Lucy Letby Case #16

[Daisydunn15]

I honestly can't get my head around a consultant identifying a cause of death that they're not convinced by and then telling the parents that there's 'little point' in a PM and it wouldn't tell them much. Absolutely awful.

 

[PeninsulaAndOriental]

The Facebook Brigade really are shocking. I just logged on to Face book this morning, and some of the excuses they’re making for her.

The insulin machine did it itself, because it ran out and injected air, is now the narrative of one of the people on Facebook.

Why are people defending her to such abnormal and perverted extremes??? I have never seen anything like this before.

pAndO

 

[wishiniwasskinny]

But she documents bile at 9pm and omits feed, its not like she's claiming he was perfect at 9 and there was nothing to note. Maybe documenting in retrospect she forgot all about the small amount of blood after the events of the night.. maybe she's a lying, murderous cunt, who knows? I just don't understand what she's gaining by saying that didn't happen if it did, when she's documenting the aspirate and he's known to have feeding issues.

Is it because mum says she went down to the ward for 9pm as she knew there was a feed due and she had expressed milk for this purpose. When she got there the baby was crying and Lucy was about, and he had blood around the mouth that she found very distressing. She says she expressed her concerns to LL and she told her not to worry and go back to her ward. Where she promptly phoned her husband at 9:11 ans told him. Lucy has then apparently documented none of this and only that feed was omitted. She is then claiming this convo seemed to not happen at all and instead mum came to the ward later when there were concerns - wasn’t dad summoned at 10:52pm?
So it would seem mums evidence about this earlier convo/incident is pretty damning that LL was nearby when baby was in distress and LL appears to have done nothing about it and not recorded it. Possibly as mum did catch her in the midst of something ominous and she fobbed her odds

 

[LittleMy]

Then ignore the posts! It really is dull to have this same conversation day in day out. We are adults you’re right so we can all learn the art of ignore and move past it.

Don’t take stuff personally, we’re on an anonymous forum there’s literally no point letting it affect you.

I’m trying to, believe me. I don’t even contribute to the arguments but I do read along! Just stating my opinion from the sidelines as someone who enjoys following the trials but can’t be arsed with the playground behaviour.

 

[Deeznutslol]

@Deeznutslol I am still thinking about the explanation for the chicken/arse washing. Please share

Ahh so basically it was a debate about do you wash your chicken before cooking it or not, some members pointed out that there are a multitude of studies which suggest that washing chicken is unnecessary and can spread salmonella and campylobacter round your kitchen, other members were of the opinion that if you don’t wash your chicken then you’re a dirty unwashed chicken muncher. (please let’s not start this argument again here now though because it transpired that people genuinely have very strong opinions on this topic) This argument went on for literally an entire thread, so then I tried to change the topic by asking if people wash their arse after having a shite or not and it basically imploded lmao. After everyone finally moved on, it became a running joke to bring up chicken/arse washing whenever a discussion got too heated in order to calm the thread down lol.
Unfortunately it didn’t work and the thread ended up getting shut down by mods eventually because it ended up with people posting the most bait UOs on there just so they could watch it kick off haha.

 

[xoxo GG]

Honestly this thread has been a minefield tonight. Can’t do right for doing wrong I don’t care what people think of me or my posts. I just don’t reply to anything I disagree with, or posters that the conversation is just going round In circles with, as I’m trying not to let anything to do with me derail tonight. There have been everywhere tonight though

Nobody is trying to bait by not singing from the same hymn sheet. The above post is an attempt to get people to bite though.

 

[IGiveUp22]

This is another medic that has gone back on decisions based on 'hindsight' / knowledge that someone has been charged though. It feels 'off' and it's not based on conspiracy theories or 'innocent at all costs', I just find it absolutely incredible that such huge decisions were made at the time if there was any inclination that it wasn't 100%.

