Lucy Letby Case #19

[Haveyouanywool]

Yes I get you, it was not only the quickest way, but also the easiest if the baby was already full and wouldn’t be able to drink anymore from a bottle as you say. I think using a syringe to over feed and push air in at the same time, would be the quickest and easiest method for sure. Would only take a second to do as other posters have said and if she did use her own designated babies’ breast milk she’d be able to go even more unnoticed. I think she was meticulous planning these attacks


The fact that she didn’t just pop into work though, for example if she’d left something in her locker. She actually made a point of going into Room 1 which as we know is a separate room in the unit, as she txt the colleague saying she’d seen G and she “looked awful”. So it’s not just casually dropping into work for a legitimate reason, it’s actually going into room 1 to see G. Especially after she’s spent the whole day texting about her, she then has to go in and see her

Yes, you’re right, I do think she went deliberately too but I just think she might have made an excuse up for doing such a well, frankly, strange thing.
A nurse would always aspirate the ng tube to test for ph (to ensure the ng tube was in the stomach), the designated nurse has recorded the 2am result so this was done. She would also have ensured there was no partly digested food in the stomach before giving another feed. The nurse has recorded this: minimal aspirate. Baby G’s stomach was empty before the 2am feed so should have only contained 45mls maximum of milk. There was a lot more than that between vomit and aspirate.
Anyone know how breast milk is prepared before use. In a sterile kitchen? Only using the prescribed amount (ie 45mls)?

 

[OldBlondie]

Yes, you’re right, I do think she went deliberately too but I just think she might have made an excuse up for doing such a well, frankly, strange thing.
A nurse would always aspirate the ng tube to test for ph (to ensure the ng tube was in the stomach), the designated nurse has recorded the 2am result so this was done. She would also have ensured there was no partly digested food in the stomach before giving another feed. The nurse has recorded this: minimal aspirate. Baby G’s stomach was empty before the 2am feed so should have only contained 45mls maximum of milk. There was a lot more than that between vomit and aspirate.

Yes I think she’ll have given some bizarre excuse as to why she had to go into the unit that night, but in reality I don’t buy any legitimate excuse. She deliberately went into room 1 when off duty and no need to do so. This was not long after she’d asked her colleague if G was being transferred or not so make of that what you will. I know my thoughts on it

And yes I fully agree, there’s no way that baby G could possibly have accidentally over fed, the mum makes a point of saying how carefully done it was each and every time. Plus in her 2nd (sure it was 2nd or 3rd at least, deffo wasn’t first anyway) police interview, even LL conceded herself there were only 2 possible explanations for G that night of 7th which are :

“that Child G had been fed far more than should have been, or she had not digested her earlier feed. She accepted that the clear inference to be drawn was that Child G had been given excess milk and air via the NGT”

 

[Treesy19]

I’m confused about amounts now. When my (full term) son was briefly in SCBU, they ferried a couple of 1ml syringes of my bm to him. 45mls sounds a lot to a small baby who’d only just reached her real due date no?

 

[starshine89]

How do we know the 45mls aspirated back wasnt the feed, and the extra volume of vomit wasn’t from the feed beforehadn’t been digested?

when you aspirate a NG to check the ph you only need less than a ml you wouldn’t need to aspirate the entire amount of what was in the stomach so how do we know the stomach was empty before the 2am feed?

 

[I’mThankyou_]

I’m confused about amounts now. When my (full term) son was briefly in SCBU, they ferried a couple of 1ml syringes of my bm to him. 45mls sounds a lot to a small baby who’d only just reached her real due date no?

Not uncommon, baby will of started off on 1ml from around 28ish weeks gestation maybe even earlier, and it's gradually built up over time.

 

[OldBlondie]

How do we know the 45mls aspirated back wasnt the feed, and the extra volume of vomit wasn’t from the feed beforehadn’t been digested?

when you aspirate a NG to check the ph you only need less than a ml you wouldn’t need to aspirate the entire amount of what was in the stomach so how do we know the stomach was empty before the 2am feed?

