Lucy Letby Case #17

[PeninsulaAndOriental]

I wonder if the salsa texts are to show she’s done this and just doesn’t care? She’s left work, knowing she’s set this baby up with a TPN bag poisoned with insulin that she knows has the potential to kill at worst or make the baby extremely poorly at best and rather than sitting at home feeling guilty or regretting what she’s done, she’s off out dancing with a colleague. It shows she’s completely removed from any kind of normal emotional response to what she’s doing.

Excellent point Raspberry

I really do just get anxiety when I read some of the complete space cadets on Facebook. I worry the Jury will be like them. And she’ll get away with it.

I know this sounds OTT on my part, but genuinely last night I was sat worried about this.

 

[Ridandroo]

I find it crazy that there’s just the two lawyers on this! I know they will each have a team behind them working on things but this case is a colossal minefield! The research they must have had to do is immense.

 

[Faith61]

Excellent point Raspberry

I really do just get anxiety when I read some of the complete space cadets on Facebook. I worry the Jury will be like them. And she’ll get away with it.

I know this sounds OTT on my part, but genuinely last night I was sat worried about this.

I worry about this constantly!!! You're not alone with that thoght!!

 

[docmum]

I wonder if the salsa texts are to show she’s done this and just doesn’t care? She’s left work, knowing she’s set this baby up with a TPN bag poisoned with insulin that she knows has the potential to kill at worst or make the baby extremely poorly at best and rather than sitting at home feeling guilty or regretting what she’s done, she’s off out dancing with a colleague. It shows she’s completely removed from any kind of normal emotional response to what she’s doing.

i agree.. would a psychiatric assessment/profiler further down the line be able to distinguish murder from manslaughter from the behaviour/regret/grief (lack of) etc? If the jury were convinced she was at fault but not intentionally, it would be manslaughter due to gross error... but we’d see a humane response around these times from her surely.

 

[Milktray]

I wonder if the salsa texts are to show she’s done this and just doesn’t care? She’s left work, knowing she’s set this baby up with a TPN bag poisoned with insulin that she knows has the potential to kill at worst or make the baby extremely poorly at best and rather than sitting at home feeling guilty or regretting what she’s done, she’s off out dancing with a colleague. It shows she’s completely removed from any kind of normal emotional response to what she’s doing.

But it depends if prosecution are using it as a fact or 'theory'. I'm presuming it's been brought up to prove something and prosecution are not using it to 'speculate' her emotion.

Would prosecution be making a point of showing a 'lack of remorse' when they haven't yet proven guilt? As remorse if generally saved for sentencing and even then, if convicted guilty, she'll never see light of day again, even if she does show any emotion (which I doubt).

 

[docmum]

I find it crazy that there’s just the two lawyers on this! I know they will each have a team behind them working on things but this case is a colossal minefield! The research they must have had to do is immense.

i fell down a rabbit hole yesterday when the newspaper quoted an ‘intelligence analyst’ presenting to the room for the prosecution - I was researching how to train, available jobs etc

 

[PeninsulaAndOriental]

I’m off work today and tomorrow so I plan to spend the day watching Most Haunted (guilty pleasure) and following the trial.

It has been established the insulin was injected and in massive quantities. I just don’t see what there is to debate on this. It’s open and shut in my opinion.

Although a young person on Facebook, claiming to be a Staff Nurse, said in her opinion the samples aren’t reliable because they could have been tampered with… I wanted to stop the world and get off when I read that

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

@OldBlondie Going back to insulin and c-peptide, I was trying to think of an analogy last night to try and explain it. I thought of fire, the light of a flame being insulin and the heat being c-peptide. A real flame (insulin) would always let off heat (c-peptide) they go together hand in hand you can’t have the light of a real fire without the heat, and therefore, real insulin without c-peptide. However, if you have an artificial flame you would still get the light source (synthetic insulin) but no heat or at least very little in comparison and not from that source.

 

[docmum]

Excellent point Raspberry

I really do just get anxiety when I read some of the complete space cadets on Facebook. I worry the Jury will be like them. And she’ll get away with it.

I know this sounds OTT on my part, but genuinely last night I was sat worried about this.

i think being in the court room with grieving parents and distraught medical/nursing staff will carry a huge influence that the Facebook huns don’t see. They think she’s innocent based on a photo with a smiling LL holding a babygro. Seeing and hearing witness accounts, and watching LLs speech/reactions on being interviewed over a six month period will provide a huge weight that (thankfully really) none of us are privy to.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

Excellent point Raspberry

I really do just get anxiety when I read some of the complete space cadets on Facebook. I worry the Jury will be like them. And she’ll get away with it.

I know this sounds OTT on my part, but genuinely last night I was sat worried about this.

People like that are the minority though thankfully enough, they are just loud!!
If there are some people like that on the jury the other jury members will be able for them.
I'm curious though, if I was on a jury and believed one of my fellow jurors was mental unable to preform the role properly (I don't mean a difference of opinion I mean they are unable to comprehend basic facts e.g. a person cannot be in two places at once etc.) can I raise a red flag anywhere??

 

[candyland_]

Usually when you hear about a murder in the news the majority of the time they report how they killed someone then went to Asda and bought beers or they went and did XYZ like nothing had happened. It’s common for them to behave like it never happened.

 

[Ridandroo]

Lucy was still going on nights out with the nursing team in January 2017. This was after being moved to admin duties I believe? If so, she’s clearly on good terms with them all despite the accusations.

