Lucy Letby Case #19

[just_nicole]

Voted unsure, due to needing to hear more evidence for Child F, as I am honestly confused on the details, still open minded for the rest of the children and charges, will probably continue until closing

Ng Overall for children A-E at the moment, will keep revisiting my decision as more evidence becomes available, as I am sure there is more to come.

Based my opinion by cross referencing witness accounts, expert opinion and medical records and noticing what appear to be inconsistencies between them (some I can account to poor reporting, others, I just can't ignore even as a medical layman with poor reporting),

Happy to be proven wrong throughout the remainder of the trial. Happy to accept I've missed tons of much needed clarity in the court room, it's just not sitting right with me because of my personal experiences and what I am seeing at the moment in court.

Still enjoy reading people's different opinions/thought processes and getting much needed help with the medical side of things.
We've got tons of brilliant points being made on all sides

 

[OldBlondie]

Ok so both the CS and the Dailymail are reporting the prosecution are suggesting there were infact two tpn bags contaminated with insulin, based on what Bohin said when giving evidence today; the practice for a long line replacement, is for the tpn also to be changed, so they believe there were two bags contaminated, one bespoke and one stock. The stock one was kept in fridge next to insulin . The only child on unit receiving tpn that night was F, so if LL also contaminated the stock bag, then she knew that F would definitely be the only baby to receive it that night. Link to full DM article here: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/p...urse-received-two-bags-contaminated-feed.html

And the only baby receiving tpn that night:

*ETA I do think there’s some confusion over the 2nd bag, whether a new one was actually given or the same one was rehung. I’m not sure whether this is down to the reporting or whether they (pros) can’t be sure which of the two scenarios is correct, they are going on the fact long line change should have also meant tpn change, but as we know just because that was procedure doesn’t necessarily mean it was followed. But the most important bit for me is it’s not really relevant about whether 2nd bag contaminated/used because if it had any significance, we can be absolutely sure BM would have definitely brought it up, the fact he didn’t means it’s not important. Both sides have had this evidence for years, so I doubt people on tattle are going to have discovered anything new, or relevant that both sides have potentially missed Either way we know for definite someone deliberately tampered with original tpn bag (and possibly 2nd stock), which meant a deliberate poisoning, and attempted murder on baby F

 

[wideningperspective]

Good night all. Wake up tomorrow with gratitude that this evil monster is behind bars. One day at a time

 

[Treesy19]

I think she used different methods to attempt to avoid detection. All part of the MO. Unlike other killers she can’t change locations, her crime scene is set to be in one corridor. Other killers would get used to one method but easily move about. She’s constrained in locations so that part of her thrill is fixed.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

If she is guilty I don't believe child A would have been her first victim, but then they spent years and a lot of money building evidence so I don't know how they could miss previous victims.

I don't think it's that they have "missed" previous victims more that they wouldn't have had as much evidence or quantifiable proof in those cases. They originally had more charges I believe but dropped them.

You can see how many people on this thread are convinced that the evidence we have been presented with for these babies isn't strong enough to consider her guilty and these are the cases that were deemed strong enough to bring her to court.

They couldn't afford to bring weaker cases to court because it would run the risk of her being found not guilty for ALL the cases.

Oh believe me if she was my colleague I would be sat in that court looking directly at her when I gave my evidence. I'd like to think so anyway but then again.....

These Nurses have worked alongside her, they've questioned her guilt, their own sanity. They've supported her whilst the death rates were increasing. They've drank with her and danced with her. They've mentored her and been mentored. They've absolutely trusted her. They know more about her and the crimes shes committed than we ever probably will. They have nursed and cared for the babies she's killed.

They must be absolutely devastated.

So if they want a screen, whether to protect their identity or so they don't have to look at the monster then yes, they should have that.

Exactly, fuck what Letby wants!!

 

[candyland_]

Awful, awful reading. Just heartbreaking. The texts seem a bit off to me does anyone else get that vibe? Almost like her colleague was fed up with her, a bit blunt? And once again, no sympathy towards her colleagues (unless not shown)

Her colleague sounds fed up and suffering with her own down days.. I don’t think she could be arsed with Letby and she didn’t even get asked if she was OK.

 

[Tiger_Queen84]

I worked on a operations ward years ago for almost 10 years, I can remember there was a huge buzz around a sister of a ward obtaining thousands and thousands of pounds worth of overtime, forged timesheets, forged notes the lot.
Even pocketing cash donations off relatives of patients, it was awful but when it came to court she was told under no circumstance should she take the stand because she bullied so many staff members from nurses, drs, porters and admin it wouldn’t be in her best interest !
This fraud was over a fair few years so in relation to LL why move somewhere else when she already knows exactly how her ward worked, the staff and the wards weaknesses.
Blind spots, missing notes, limited staff?
I think it was only a matter of time before she was caught.