I don’t disagree with you questioning them changing their mind at all. Don’t think it’s you trying to push the innocent train or a conspiracy theory. I think it’s reasonable to try and understand why a) this wasn’t the conclusion at the time & b) is it a fair conclusion now.
I think if the defence has stated they thought the cause of death was 100% NEC for this baby in the opening statement I’d of been more viewing the change of opinion as confirmation bias.
I actually view this as her making a extremely horrendous medical mistake & admitting it but appreciate we might view things differently

 

[Weeder]

I’m hopeful over the next few months that new members join Tattle and we get an influx of some new fresh chat. It very much feels like some people’s lives are completely taken over by this case, there’s definitely some members not getting their daily 10k steps in I’m going to dip out for a few days for my own mental health (and step count).

I dare say tomorrow will be another hard read. To anyone affected by similar situations please do be kind to yourselves.

Me too, I'm out. This place is like being beaten over the head with rage.

 

[Tofino]

This was in the MailOnline not in the live reporting

On August 9, four days after Letby is alleged to have followed up the murder of Baby E with the insulin poisoning of another infant, she gave an account of saying her goodbyes to the ’ parents.

She told Ms Jones-Key that both parents had cried and hugged her, 'saying they’d never be able to thank me enough for the love and carer I gave them'.

Letby said: 'I just feel sad that they’re thinking of me when they’ve lost him'.

Just over three months later, Letby was told that the parents of Baby E and Baby F had come into the neonatal unit with a 'gorgeous huge hamper' for the staff. She was also told their surviving son looks 'fab'.

Letby said: 'Oh gosh, did they? I wish I could have seen them. That will stay with me forever'.

yet police interview says
She remembered Child F, but had no recollection of the incident and "had not been involved in his care".

We also have this to come:
In a November 2020 interview, Letby is asked why she had sent a text referring to Child E had queried whether he had Down Syndrome. She said she could not remember whether there had ever been any mention of Downs in the medical notes.

 

[Faith61]

It’s crazy I’m all for being open minded I was at the start but I do think gui now . but to say not guikty and no reason why is insane actually worrying . You can’t even have rational conversations because you get attached by multiple people . I made a comment earlier on a Facebook post and within five minutes 12 people got aggressive with me for saying she’s guilty .

im sorry but it’s not a coincidence that all these babies are either passing away or collapsing whilst in her care .

I've given up even trying to converse with some of them....
I've said numerous times I "think" she is guilty but today has just sealed it for me, I don't think anything could sway me to think otherwise now

 

[LittleMy]

I think it's the sneering people object to. The implication is anyone who doesn't think G is a tin foil hatter or a conspiracy theorist, or a bit thick or doesn't understand.

I do find it very condescending the way some G voters speak to those who are on the fence or keeping an open mind.
If someone’s opinion riles you that much then maybe only reply to the ones you agree with. Some NG/unsure people voiced why they felt that way last night and only got piled on for it (is “unlucky” the new “fella” or what? I don’t get the need for snide remarks like that ).

FTR I think she’s guilty.

 

[PenelopeTitsDrop]

Sorry it is not a misrecording of times. What mum says happened - Letby says in police interview that it did not happen, not that it happened at a different time. So you actually do have to decide who you believe.

Ah ok. Well ...I think LL is guilty because of the insulin, that hasn't changed.

I do think it will transpire that as with the Kent review and also from personal experience of things I have seen, on bad wards, documentation goes to shit sometimes, people make things up on patient notes to cover their own arses, timings are often a guess, and on and on and on...

I get that the prosecution are painting a picture of LL and it all has to be taken together. But if I was only going on today, rather than knowing what was coming, I couldn't in all honesty convict, despite my gut screaming that she did it, because a liar doesn't necessarily make a serial killer. It could make someone who is absolutely shite at their job and changes documentation to try to cover their arse. I've seen it happen. From nurses and medics.

I also want to say what happens when you have a death on the ward. It's happened to me. You do what you have to do and go numb to deal with it. Afterwards, my brain was simultaneously numb and all over the place. My memory was shot to shit. Any notes I will have written on those shifts, after the death, will have been educated guesses. If they had times in or anything specific, they would be full of inaccuracies. Only the meds card would have been 100% accurate...but I may even have put the wrong time on that too. It's HARD dealing with death as part of your job. Doing CPR on a patient is traumatic. And nurses can't just go "oh well" and finish the shift in the same frame of mind that started it. Nor do the medics. That's why I can see why anything written retrospectively could be full of holes and inconsistencies.