Even LL in her subsequent police interview accepted this about the night 7th September “event”:

“that Child G had been fed far more than should have been, or she had not digested her earlier feed. She accepted that the clear inference to be drawn was that Child G had been given excess milk and air via the NGT”

 

[Lucyxxxx]

Anyone know what her reasoning for being in work when she was off shift? At this point surely people HAD to be whispering amongst themselves at least? I dunno you know I think alot of these cases don't meet the standard to convict and that could then cast doubt over the other at least one (so far) case that I think 99% of us agree she is G on (F). A big part of me thinks she very well could walk from this.

 

[OldBlondie]

Anyone know what her reasoning for being in work when she was off shift? At this point surely people HAD to be whispering amongst themselves at least? I dunno you know I think alot of these cases don't meet the standard to convict and that could then cast doubt over the other at least one (so far) case that I think 99% of us agree she is G on (F). A big part of me thinks she very well could walk from this.

I’ve said I’ll fully accept the jury’s decision, whatever it may be. As they have all the information they need, they are seeing and hearing everything. But I’m also confident that they’ll find her G, if you look at similar trials SK have been convicted on a lot less. In this type of murder we are hearing the exact kind of evidence you’d expect to hear (mostly circumstantial), and I think it’ll be enough to convict. Ofc this is just my thoughts not everyone is going to to agree with that. The only one I think she might get away with is K, as even the prosecution mention that there was sub standard care in this case, but all the rest I think the jury will have heard enough beyond reasonable doubt to convict

 

[candyland_]

I can’t answer your question as such, as I don’t know for sure, but there was a poster yesterday that suggested LL used the breast milk of the baby she was designated that evening, so that no one would notice the extra milk missing, and that’s why she sent a txt about breast milk to her colleague early on in her shift. I find that theory very credible as we’ve seen lots of examples of LL being very cunning and probably meticulously planning her attacks. So I would imagine she would have been quick at administering a syringe of milk, you’d only need a small amount and the mum spoke yesterday about how you have to administer it very slowly when feeding, so I imagine LL just gave it very quickly, hence how violent the vomiting was and how quickly G became unwell. Someone else can confirm/correct this that would know for sure though


ETA I see the posters above have also answered this already with very similar thought process

That was me. I think they included that part for a reason - (the designated baby milk text)

 

[OldBlondie]

That was me. I think they included that part for a reason - (the designated baby milk text)

Excellent spot, the more I think about it, the more I think you’re onto something. Hopefully today’s roundups will have more info, and provide some more context and detail for some of what we’ve already heard yesterday. I don’t like this no live reporting, although if it is all technical bits today then I understand why there’s nothing. At least we know Liz from DM is definitely there today so there should at least be a round up from her in DM tonight

 

[Blockedbyadmin]

People asking about the ng tube and aspirations etc. on adult itu we would pull back the entire stomach contents every 4 hours to see that they’re being digested and then feed so much an hour. I don’t know if they do that with neonates or newborns etc and I can’t remember what they did when mine were in NICU / scbu. But once we knew he was gaining and not vomiting they upped his feeds to 30, 45 and then onto the breast and wean off my feeds.

 

[candyland_]

Anyone know what her reasoning for being in work when she was off shift? At this point surely people HAD to be whispering amongst themselves at least? I dunno you know I think alot of these cases don't meet the standard to convict and that could then cast doubt over the other at least one (so far) case that I think 99% of us agree she is G on (F). A big part of me thinks she very well could walk from this.

I think they had been whispering for a while. The has been two cases of ‘Who told you!?’ already. Alarm bells were ringing yesterday when she was trying to guess who told the colleague about the recent baby.

Excellent spot, the more I think about it, the more I think you’re onto something. Hopefully today’s roundups will have more info, and provide some more context and detail for some of what we’ve already heard yesterday. I don’t like this no live reporting, although if it is all technical bits today then I understand why there’s nothing. At least we know Liz from DM is definitely there today so there should at least be a round up from her in DM tonight

I think it’s strange that they haven’t followed up yesterdays reporting with a live report today. It’s quite likely to be the bulk of Baby Gs history.

