Lucy Letby Case #19

[Lucyxxxx]

I'm a bit sensitive bc I was misdiagnosed not saying don't mention it if it's officially confirmed but the whole "nobody with BPD should be near that ward" thing is vile.

Yeah that's out of order. I hear ya.

 

[Windowtothewall]

No not necessarily. This baby was 100 days old when the first incident happened. So near 3 months. 45mls is roughly 1-2 ounces and all feeds in NICU tend to be calculated on baby's weight and how much they need to have in mls for their weight.

Also, thinking of the "spare breast milk" shout, you maybe right with this. But don't forget, formula milk in NICU is easily accessible and probably easier to "steal" if you're going to do something like this. Plus, baby may not have been able to digest it properly causing even more of an issue if the baby has been used to breast milk......just a thought x

I re-read yesterday's reporting and they did specify in the notes it was expressed milk. Missed that.

At 2am, the designated nurse records observations for Child G and a neonatal feeding chart records this is Child G's 100th day since birth.

She received 45mls of milk via the nasogastric tube, with 'ph4' aspirates recorded. Child G was noted to be 'asleep' at this stage.

The milk was expressed breast milk, plus fortifier and Gaviscon.

 

[od12839]

I’ve seen this previously and I don’t think it’s a concession of anything, I thought there was something new, that confirmed the defence aren’t questioning foul play.

It's brought up a couple of pages back, the witness claims insulin was added to the TPN and the defence has no questions. (These are from today).

 

[PatienceImpatient]

I shall forthwith call her Lucifer

Lucy, Lucifer…

coincidence?

i think not

 

[stardust1]

I’m sure there’s a joke/pun to be found in here somewhere

I have asked him to confirm and he still maintains the same story

 

[OldBlondie]

o wow. I’m not sure what this means if no other baby was receiving TPN bags that night, though it seems significant.
However, it still seems ‘off’ to me that she would have contaminated all the bags in the fridge. Not saying she wouldn’t, but what I can’t seem to ignore is if all bags were contaminated by letby prior to her leaving how come no other baby came into contact with these insulin contaminated bags in the following days ?
Or is it that these bags have a shelf life ? How long would they be stored for before they are thrown out ? Is it possible that Baby F was the only baby on the ward receiving TPN before they were disposed of? Anyone know if this is possible.

I do understand that people want full details to make sense of it. But unless we get extra info In podcast on Monday about this particular bit, I think we are just going to have to accept we aren’t going to get any more concrete info on it.

And as it hasn’t been deemed relevant, or to have had any impact/different outcome by either the prosecution or defence. I really don’t think we should get wrapped up in the smaller details of whether there were two bags or not. I think it’s going to derail again if we let it.

If it meant anything of significance I could fully understand a big discussion around it, but I think it’s just going to over complicate things. If there was a 2nd bag contaminated then it would be kept in fridge next to insulin, so probably very easy enough to contaminate, we know no other baby on unit was getting tpn at this time, so we know if this is the case LL would still know for sure that it would be F only that would receive contaminated bag.

I don’t think they know for sure though as we don’t know tpn was deffo changed, just that it should have been. But either way I really don’t think it’s worth a massive going round in circles discussion as even BM has not brought any issue up with it, and you can bet your bottom dollar he would have done if he thought it made any difference. Hopefully we’ll get more in podcast to clarify, but I really don’t think we should get caught up in the 2nd bag or not discussion, that is just my opinion though just to disclaimer it

 

[just_nicole]

@slingo16

"Using syringes to inject air? No. Tampering with bags of fluid - or poisoning them? No. Physically assaulting children? Smothering them?
Adding as an add on from @candyland_ screenshot as its all I could find extra where the insulin is mentioned.

That's from the main argument where he was speaking about his areas of defence before it splits off into individual children.
No clue where he is going with it aside from the second bag issues that pp's have brought up in regards to access,

Does he mean just not LL? Does he have another explanation? Will he just try to prove LL couldn't of done it? Focus on how it wasn't flagged at the time as malicious? Its very much up in the air for me, but doesn't read like he's conceded it

 

[OldBlondie]

Am I understanding correctly - baby was fed by designated nurse at 2am and began to vomit by 2.15?

