Lucy Letby Case #18

[gmf21]

I’ve never not primed a line but I would have thought surely they alarm if line not primed as they alarm if small air bubble in line!?

That’s what I thought but I am forgetful!

 

[Blockedbyadmin]

Would she have got it out of the fridge? It seems it was replaced because the line tissued and she was off shift at that time. It had only been up 10hr at this point so I don't know if they'd have got one out in preparation during the nightshift?

she signed for it I think?

 

[OldBlondie]

@OldBlondie sorry I’m not ignoring you.. I can’t remember much (Letby catchphrase soz) about Alitt’s defence and I’m not sure if that’s because I’m onto Harold now or because it wasn’t covered much. I can’t find anything much about it online. I suspect it was the same sort of thing and a how can you prove it was her if nobody saw her type situation ‍ I did find this article I hadn’t read though from one of the nurses. Really startling how similar these cases are, really the main difference is that, more like Shipman’s victims - on the face of it they’re more expected to die, even though actually that was so far from the truth. Many of these babies had great outlooks and many of shipman’s little old ladies had actually been very active even on the day they died. I’m still surprised BA got away with as much as she did but when you read this it is so heartbreaking for the people that work amongst this awfulness. This poor lady had to emigrate to try and leave the past behind her and lives with guilt she shouldn’t do every day of her life. She briefly mentions the awful cross examination so I imagine similar stuff- making out they were all to blame with incompetence etc somehow.

Birmingham nurse recalls working with 'Angel Of Death' child killer Beverley Allitt

The Birmingham nurse who worked alongside ‘Angel of Death’ Beverley Allitt – Britain’s most prolific hospital killer – today opens her heart to the Sunday Mercury.

www.birminghammail.co.uk

I’m only catching up on thread now from Friday evening, so quite a lot of pages to get through, I’m very behind. Very interesting, thanks for this, will give it a read here shortly

 

[Blockedbyadmin]

No it's the same, I think that's the whole point in the case with this one that it would be made in pharmacy then administered as its recieved so if the medication was in there it should never have been tampered with and points to foul play.

See that’s what I think so maybe I’ve got crossed
Wires reading through the posts etc

 

[OldBlondie]

I really hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think we are going to have any live reporting tomorrow. There’s no mention of it from anyone that was in court today, or in the usual round ups

 

[avabella]

I've just read a couple of the articles on Google and it seems pretty common for insulin to be added to TPN bags. These are all peer reviewed articles by experts in their field. Lots are more recent than these alleged attacks and from lots of different counties.
I think the difference in this case is probably that in the articles the trials were for treatment of chronic hypoglycaemia and diabetes, so it wouldn't matter necessarily if the insulin stuck to the bag, as you'd want a continuous administration anyway. In NICU you'd want to know exactly how much they were receiving and this doesn't seem to be the norm for administration.
This was interesting.. the use of TPN is itself a risk factor for the onset or aggravation of hyperglycemia.

I thought that was really interesting too - I was actually going to go back and see if it was listed when baby was initially given the TPN/began to record low blood sugar.

 

[Notworthy]

20th November 2020

NMC comment on nurse charged with murder

Read our response

www.nmc.org.uk

Interesting
In this case we didn’t have details about the underlying criminal evidence to support the allegations. But now that charges have been confirmed by the police we can rely on those charges to proceed with appropriate regulatory action.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

Oops, sorry. I have misunderstood that!
Would it be 0.56mls of the TPN an hour?
It can’t be 0.56mls of insulin as that would be 5.6 units an hour. Way too much.

 

[girl123467]

How can I watch this trial guys how do you guys know the details

 

[Cheddar Chalpupa]

The jury need to find her guilty “ beyond all reasonable doubt “ not beyond all doubt.
There is a very big difference.

I don't think I've ever entirely understood what this means tbh.

Google tells me unless they are certain of guilt from the evidence given a jury have to find a defendant not guilty.

What does reasonable doubt versus doubt actually really mean, in basic terms?

 

[slingo16]

Because they couldn’t understand why Baby F’s blood sugars were remaining constantly low when he was being given frequent dextrose boluses, and continuous sugars, to counteract this. They were probably looking for a rare natural cause.
It’s a specialist test and the results didn’t come back for a week.

Is that the reason that’s been given or is that just what you think has happened? I’ve had a few similar replies to this question, what rare natural causes could they have been looking for? Is it not possible they suspected foul play? given the “bad run”

 

[avabella]

BA’s victim survived it his were in the tens of thousands!

I thought that was baby Paul and he’d passed away? I haven’t looked hugely into her case though so apologies if I’m picking it up wrong.

 

[OldBlondie]

I know she’s fit to stand trial but I guess it’s possible defence may have something up their sleeve to help their case.

i’m going to refer to star’s case again but the defence for Frankie Smith (star’s mum) had evaluations done on her that showed she had low IQ and I forget the exact term but also an evaluation that showed she was also very agreeable? I think it was meant to show she couldn’t have reasonably known or understood that Savannah was harming Star.


I can’t think what kind of thing defence might use that would work in Lucy’s favour though - maybe something to try to normalise the Facebook searches?

See this is what I was wondering in my post above, only I was wondering if it would be the other way round. If the prosecution could have an expert profiler, but this would only be ofc if she did in fact fit some of the typical HSK patterns

 

[avabella]

Think I’m missing the accidental point, @docmum can you please confirm if my thinking here is correct; there was no other baby on that unit receiving insulin at all at that time, so if an incompetent theoretical person somehow went and deliberately (or mistakenly) got insulin out of the locked fridge, and was going to administer it by mistake or accident, then surely it would NOT be administered via tpn bag, does the fact it was through the tpn bag not rule out accident/mistake even more

Wasn't it just a theory that it was in the TPN bag though? But then I guess if it wasn't in the TPN bag, it was in *somewhere*.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

For anyone bored over the weekend, I'm enjoying this novel about medical murders in a London hospital.View attachment 1762308 Only 20 per cent through it. It's by a former doctor and feels almost like a true crime book rather than fiction.

Thanks, just bought it for Kindle!

 

[Miss Perla]

Where can you see the pics?

The pics Ive seen have been online, Daily Mail, Sun ect. They must be getting some stick for this!

 

[avabella]

Can any medical people help to clarify - the level of insulin in baby F was 4,657, and in the case of one of Beverly Allitts victims, it was recorded as 43,147 (and said to be a full adult syringe).

What volume of insulin would be needed to get a reading of the lower level? What syringe sizes/vial sizes does insulin come in?

 

[candyland_]

Dont think ove seen that one? Can you remember where you saw it/what it's called?

I think it was on ITV Hub. You might have to search Trevor McDonald for it to come up.

Dont think ove seen that one? Can you remember where you saw it/what it's called?

It’s always the same poster

 

[Haveyouanywool]

I want to ask about the lines baby F had. Reading the wiki, baby F was having TPN through a long line. Do these ‘tissue’ in the way that a peripheral IV line would? I thought the end would be much further along the vein and any leakage would be internal? Am I wrong? Could LL have tampered with the line in some way?
The TPN was changed to a peripheral line, which is acceptable, I believe, infection wise, and stopped at 11am.
I could be going off on the wrong track regarding the lines but just wondering.

 

[Daisydunn15]

Tpn has standard dextrose in it

Is that the same for the bespoke bags or would it depend entirely on the prescription? Not something I've used.