Lucy Letby Case #15

[Daisydunn15]

Tbf I've had people pile on pulling apart my comments, it's to be expected in such a difficult case, it feels a bit one sided sometimes but then the majority vote guilty so I guess it will

I haven't been on much the past few days, not because of the arguing, but just catching up now.
I have to agree with comments about the medical experts, some of what they've said is just not sitting right with me and feels like they've dug their heels in on certain points. To argue that the rash matches the article description when it hasn't, is a lie. To say that an ICU baby 'could not be doing better', is a lie'. Disregarding poor practice as standard is not good enough.
I also don't like the comments about the mother's interpretation of the baby, or whether the dad caused the first collapse - so parents are poor historians when it suits but then they 'think' they saw LL by a monitor it's gospel

Last weekend was all fellas ahoy, kitten heel slander and matalan haters. Now look at us 🥲

This is our karma for slagging off matalan like I dont have the app on my phone and browse it most days

 

[IGiveUp22]

What reasonable, innocent explanation is there for this baby nearly leaving the hospital to bleeding to sudden collapse to dead in the space of what, 2 hours?

This. This is what I can’t get my head around if I try think “okay, maybe it was poor care” why didn’t she help that baby??? Why didn’t she raise the alarm??? Why was she in there & not doing anything??? Mothers intuition is an extremely powerful thing…she knew

 

[Faith61]

And ffs....what's the odds of this little baby's twin brother "collapsing" later?
I do believe in coincidences to a point...but this is no coincidence..and sorry, we haven't even heard evidence for baby F yet...but just throw away the bloody key when get her back to wherever she is " residing" at the minute

 

[MmmB777]

Sorry.. it was too quiet? They’ve just had as many deaths in a month or so as they normally do in a fucking year and work is too quiet? Shut the front fucking door. Guess suboptimal care because the unit was so busy ain’t going to cut it with this one Letterz you floppy hatted cunt.

 

[stardust1]

Absolutely nothing to do with looks. As a human being that chose to look after these tiny, vulnerable human beings as a career.

which I think you can be commended on however it would be naive to believe she wouldn’t be capable because she absolutely COULD have done it and a failing hospital with poorly babies would be the perfect place for it. I understand it is hard to comprehend as ourselves because it is unthinkable but it is definitely still possible. A lot of woman kill babies. A lot of killers have good character references.

 

[struggs123]

Emotions are a weird thing though, not the same but when I used to work taking 999 calls, generally calm callers who said x is happening where always the worst calls; as in, the situation was the worst even though the caller was calm. Not sure how to properly explain it, but it was always odd to me as they're the ones you'd expect to be hysterical or whatever but they were super calm, if you had 2 callers both saying the same thing but one was screaming and crying and one was calm you just knew which would be worse (the response was the same though so didn't assume, just always turned out to be the case). The human mind has lots of mechanisms in when dealing with trauma etc it is fascinating. I don't think showing no emotion in super stressful situations suggests much really.

 

[Tofino]

Spoiler: Trigger upsetting

A blood transfusion is started for Child E at 12.50am, and several adrenaline doses are administered.

Letby's note, for 1.01am, reads 'chest compressions no longer required'.

For 1.15am, Letby notes 'further decline, resus recommenced'.
CPR was discontinued at 1.23am - 'resus discontinued when [Child E] was given to parents. [Child E] was actively bleeding...'

I mean, WTAF?! Bleeding so much baby needs a transfusion? This just sounds so horrific. Please somebody tell me why the hospital/coroner didn’t think it was necessary to do a PM. Can this happen with sepsis? NEC? I assume if some sort of blood disorder then an identical twin would have it too?

 

[OldBlondie]

The mother’s evidence in court today

It’s so hard listening to how these babies were so close to escaping the hospital and LL. I just think that this (for me) confirms that all of the parent’s accounts to be far more truthful than LLs. Listening to the mother today is so so heartbreaking, and can understand why some people may need to dip out. Personally I agree with the PP she is an absolute monster. Evil and twisted and extremely devious and calculating, sorry for anyone that may not agree, I just can’t see anything but that at this point

 

[Weeder]

Hello fellas
I'd like to shamefacedly apologise for jumping in with both feet yesterday.