 

[Rippedjeanmaybe]

Why is the 100 day thing relevant? There’s no other mention of certain milestones correlating with attacks,

she attempted to murder the baby twice on the 114th day of life, a completely insignificant number and given the prosecution are basing there case around circumstance and patterns, the 114th day fits alot better than the 100th because in this case we see multiple attacks happen in quick succession of each other a number of times in this case and by that I mean we’ve got 16 charges (I think) that happen within a day of another charge, and we’ve got I think 8 charges that actually happen on the same day as another charge. Which is really interesting actually and for that reason my opinion is that the 114th day is much more relevant because it actually fits the pattern that the prosecution said would start to emerge

It’s relevant because it was an important milestone, it shows how far the baby had come and how well she was doing, before arriving at the countess. It’s important because the attack just happened to coincide with an important milestone that everyone was celebrating.


none of the other babies so far were more than a couple of weeks old at most.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

I see a lot of “she loved the drama and being the hero” form ample people on here but I don’t think it’s consistent with SK, they know not to stand out, whether it’s for a good reason or not and drama doesn’t satisfy them like killing does as a general rule. This is why you normally see escalation, they need to do worse things in order to satisfy there urges. Interestingly this case is in reverse when you look at the charges. And serial killers don’t get less efficient it’s just not what happens. It’s like anything you play enough poker you’re going to get better at it,

You can’t just say SK do x and y so LL must do the same, because it suits your narrative.
You say we don’t even know Baby G was over fed yet. We don’t even know LL’s motivations yet, it’s just speculation.
Anyway, enough. Night.

 

[Deeznutslol]

Give me strength We get it, you’re on the fence. As are plenty of others. It is simply that some (most?) of us have arrived at guilty given what we know so far. And before people get their knickers in a twist with the classic “oh you’d be awful on a jury making your mind up at this stage”, none of us are on the jury - it is mere interpretation on a discussion forum. If my bum was on that bench I absolutely wouldn’t state my own belief until the jury room end and sit and listen to the other 11.

Exactly, everyone has their own view and is totally entitled to it. We’re not on a jury so no ones thoughts really matter at the end of the day, this place is purely just to discuss ideas, hence why we don’t need anyones opinion put as a pinned post at the top of the thread as if it’s worth more than anyone else’s (not that you can even do that on tattle lol).

 

[avabella]

There’s been a wee influx of new posters and it’s been refreshing to read some new perspectives and experiences it’s a shame we’ve not had much reporting but as always I’m sure the Jury have everything they need. What an awful case to be sitting on at any point, but especially in the run up to Christmas

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

Later in the afternoon, the nurse messaged Letby that Child G's condition was still very poor.

Letby responds: "any idea what's caused in [sic]?"

The nurse responds, at 6.06pm, "Nope. Just seems to be a circulation collapse. Chest sounds clear."

Letby: "Hmm, what can cause that.

"Is it that she is an extreme premature who had long-term inotrope and vent dependency and now she is older and doing more for herself...it just takes a little...something to tip her over."

The nurse responds: "We are going with sepsis..."

________________________________________________
LL providing reasons why baby G might’ve deteriorated

Would she ever fuck off. Honestly she's such a dose. Nobody asked her for her hypothesis

 

[tinkertailorsoldierspy]

I know it was touched on earlier but you do wonder what's going through Lucy Letbys head while she's sitting in court.
If she's NG then she must be screaming inside listening to all the accusations.
If she's G then what is she feeling? It is interesting she's just sitting there without any expression.

It's been very difficult to hear today's reporting.

 

[Rippedjeanmaybe]

and here we go again with her wanting to know who had informed the colleagues about what had happened.

 

[Notworthy]

Bsbdbsbs

I’m far from intelligent but I’ve researched the topic to the best of my ability and basically everything says low c peptide and high insulin means the presence of synthetic insulin I can’t find anything to contradict this. Which makes me wonder how the conclusion wasn’t reached at the time? That’s what I don’t understand

I get exactly what you are trying to highlight but the fact is that once a blood test shows a normal result all concern for the previous test result vanishes. I doubt anyone gave it much if any thought once the levels returned to normal until the investigation started.

 

[friedeggontoast]

Alisa Simpson later messages Lucy Letby to say: "Hi Lucy. Just to let you know that [Child G] has successfully been transferred out at 3am athis morning to APH. She is stable and latest CBG [capilliary blood gas] has improved! Fingers crossed for her!"

Letby responds: "That is good news. Thanks for letting me know"

Try not to be too happy LL

 

[IGiveUp22]

The designated nurse has given evidence today. She said the baby was settled when she went on her break and she was surprised to find out the baby was unwell and had been moved.

In the article you posted it explains why the baby was moved into LL’s care because I could fathom this. The fact the baby wasn’t that unwell to be with an intensive care trained nurse initially speaks volumes to me- they obviously were not worried about the baby at this point. I’m just heartbroken for the family

 

[DianaBanana]

There was also a comment in one of the text messages to her colleagues, saying that the parents were feeling much more confident about her chances once she got to 100 days. So I don’t think the prosecution are saying this has anything to do with why she attacked the baby then, they’re just highlighting that this milestone was clearly significant at the time, in that it was being celebrated by the parents and the staff.

 

[Tofino]

BBC report from today

Baby's deterioration unexpected, Letby trial told - BBC News

A colleague of Lucy Letby tells the nurse's trial that a change in a baby's condition was unexpected.

www.bbc.co.uk

So the reason baby G was passed over to Lucy was because the designated nurse was not trained in intensive care.

The shift leader Alisa Simpson was also on the stand but weirdly Ben Myers seems to be questioning her memory which is a bit strange given she’s a potential alibi for Lucy! So something doesn’t quite add up, with the reporting probably.

Unfortunately I feel like we’ve missed quite an important day for live reporting. The shift leader’s memory vs records is probably pretty critical to this case.


Mr Myers questioned the accuracy of her memory of the shift alongside statements she had made to police years later.

He put it to Ms Simpson that she did not have "images in her head" for all the events and was referring to notes, which she accepted.

She agreed that his suggestion that "seven years after the event, it's almost impossible to know... how long something took" was "fair".

 

[Lucyxxxx]

I’ve said it before but if LL was some creepy looking old bloke, I doubt there would be as much debate over whether she did it.

Defo I'd have been voting a big fat G on day one.