?

Yes I think so. I think he should have still made an effort separately. Baby L had contaminated dextrose so slightly different to the tpn confusion.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

Ok so both the CS and the Dailymail are reporting the prosecution are suggesting there were infact two tpn bags contaminated with insulin, based on what Bohin said when giving evidence today; the practice for a long line replacement, is for the tpn also to be changed, so they believe there were two bags contaminated, one bespoke and one stock. The stock one was kept in fridge next to insulin . The only child on unit receiving tpn that night was F, so if LL also contaminated the stock bag, then she knew that F would definitely be the only baby to receive it that night. Link to full DM article here: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/p...urse-received-two-bags-contaminated-feed.html

And the only baby receiving tpn that night:

View attachment 1772111

That explains a lot!
It would be the insulin that would be given in the 50ml syringe driver.

I wonder what volume of fluid would be in a normal neonatal TPN bag. Anyone know?
Such hideous injuries could have been inflicted on that baby! He’s very lucky to have survived unscathed.

 

[Blockedbyadmin]

It’s reporting as baby was fed at 2 by milk and meds and then vomited (I’ve a feeling over fed accidentally by her nurse) and then transferred to Lucifer Lucy who went on to do her evil works after seeing she wouldn’t be caught out because prev nurse caused the vomit

 

[Treesy19]

I presume there have been no similar unexplainable collapses and unexpected deaths on that ward since her removal….

 

[slingo16]

Are you just speculating or do your thoughts on this actually affect your opinion on whether you think she is guilty or not?

I am interested in what her motive might be, why she chose who she did and why she changed methods, but I’m not inside her mind, and I’m not a professional profiler, so it remains just a mild interest. I wouldn’t let it influence my thoughts on guilt though.

I think the things I identified are relevant to the big picture, to make an extreme example if later we hear 3 different nurses saw her administer air ( obviously we’re not going to hear that) then the lack of escalation and drop in efficiency doesn’t really matter,

as of now it doesn’t fit together properly for the reasons I mentioned before, but again we have no idea about the other 10 deaths that we’ve discussed so they could fill the gaps and potentially show escalation and maybe even show her getting better at it

I do understand as well that it’s perfectly possible that she is an exception to the “rules” of being a serial killer. She’s a women to start with so she’s already statistically an exception,

I’m definitely speculating to a degree because I don’t have all the facts, but i think we all are really, and to actually answer your question (finally lol) I don’t think these points will effect my opinion until I’ve heard all the evidence, right now there’s no context ( other deaths and goings on) to draw an iinformed opinion from

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

I don’t think a 70 year old having a 32 year old daughter is strange.. People have babies in their mid 30s to 40s. My best friend is 30 and his parents are in their early 70s.

Honestly it wasn't a dig just my opinion. Most people who have that big an age gap now have more than one child, as in they have that age gap with their 3rd or 4th, not their 1st.

It would be uncommon 30 plus years ago to wait until your 40's to have your first child. Completely different to now when it would be quite common.

 

[friedeggontoast]

This has maybe been answered already as I’m still behind, it’s been reported today about ivf, and LL said something in police interview about A&B being wanted/tried for, and something along the lines of it had been a difficult journey for mum to have finally got A&B. Rest is speculation though

I know you’ve not caught up so you won’t have seen my follow up post but I was replying to the OP’s question about LL having IVF herself not about the babies xx

 

[avabella]

Am I understanding correctly - baby was fed by designated nurse at 2am and began to vomit by 2.15?

 

[housebythesea]

It sorta feels like they were doing everything to ensure they didn't get sued for unfair dismissal.

Which just sorta boggles my mind that that was even a concern when they were looking at the real possibility that she was murdering babies!!

It wasn't like they thought she was just nicking drugs from the cabinet, surely the babies lives should have been given more priority over any potential unfounded harm to Letbys career!??

Absolutely this! If it was a genuine concern, why did they not call the police in at that stage?

 

[candyland_]

I think they have looked already into where she’s previously done training. And it looks like operation Hummingbird is continuing the investigation into 2025, so I would hope that means they are looking intensely into everywhere LL has been


Yes the shift leader (that LL was supposed to be sat with) is different from the nurse that was the designated one for G that went on her hour long break. The shift leader is the one that says she was with LL when alarm sounded, but prosecution say that shift leader is mistaken and they can show this to be the case. The nurse that testified today is one that can’t be named, the shift leader has been named. And very good point it’s unlikely that 3 nurses would just be sat on breaks at the same time

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[dual2099]

Sounds like they only do 3 days a week. I’m guessing it’s a long trial. So they can’t be on it all the time.

 

[Appletiser]

Interesting read :- https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/193432/risk-brain-damage-premature-babies-reduce/amp/


that quote gave me chills …

 

[MrsHinchBarmyArmy]

I re-read yesterday's reporting and they did specify in the notes it was expressed milk. Missed that.

At 2am, the designated nurse records observations for Child G and a neonatal feeding chart records this is Child G's 100th day since birth.

She received 45mls of milk via the nasogastric tube, with 'ph4' aspirates recorded. Child G was noted to be 'asleep' at this stage.

The milk was expressed breast milk, plus fortifier and Gaviscon.

Ahhh ok.

I thunk I was thinking more for the extra feed the baby has supposedly been fed by LL.

How would they know from the vomit if that was EBM? They wouldn't be able to tell surely?

 

[housebythesea]

Exactly this, it’s worrying to be honest.

I agree with you both.
If you took any of these cases in isolation, there would be extremely scant evidence to bring a case against anyone, frankly, at least not a case built on causing deliberate harm. I am concerned about some of this just being a case of confirmation bias.

 

[housebythesea]

I believe now she is thoasand percent guilty
baby doing really well no issues from other nurses suddenly letby takes over and baby collapses !!!!

she’s a monster

Actually, I think she was transferred to LL AFTER she collapsed, according to the reporting from the court today

 

[Rippedjeanmaybe]

ooh where did you hear this? That’s interesting

it was on the Mail podcast, I think it might have been on one of
the 1-3rd episodes, not too sure which one.

 

[slingo16]

It is a medical fact though. The massively high insulin level and low c-peptide (in the proven absence of very rare medical conditions) make it a medical fact. It simply is and BM cannot argue against this, he just can’t, and he knows it.
He’s going to have to come up with another defence ie it wasn’t LL, you can’t prove it was.

But then it doesn’t make sense as to why nothing was done at the time, it seems a really obvious conclusion to reach after the test. As I’ve said to another poster. This has to have been explained one way or another at the time