I agree with the points made, but feel we've made progress, I was just smarting and feeling like there was no point raising stuff, then to come home to multiple tags... Well I was uncomfortable and everyone was a cunt. I sincerely apologise.

I will try and explain myself better but I'm not as eloquent as some of you.

To @Haveyouanywool in particular, erm... That was 'rash' of me, but hopefully you get my frustration.

I'd love to blame the menopause or the full moon..so I will.
The Kent document is everything.

 

[Treesy19]

That brave mother having to stand here today and recount the worst day of her life. LL IS evil and cruel.

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

Morning! I’ve dipped out a bit (been a very busy week). I’m a bit lost after the last few days struggling to keep up. I’ve skim read but my head hurts . Polite ask, would humans mind putting some paragraphs in their long posts pretty please moving forward ?

I struggle to read big chunks without any, and I am finding my self passing over those quite often at the moment. So I am probably missing out some very valid points of discussion and just look like I’m being a nob and ignoring them.

I would be very great full if posters wouldn’t mind. But if you would rather not, that’s fine also . Happy Sunday everyone

 

[candyland_]

Um ..

Letby's note: 'both parents present during the resus. Fully updated by nursing and medical team throughout. Parents wished for [Child E] to be baptised....

'Child E was bathed by myself and photographs taken as requested, both were present during this. Consent obtained for [hair] and hand/footprints...'

was consent obtained the mother in the evidence earlier seemed surprised by the memory box she received! Any one else notice this? Or have I got it wrong ?

The mum didn’t request the photos.. she was surprised to get them.

 

[friedeggontoast]

This mum is so brave to do this.

 

[Hinchawakening]

Ok Fella I’ll bite. I have said in my posts about a million times. Even with all the negligence on that unit, it is still not enough to explain all these sudden collapses/deaths. If for whatever reason one example of negligence caused a collapse, then the treatment administered to counter act that particular problem (from the alledhed negligence) would reverse it. These babies did not respond clinically how they should have done, like the resuscitation attempts did not have the normal affect they should have. I’m explaining badly but even if a collapse was due negligence, the baby should still respond to any treatment given to counter act, and they didn’t. There’s loads of doctors and nurses and experts dismissing BMs defence theory on negligence being the cause, and then proving why said negligence couldn’t have been the cause. I also found Bohin so credible today because she acknowledged all the medical issues on the unit, as did the experts acknowledge underlying conditions in all babies we’ve heard so far and why they couldn’t have enough alone be the cause. Then when you add of all the circumstantial evidence that has been discussed in depth the last pages and last thread it’s a slam dunk for me. Just out of interest have you re read the wiki on babies E-Q? It seems those that have re read ahead have much different views to those following in real time and only looking at A-D and considering them as stand alone events, not looking at the bigger picture


What you said
I’m also at the point where I give up trying to explain why I think the way I do, people just seem to not actually read the posts. I spent ages copying and pasting so much from wiki and articles to back up every point I’ve made, to show how her behaviour is sinister, I’ve shown examples from further cases where you can’t make excuses anymore. And still some just refuse to read what’s been written. This is not aimed at anyone, but I feel like I’m repeating myself and no one is taking anything on board or actually reading what’s been written. Perfect example of how your view may change if you actually read page 4 of wiki before dismissing what we are trying to say regarding what we know now and using the rest of the cases e-q, @Weeder was on the fence, but was completely open to LL being guilty or not guilty. We’d discussed yesterday various reasons LLs behaviour became sinister. It was suggested Weeder re read page of the wiki. Suddenly lots of things that some of us keep repeating made complete sense, and swung weeder to probably guilty. She’s not completely there yet with all the medical evidence which is fair enough with weeder’s medical background. But the view on the circumstantial changed and all the points we had been making weeder could now see too. Sorry weeder just using you as an example of someone that actually went and read page 4 of the wiki. This is why I think some of us are at a cross roads. Many following this in real time are obvs only going on A-D which is all we’ve heard so far. But please before you keep dismissing our ideas just go and read page 4 of the wiki first. Anyone that has actually done that I think will understand our points a lot more clearly than anyone that hasn’t, and hopefully see why the overall bigger picture of all these cases put together is so important