Colleague ‘surprised at baby’s turn for the worse’, Lucy Letby trial is told

The defendant is accused of overfeeding the baby with milk through a nasogastric tube (NGT) and/or injecting air into the tube.

www.independent.co.uk

An article from today.

 

[OldBlondie]

I think they had been whispering for a while. The has been two cases of ‘Who told you!?’ already. Alarm bells were ringing yesterday when she was trying to guess who told the colleague about the recent baby.


I think it’s strange that they haven’t followed up yesterdays reporting with a live report today. It’s quite likely to be the bulk of Baby Gs history.

Yea I think Faith posted that she’d seen on FB someone had said today was mostly technical and procedural stuff, so that’s why no live reporting. I hope that’s the case and we aren’t missing too many important pieces today. But Liz did tweet to say she’s there today, so at least we should get something later that will tell us what exactly has gone today

And I’m sure when the monitor thing happens with G it involves Dr Jayaram, and he was deffo starting to get very suss of her, wonder who the other consultants getting suss were?

 

[candyland_]

The designated nurse has given evidence today. She said the baby was settled when she went on her break and she was surprised to find out the baby was unwell and had been moved.

 

[IGiveUp22]

The designated nurse has given evidence today. She said the baby was settled when she went on her break and she was surprised to find out the baby was unwell and had been moved.

In the article you posted it explains why the baby was moved into LL’s care because I could fathom this. The fact the baby wasn’t that unwell to be with an intensive care trained nurse initially speaks volumes to me- they obviously were not worried about the baby at this point. I’m just heartbroken for the family

 

[Blockedbyadmin]

what i now cant understand now either is how shes not displaying emotion. as a pp has said like if you were innocent youd be so emotional about t and esp hearing from parents. the nmc wont look lightly on her so her career is over so trying to salage that by maintaining a neutral emotion wont work. its just very harrd to thin shes not caring and agan i wnt to know when she startd there...have they gone bK TO her emplyment or when she qualified to see her behaviors? if i was prosecuting i would be digging DEEP

 

[candyland_]

Taken from the Wiki. I wonder if this is a different nurse because it’s a different recollection. The nurse on her break had no idea the baby was unwell until after her break and I can’t imagine three nurses would be sat around at the same time. There’s usually only 5 on night shift.

 

[Lucyxxxx]

Lucy Letby - the Summer Spellman of the medical world.

 

[OldBlondie]

what i now cant understand now either is how shes not displaying emotion. as a pp has said like if you were innocent youd be so emotional about t and esp hearing from parents. the nmc wont look lightly on her so her career is over so trying to salage that by maintaining a neutral emotion wont work. its just very harrd to thin shes not caring and agan i wnt to know when she startd there...have they gone bK TO her emplyment or when she qualified to see her behaviors? if i was prosecuting i would be digging DEEP

I think they have looked already into where she’s previously done training. And it looks like operation Hummingbird is continuing the investigation into 2025, so I would hope that means they are looking intensely into everywhere LL has been

View attachment 1777216
Taken from the Wiki. I wonder if this is a different nurse because it’s a different recollection. The nurse on her break had no idea the baby was unwell until after her break and I can’t imagine three nurses would be sat around at the same time. There’s usually only 5 on night shift.

Yes the shift leader (that LL was supposed to be sat with) is different from the nurse that was the designated one for G that went on her hour long break. The shift leader is the one that says she was with LL when alarm sounded, but prosecution say that shift leader is mistaken and they can show this to be the case. The nurse that testified today is one that can’t be named, the shift leader has been named. And very good point it’s unlikely that 3 nurses would just be sat on breaks at the same time

 

[Windowtothewall]

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Friday, October 14

THE trial of Lucy Letby, the former Countess of Chester Hospital nurse accused of seven baby murders and attempting to murder 10 more, resumes today…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Write up for today.

Shift leader was Alisa Simpson, designated nurse is unnamed.