I am not saying LL didn't do this. I am saying that having now read what happened to this baby and turning my emotions off about the poor thing and the horror, on the basis of the facts there's not enough FOR ME to say beyond reasonable doubt. And it actually pisses me off because I thought today would be the clincher.

 

[struggs123]

Facebook groups like that are always full of weirdos. To caveat I don't think they're unhinged because they don't think she's guilty, but some of the mental gymnastics and absolutely wild theories are just outta control. A lot of people on there tend to just be against the system and so anything that could be a cover up of course is beyond any doubt.

 

[feistyoneanddone]

I know there are lots of here, well prob most tbh, that would love nothing more than her to take the stand to clarify and answer questions on things like her behaviour, the kind of questions that a lot on here would like to hear answer to. But, I think at this point not many think she will take the stand, as is her right. It’s very clear that it’s the prosecution’s job to prove her guilt, not the defence’s job to prove her innocence. So even for that reason alone she will possibly be advised not to. Would you mind putting your legal hat on, to let me know in your opinion, do you think there’s any chance at all we’ll see her take the stand when it comes to defence?

I will give a two pronged answer I think. Firstly, I would expect that she would be advised to give oral evidence as the jury is entitled to take an inference if she does not. It would be relatively rare for her to be advised not to give oral evidence. There would need to be very specific reasons for that advice to be given which would be case specific.

Secondly, she has pled not guilty. I cannot imagine pleading not guilty and not wanting to give oral evidence, to let the jury hear your side of the story from your own mouth.

I cannot see there is much chance at all of her not giving oral evidence, I will be very surprised on a professional and personal level if she does not. Remembering of course that she may be advised not to, but decide to in any event.

I do not want to teach anyone to suck eggs, but I wonder if its useful for people to know that unlike in America where you can be “coached” by your representative on what to say when giving oral evidence, that is not permitted here. There can be no practising/preparing in England, you are in the witness box and that’s it. You also cannot discuss the case at all with anyone, including your own barrister or solicitor whilst you are still under oath. So for example if she does give evidence and it goes on for a whole day or into a second day, she cannot talk to anyone connected to the case during the lunch break or overnight.

 

[MmmB777]

Well you tell me, because can she be both? If she has murdered all those babies so far, and this one escalated but the Consultant missed it and put it down as NEC then by God she was incredibly lucky.

Whatever she says now on the stand will be tainted for me unfortunately. There must have been a massive chain of command to ascertain a death and to not stand up and say something if you knew the picture didn't fit, just doesn't sit right with me.


I'm just heading out but can you ping me to remind me please? I'll find it, it was on Twitter somewhere.

I have missed your point I’m afraid? What escalated? So the consultant should have spotted that somebody had murdered the baby but at the same time you don’t think anyone murdered the baby? She would not have known or believed somebody to have given this baby internal trauma to cause blood loss, at any point. She hasn’t said that she thought it was murder but went for NEC - she has said it didn’t fit NEC (more proof that it IS sabotage imo) but that she came to that conclusion with the coroner. That was a mistake because of course now we know it very well could have shown something but as @docmum and @Haveyouanywool it’s quite possible it wouldn’t have changed much immediately anyway. I’m struggling to link up the outrage at the docs decision whilst also believing nobody murdered the babies.

I will stop replying so I don’t get in trouble but will just say this point
Charles Cullen is predicted to have killed 400+ people. 400! On every single one of their death certificates it will have said something. It will not have said ‘poisoned by a nurse’. It will have said the opinion of the doctor at that time. And they would all have been wrong. And the reason they were wrong is because they did not know a nurse was poisoning patients and sabotaging their care in a way that even a court of law and police would find hard to prove.