I thought the prosecution are suggesting it was LL that caused the large vomit (and the bleeding). Then ironically baby G was transferred into LL’s care after she’d caused the incident

They are saying it was LL that caused original incident:

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

View attachment 1773734
I’m assuming they last two months unless they are bespoke bags. She could have known the stock bag would be used at some point and contaminated it once she knew there was a baby having small amounts of insulin. She is all over other babies interfering with their care so maybe she poisoned it when she found out a baby needed a small dose.

Oh good theory!! Thanks @candyland_

 

[housebythesea]

Suspected sepsis isn’t sepsis.
Inflammatory markers can be raised for numerous reasons.
She was back to breathing, unassisted, in air in a week.
She was OK for a couple of weeks until…back in LL’s ‘care’.

Inflammatory markers can, yes - but you would need to know which markers were elevated. CRP - yeah, maybe inflammatory, although in a baby it would normally indicate infection. WBC raised - almost certainly infection.
At the very least it casts doubt on the theory that she was poorly because she was attacked

 

[Blockedbyadmin]

People asking about the ng tube and aspirations etc. on adult itu we would pull back the entire stomach contents every 4 hours to see that they’re being digested and then feed so much an hour. I don’t know if they do that with neonates or newborns etc and I can’t remember what they did when mine were in NICU / scbu. But once we knew he was gaining and not vomiting they upped his feeds to 30, 45 and then onto the breast and wean off my feeds.

 

[lampielooloo]

She probably made their job a whole lot easier once they found the paperwork she had at home and they had accessed her phone.

I feel bad for saying this but I wonder if they were filming the police case as it’s such a huge investigation. It’s not because I’m morbid but I know other high profile cases have had documentaries made about them.

There is a series which is fascinating, following the police investigation 'from crime to conviction'. Here is a link if anyone is interested:
https://www.channel4.com/programmes/catching-a-killer

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

I think it might be covered in the podcast. They are usually good at sharing more details about the texts.

oh yeah good shout! I still haven’t gotten round to listening to them all yet.

 

[OldBlondie]

I have a feeling there is no live reporting today

We luckily have Dan today, think he’s the only one though

 

[LilyRose1234]

2 months in so far and I don't see how this is gonna be wrapped up before Easter considering Xmas/new years is coming up as well.

I wonder if the defence are not expecting to call her

 

[Tofino]

Those were the charges read out by the prosecution in the opening statement.

Air embolus was their wording, not mine.

sorry air embolus was my wording (to summarise what the alleged attack was). We discussed on a very early thread the difference between air embolus and bolus of air which I had not understood were different. I thought I had corrected it all but missed this bit so I’ll correct it now. Apologies for the confusion!

 

[Lucyxxxx]

“Can you run my Suzuki Swift round the block so the battery doesn’t go flat?”

anyone else got a feeling there’s going to be a big shocker to come out about Lucy’s past? Like something that won’t be allowed in court but will come out after?
Can’t shake the feeling. Like a sibling to die is mysterious circumstances or something.

Probably got a secret OF account that she used to send videos of her punching kittens or something. Sickos pay good doe for that (sadly).

 

[IGiveUp22]

If they give a reason why nothing was done and it was put down to an anomaly or whatever I’m happy to accept that. All I’m saying is the fact nothing was done at the time given they had the same information available could mean there’s another explanation we’ve not heard

well I guess the time for that other explanation would likely only come out at the defence stage, as it would help them wouldn’t it?. I am reluctant to think they have one as I would assume it would have had to have been stated in the opening statement.
you never know, the jury might have had the Reason why the hospital did nothing explained already or that might be to come - we just might not know because of the reporting

 

[slingo16]

I see what you’re saying but I think the test not being followed up on is irrelevant. It doesn’t change that fact baby F was deliberately poisoned with insulin.

If we can have no doubt that child f was deliberately poisoned with insulin because of the test results then how come that conclusion wasn’t reached at the time? I’m going to assume it was explained away in one way or another, therefore why can’t the reason used at the time not apply any more

 

[candyland_]

My mind can run at a 100mph so I would be going over every possible question and my response in my head. I know it’s easy to forget things but if I was up for murder I’d be lying in my cell trying to remember every detail.