I’ve read the full wiki. More than once. I read the thread too, Twitter, the live court updates, I’ll search various things and read all that too. I’m still firmly in camp NG. Sorry, but for me it’s all absolute bullshit. I don’t explain much on here my thoughts etc as I’m not trying to sway anyone nor do I want 20 comments telling me I’m wrong (I may well be, time will tell). I appreciate and read each and every opinion and respect them but some do teeter on the verge of witch hunt in my eyes (not you, just in general some I’ve read). I think people are entitled to their view but some are becoming pushy now. Gonna be a long 5 months for the verdict and anything could happen, but for now, my feet are firmly tucked into my sleeping bag here at camp NG x

 

[Aberscot]

Letby, in her July 2018 interview, said she did not remember Child D.
Asked about the Facebook searches for Child D's parents, she said she could not recall making those searches.

This to me is weird too cannot remember the baby that died but looked up the parents how did she remember them?
Poor Baby D survived 2 attempts , if shes guilty she’s a evil bitch to go back and ultimately murder the poor thing.

 

[Rippedjeanmaybe]

I had a dream last night that I had a daughter and she passed away at birth and then I had to go home because it was my birthday and people were singing happy birthday and acting normal and I just felt this weight on my chest and this deep depression. I woke up feeling awful.

I think the pain that the parents must be feeling is really weighing on my mind. I don’t have children and I have no plans for them, but I can’t imagine how heartbreaking it must be for them to lose their child and then to find out that it could have been prevented.

I can’t stop reading it though, I need to follow the trial and see that justice is done.

 

[stardust1]

I wonder if she deliberately went into nursing with a plan all along to harm others or if it came later. It was said to be her dream job.

I don’t think she did, I think something has potentially triggered it. I think the theory I most believe could be true so far is that she thought she was the best nurse about and when she realised she didn’t always have it her way she then started killing them (i killed them on purpose because I wasn’t good enough to care for them) not good enough meaning wasn’t allowed in the rooms she wanted. I also think she really enjoyed the poor Lucy attention, you can see on some texts she was definitely getting that.

 

[IGiveUp22]

I’m sorry but I really don’t know how the defence can offer anything here after reading the mum’s account. I’m actually heartbroken

 

[stardust1]

Course they would....sure she's questioned herself and asked herself a million times and more ....what if?
Sorry you went through that..must be so tough hearing all this

I can’t stop thinking about the fact she probably trusted them and didn’t even get to take her baby homeIt feels like ben is just trying to make her say her timings are wrong so that Lucy’s notes look like they haven’t been falsified. I hardly doubt the mother has forgot much detail because it is a once in a lifetime sort of event. It sticks with you.

 

[OldBlondie]

She was fucking doing nothing too. Nothing. Please tell me that we can any way compare that to a treatment being late or the wrong phone call or anything else we’ve heard. She wasn’t helping that baby. WHY. There isn’t a mistake she’s made that she could be anguished about or racking her brains about imo. That baby suffered trauma at her hands. How many of these babies did she have involvement with after death, bathing, photos, trying to involve herself in the memory box, taking to the morgue.
She put them through this and then poisoned their other child? I honestly am not an overly emotional person, not that I don’t have heaps of empathy and this case is very upsetting but hearing the mother explain how important it was she gave the babies her milk I related so so hard. She never got to give her baby her milk

There’s a running theme of her doing nothing to help, hurting twins (as if one isn’t enough) and over involving herself in the parents grief and a whole heap of other things.
I guess it’s one thing to read about it on the wiki from prosecution opening, but it’s a whole other actually hearing it directly from the mum