 

[MmmB777]

I actually think the consultant standing up today to admit she got it wrong, didn’t think about it at the time & wished she’d have pushed for a PM is huge tbh. I really don’t think she’d do that, risking her entire career, unless she was sure she did in fact miss something that could have suggested deliberate cause of death. I can imagine BM will go to town on her though.

Also to the person that asked whether the police interviews would be released? My honest answer is that I don’t know but don’t think they would be. I was more hoping we’d hear them word for word in court at some point.

Yes it’s obviously a big mistake on her part but it does disprove to me that she was at all influenced by police to assume harm because she is giving an account that lays some blame in her role in this at her feet and being honest. Absolutely nobody at the hospital involved in this is coming out better. I believe she would have never thought about somebody causing a baby to lose that much blood, it likely never crossed her mind once.

 

[IGiveUp22]

“Letby: "It's the luck of the draw...unfortunately."

Anyone thinking this is feeling very similar to her “element of fate comment”

Yeah so this was the language I was referring to earlier. I know people are different but I could just never imagine replying that. I’ve mentioned previously that I’ve worked in a police setting (not children) but I would never have spoken about DV victims should I have had a run of particular nasty jobs (which did happen, no death though). Surely the more appropriate response would be “I know honestly have no idea what’s happening here, it was so sudden. They all have been. I might speak to X dr/senior because it just doesn’t seem right. That poor baby & their family. I think I need some time off just to process all this”
If she’d had responded in such way I wouldn’t be so firmly in the guilty camp, I reckon I’d be swinging back & forth (maybe not after today) but those people on here that have made comments about “I don’t see what’s wrong with her texts” etc this is how I’d best describe what I find wrong with them. They’re just “off” & the response I’d written myself would be one I’d be expected if that makes sense?

 

[Daisydunn15]

I get that but Charles Cullen killed patients, for 16 years, in a ‘for profit’ healthcare system. There have been killer nurses in Europe.
Why is this murder trial being turned into an excuse to constantly bitch about the NHS?

Because some of the care offered to these families was awful, and they deserve to be called out for it. I'd be saying the same thing if it was a private hospital, the NHS doesn't deserve to be put on a pedestal simply because it's the NHS.
There are some wonderful professionals in the NHS, I've worked in brilliant teams and seen some excellent care. I've also seen some rubbish care that has led to avoidable deaths.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

Further update for anyone not on Twitter so missing live reporting
Also the posters that have already suggested the defence will rip the Dr to shreds weren’t far wrong

View attachment 1735069View attachment 1735071

It annoys me that by not taking the stand (I'm assuming she won't) that Letby gets to avoid this kind of treatment but the parents and her colleagues who are not on trial are put up on the stand, ripped apart and to some extent, vilified.

 

[Weeder]

Morning all,
I’ve been having a think with my cod psychotherapy hat on (not a trained professional) and I’ve been wondering whether some of the to and fro on the thread could (and bear with me on this one) tell us something about the feelings on the ward at the time of the allegations.

I wonder if we (the tattle thread) are playing out some of the dynamics that were about at the time Perhaps between those who were suspicious but had no proof and those who were going to wait until the reviews happened and due process followed?

also, it’s been bugging me and I’ll just go ahead and say it. I can’t change my profile name. But I am not a boy and I am not a tennis ball. These were things that popped into my head upon making the account.

My user name is because when I joined I had the hump I wasn't getting help with the garden.
It's since been pointed out it looks like I have a marijuana habit. I'm saying nought

Morning all,
I’ve been having a think with my cod psychotherapy hat on (not a trained professional) and I’ve been wondering whether some of the to and fro on the thread could (and bear with me on this one) tell us something about the feelings on the ward at the time of the allegations.

I wonder if we (the tattle thread) are playing out some of the dynamics that were about at the time Perhaps between those who were suspicious but had no proof and those who were going to wait until the reviews happened and due process followed?

also, it’s been bugging me and I’ll just go ahead and say it. I can’t change my profile name. But I am not a boy and I am not a tennis ball. These were things that popped into my head upon making the account.

My user name is because when I joined I had the hump I wasn't getting help with the garden.
It's since been pointed out it looks like I have a marijuana habit. I'm saying nought