 

[lunaa]

My first post on here been trying to read it all. I’m leaning towards guilty it just seems unfathomable that someone could be so evil. I’m wondering if guilty how premeditated this all was. Did she go into nursing to prey on the vulnerable? Did she choose neonatal care so she could kill these babies? It’s shocking and makes me sick to think about. Feel so bad for the families having to sit in court and look at her. Pray they get answers and justice

 

[Deeznutslol]

Excellent point Raspberry

I really do just get anxiety when I read some of the complete space cadets on Facebook. I worry the Jury will be like them. And she’ll get away with it.

I know this sounds OTT on my part, but genuinely last night I was sat worried about this.

Gonna be honest, I have my doubts she will even go down for the insulin stuff. For me it really hangs on the c-peptide levels and proving that the insulin was deliberately administered, but that sort of thing is actually really complicated to understand. I’m educated more than the average person in this area and even I struggle to understand the science behind it to be honest, that’s why I think it will be really hard to convince a jury of her guilt.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

Lucy was still going on nights out with the nursing team in January 2017. This was after being moved to admin duties I believe? If so, she’s clearly on good terms with them all despite the accusations.

In the middle, pride of place!!

Gonna be honest, I have my doubts she will even go down for the insulin stuff. For me it really hangs on the c-peptide levels and proving that the insulin was deliberately administered, but that sort of thing is actually really complicated to understand. I’m educated more than the average person in this area and even I struggle to understand the science behind it to be honest, that’s why I think it will be really hard to convince a jury of her guilt.

But Letby has even agreed it couldn't have been done accidentally. It's not a matter of proving it was done deliberately or not, it appears to be a foregone conclusion that it was, the issue is more proving it was Letby who did it deliberately or another nurse/Dr who did it deliberately.

 

[dual2099]

The salsa texts made her seem more normal to me if something horrible happens at work and you live alone you wana get out don’t you.
I don’t understand why it’s part of the prosecution.

They are building a picture, in isolation innocent enough, but what we are expecting to see is a pattern building and her ‘testing the waters’ to see what the reaction to her is.

We can already see from the reaction of the texts that this amount of deaths is unusual. She also claims in earlier texts to be very affected by it. Now we are seeing a more nonchalant attitude. ‘ oh dear, nothing I could do ‘ etc and then off salsa dancing. Ok, not a crime in itself but they are building a picture which is why it’s important.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

My first post on here been trying to read it all. I’m leaning towards guilty it just seems unfathomable that someone could be so evil. I’m wondering if guilty how premeditated this all was. Did she go into nursing to prey on the vulnerable? Did she choose neonatal care so she could kill these babies? It’s shocking and makes me sick to think about. Feel so bad for the families having to sit in court and look at her. Pray they get answers and justice

What must they have been thinking really? Did some make up an excuse and not go?
‘You can fool some of the people etc’, she must have really been good.

 

[PeninsulaAndOriental]

With reference to two posts above

1. When the wonderful, lovely, nice Dr Shipman was arrested (I’m sure that’s how the Facebook creeps would describe him….oh wait, he’s not a young woman) he had colleagues offering up bail money for him. One GP actually remortgaged their house (or something crazy like that) to offer up the money. You can read about this in books on Shipman and also in the Shipman Inquiry.

LL, like all psychopaths, will have worn a ‘mask of sanity’ and will have manipulated her colleagues. Sadly, her physical mask helped her do it greatly (who suspects a plain Jane in her 20s of mass baby murder?)

2. Undoubtedly, the murders themselves were premeditated. She put a lot of thought into them, picked her victims wisely, and she varied her methods of murder.

the variance in methods of murder is actually quite unusual - most serial killers develop a method (with Shipman it was always intravenous morphine, although on a couple of occasions, he gave it intramuscularly - which means into the muscle - this meant his victims could walk around for a while after, speak to relatives etc, which would make it look like he couldn’t have killed them. Although he stopped using this ‘alternative’ method after one, who then died, told a relative he’d given her an injection).

Letby has done this because she just enjoys the drama of death and killing. There’s no Beverly Allitt here. She’s extremely calculating, and (I hate to say this) quite clever. I really do shudder - if it wasn’t for the insulin cases, I don’t think a conviction would be clear cut here.

and I’m in the 101% guilty camp.

HELP

Is there an app I can download to post on this forum? I’m finding my iPhone isn’t liking the safari version (freezes, ignores paragraphs etc)

many thanks x

 

[Haveyouanywool]

Gonna be honest, I have my doubts she will even go down for the insulin stuff. For me it really hangs on the c-peptide levels and proving that the insulin was deliberately administered, but that sort of thing is actually really complicated to understand. I’m educated more than the average person in this area and even I struggle to understand the science behind it to be honest, that’s why I think it will be really hard to convince a jury of her guilt.

I’m going to stick my neck out and say she’s going down. Key thrown away.
The expert, hopefully, will explain the insulin. The Jury don’t have to understand it at a molecular level. Just: it was synthetic insulin, someone done it. That’s already agreed. The battle is more than half won.

 

[Rippedjeanmaybe]

I’m going to stick my neck out and say she’s going down. Key thrown away.
The expert, hopefully, will explain the insulin. The Jury don’t have to understand it at a molecular level. Just: it was synthetic insulin, someone done it. That’s already agreed. The battle is more than half won.

I agree. I think the insulin stuff is becoming more over complicated than needs be.

Bottom line is, the insulin has been proven to be synthetic & there’s no way it was an accident. That’s all anyone needs to know really.

Someone did it and it’s looking likely to be LL.