Hsmmssmskma
That’s exactly what I’m saying, I don’t explain myself very well but I’m glad someone gets what I’m saying
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I’ve never come across a male builder on this site before! What led you here if you don’t mind me asking? Was it this particular case?
I only ask coz tattle has a reputation as being a middle aged mum gossip site
(which isn’t true ofc)I do remember that being given as a reason but it is piss poor, and I refuse to accept that. “Somebody tried to kill this baby, not to worry though cos he’s alright now” ridiculous reasoning
It's a good point too I think. Especially when the second poisoning then happened and it seems like there was still a gap before the investigation started full throttle.
The air cases, it seems to make perfect sense to me that the link was only established looking back retrospectively and many of those didn't seem suspicious alone - until they had the pattern of everything and were looking back with suspicious eyes.
But the insulin, the whole argument is that it's so clear and obvious and the prosecution seem to me to be relying on that to then back up the air theory, yet it seems like nobody did anything? So at best with the first baby they covered up what they presumably thought was an accidental poisoning, and then when it happened to the second baby that also didn't raise instant, we need to act now, red flags?
Along with the confusion over the second TPN bag and whether that was poisoned and whether LL would even have had access to the second one, it's all things that start to sew seeds of being unsure in my mind. The more evidence there is of deliberate acts from other people (covering up an accidental poisoning is deliberate) the more you wonder what else was being covered up and if there really was a culture of negligence and cover ups that really has an impact on the "beyond reasonable doubt".
ETA: I think it's particularly problematic for the prosecution on the insulin cases because the more they emphasise how there's no way it could have been an innocent mix up, the more it highlights that it wasn't flagged at the time.
Clearly their first thought wasn’t that one of their own was trying to murder babies
Its a huge duck up on their part but doesn’t absolve LL of guilt
Was going to type something similar out but you've already put it perfectly. It's a valid question - how was it originally explained, and why does that explanation not apply now?
I think the issue might in assuming everything gets a full explanation. Information gets fragmented between departments, people get half stories. The test results don't mean murder, they mean overdose. I can fully imagine a scenario where that information get passed to some management type who reads it and assumes one of the nurses has fucked up, and either covers it up or puts out some half-arsed "please remind people to be diligent and double check!!" type advice, because they don't know or don't care enough to investigate and realise the baby was never prescribed it in the first place.
That may be the point slingo is now making after back and forth discussion, but this was not his original point. I actually had these same question’s many threads ago, and I couldn’t get my head around it.
Any way in answer to your question I can’t say, but it did say they didn’t take it any further what conclusion they came to and why they decided this at the time I have no idea, perhaps time will tell. However, I suspect there was none and they just wanted to sweep it under the carpet and move on.
And it doesn't change the fact that defence aren't debating whether it was deliberate or not. They are just saying not Letby.
Think @docmum put it very well, when she explained that you wouldn’t usually test for insulin but even if you did it certainly would not be because you were expecting one off your own to be the unknown force that you are working against. Dr Gibbs also spoke about how insulin poisoning is something they wouldn’t have even considered at the time
Exactly, everyone’s entitled to post whatever they like on here, but questioning agreed facts is confusing to me!
(not a personal attack before anyone jumps down my throat)
Exactly, why would you? Imagine your usual thoughts at work, even in medical settings, your last and final thought would be that one of your colleagues was a killer
It was exactly the point he was making right from the start of the conversation, you just didn't grasp it at the time.
Then you missed the discussion surrounding what other causes there were for insulin / c-peptide levels last night.
Well basically I’m one of these people who loves murder documentaries and true crime, I saw this case on the news just before the start of the trial and I did a little search to see what details were available online and I stumbled upon tattle. So yeah I’m only here for this case, Although I haven’t really explored tattle so I don’t really know what else it has to offer lolI’ve never come across a male builder on this site before! What led you here if you don’t mind me asking? Was it this particular case?
I only ask coz tattle has a reputation as being a middle aged mum gossip site
Oh I see, well welcome! To be honest it’s mainly influencer and celeb gossip threads on this site, but there have been quite a few good and active trial threads on here too lol.
I think this explanation of why wasn’t it investigated at the time as probably the most plausible !
There have been so many discussions around this already on the last thread or two. So tonight it just feels like going round in a massive circle, with no further forward and some starting to feel frustrated at going over the same thing repeatedly. Regardless of whether the hospital did or didn’t follow up on tests, that has no bearing on the fact that the tpn bag was deliberately contaminated with synthetic insulin (which was actually the original point about synthetic insulin, but anyway). The staff themselves and the prosecution, have both said there is no way anyone would ever believe that F had been deliberately poisoned with insulin at that time. It being followed up or not, is a completely separate issue, and irrelevant to the fact synthetic insulin was being deliberately administered on purpose to F. I’m not sure what else there is to say on it
Since learning of the special test they sent off (which came back with low/no cpeptide) I too am like thinking ahhh great so it was brushed off then because he was ok. I feel like that, and it being a very busy environment that there was just no resource to deep dive into it at the time. I do think someone would have accepted “overdose” and known it was, but kept quiet as they didn’t see the point in the hassle of the paperwork given the baby was fine and gone home. I do not blame any member of staff here as they were busy actually saving lives. The only blame is the murderer amongst them.
To be fair, not everyone has been around for every single discussion that happens on here because these threads move really fast. Some have been following the trial much more closely (and have done a lot of their own research into things so have a better understanding of things like how the insulin works and c-peptide levels etc). Where as others just simply don’t have the time to follow it constantly, or have joined late, prefer to dip in and out etc. which is why I think sometimes it can feel like we’re going round in circles a bit on these threads with people asking questions or suggesting explanations for things which have already been discussed.There have been so many discussions around this already on the last thread or two. So tonight it just feels like going round in a massive circle, with no further forward and some starting to feel frustrated at going over the same thing repeatedly. Regardless of whether the hospital did or didn’t follow up on tests, that has no bearing on the fact that the tpn bag was deliberately contaminated with synthetic insulin (which was actually the original point about synthetic insulin, but anyway). The staff themselves and the prosecution, have both said there is no way anyone would ever believe that F had been deliberately poisoned with insulin at that time. It being followed up or not, is a completely separate issue, and irrelevant to the fact synthetic insulin was being deliberately administered on purpose to F. I’m not sure what else there is to say on it
I can totally understand how that can be frustrating to some, but at the end of the day it’s still relevant and legitimate discussion, so I would say the best thing to do is just scroll past it if you find yourself getting annoyed by it.
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