Lucy Letby Case #15

[Weebles Wobble]

Tiny me rail.
When my mum died in her bed at a nursing home she had to have a post-mortem. Not because it was suspicious as such but because it was sudden and she was alone.
Maybe because this poor babies death was attended by physicians a pm wasn’t necessary?

My mum's death was sudden and unexpected, but the paramedics managed to get her to A&E before she died. No-one suggested a PM. I assumed it was because the cause of death was obvious (infection) she was in the hospital, and she'd been examined by a senior doctor on arrival.

Although it was unexpected, she was very elderly and her health had been failing so it wasn't too surprising either. I don't know if a much younger person would have had a PM.

I do wonder if there are assumptions about certain groups of people - premature babies, very frail people with health conditions, very frail and elderly people - that means less questions are asked when they die.

 

[PumpkinxQueen]

I agree with what you say, also the defence will have advised the parents to attend everyday. I know they still have a choice whether to or not, but they maybe believed LL at the start, and with defence advising them to attend, it would definitely look awful for LL if they stopped now

Her parents can’t just turn their love for her off, either. I still see my child as a tiny baby, I always wonder if other parents also still view their child (of any age) as the baby they brought home from hospital - maybe the innocence aspect (?)

 

[Faith61]

We don't know if they're supporting her to be fair, perhaps they feel for various reasons they want to be present. Imagine how frustrating it is for us to not hear all of the detail the court hears them amplify it by x amount if they weren't to attend. I can't even imagine what it must be like to have a child accused of this, personally just my opinion I think them attending perhaps indicates they're open minded rather than blindly supporting her? Either way bloody horrific all round.

Yeah...I feel so bad for her parents.
She's clearly been the apple of their eye and end of the day she's their daughter.
As a parent you obviously don't want to think your child is capable of such horrors...
Today is the first day I've actually thought and said what a vile, sick witch she is...I've wanted to listen to the evidence and was prepared to have my opinion of guilty swayed...but after what I've heard today I can't see anything making ne change my mind
God knows what they're thinking and feeling right now

 

[Haveyouanywool]

Same with the suicide of a family member - was obviously clear how they died, but given their age etc, they still needed the post Mortem. Do any religious grounds prevent a PM? Always thought it would be done in a hospital for a baby, especially when death wasn’t ‘expected’.. (?) also just for medical research reasons etc

I think a suspected (or known) suicide would always be investigated.
A family member died in hospital, the Dr asked the closest relative if they could do a pm to find medical explanations for the death and they said no, I would have said yes, so the pm didn’t happen.
If the Drs were unsure why the death happened I don’t know why they wouldn’t ask the parents, even for a CT scan pm? I know the parents would be extremely distressed so…
Hopefully that will be clarified at some point.

 

[Tofino]

Spoiler: Trigger upsetting

A blood transfusion is started for Child E at 12.50am, and several adrenaline doses are administered.

Letby's note, for 1.01am, reads 'chest compressions no longer required'.

For 1.15am, Letby notes 'further decline, resus recommenced'.
CPR was discontinued at 1.23am - 'resus discontinued when [Child E] was given to parents. [Child E] was actively bleeding...'

I mean, WTAF?! Bleeding so much baby needs a transfusion? This just sounds so horrific. Please somebody tell me why the hospital/coroner didn’t think it was necessary to do a PM. Can this happen with sepsis? NEC? I assume if some sort of blood disorder then an identical twin would have it too?

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

Um ..

Letby's note: 'both parents present during the resus. Fully updated by nursing and medical team throughout. Parents wished for [Child E] to be baptised....

'Child E was bathed by myself and photographs taken as requested, both were present during this. Consent obtained for [hair] and hand/footprints...'

was consent obtained the mother in the evidence earlier seemed surprised by the memory box she received! Any one else notice this? Or have I got it wrong ?

The mum adds they were given a "memory box" by Lucy Letby which "totally surprised" her and included a memory card, a lock of his hair, a teddy, hand/footprints.

The mum said she was "so overcome with emotion" by that, as she had no other memories for Child E.

Another teddy was provided, and the teddies were swapped, so Child F had Child E's teddy bear, and vice versa.

Lucy Letby also presented a picture of Child F, having 'rolled over and cuddled the [Child E] bear', which she said was 'so amazing' so she had taken a picture to give to them.

 

[candyland_]

Is this lack of notes to try and blame an unknown person?

 

[Haveyouanywool]

on that program I mentioned there was a suicide who needed a PM even tho it was obvious. I’m not sure if family can just point blank refuse but google says there must be consent? So if hospital have convinced the mother to not get one maybe she said no or simply didn’t want ome

They can’t point blank refuse if there are suspicious circumstances, or even other circumstances, like if the person died suddenly and alone in a care facility, even if they were old and frail. It all changed after Dr Shipman, at least in the community.

 

[Tofino]

'Child E was bathed by myself and photographs taken as requested, both were present during this. Consent obtained for [hair] and hand/footprints...'

But mum was really surprised when presented with the memory box as hasn’t been expecting it, so was consent actually obtained?

 

[candyland_]

Um ..

Letby's note: 'both parents present during the resus. Fully updated by nursing and medical team throughout. Parents wished for [Child E] to be baptised....

'Child E was bathed by myself and photographs taken as requested, both were present during this. Consent obtained for [hair] and hand/footprints...'

was consent obtained the mother in the evidence earlier seemed surprised by the memory box she received! Any one else notice this? Or have I got it wrong ?

The mum didn’t request the photos.. she was surprised to get them.

 

[Weeder]

Tiny me rail.
When my mum died in her bed at a nursing home she had to have a post-mortem. Not because it was suspicious as such but because it was sudden and she was alone.
Maybe because this poor babies death was attended by physicians a pm wasn’t necessary?
Was there any indication in the (falsified) nursing notes that the baby had been bleeding from the mouth? How did the Dr know that 13mls of blood had been lost?
Not making excuses. Just wondering.

I'm going off to look at it again but I read that in the K word document some babies didn't get sent to PM or the coroner because of the criteria on expected deaths. I'll try and see if I can find it.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

My mum's death was sudden and unexpected, but the paramedics managed to get her to A&E before she died. No-one suggested a PM. I assumed it was because the cause of death was obvious (infection) she was in the hospital, and she'd been examined by a senior doctor on arrival.

Although it was unexpected, she was very elderly and her health had been failing so it wasn't too surprising either. I don't know if a much younger person would have had a PM.

I do wonder if there are assumptions about certain groups of people - premature babies, very frail people with health conditions, very frail and elderly people - that means less questions are asked when they die.

I think it was because my mum was alone, I think that might be the case for all deaths when people die alone in the community, or a care facility now. If there were HCP in attendance that would be different. Dr Shipman caused a lot of changes.

 

[riddleme89]

Didn’t the mum say she let Lucy bath child E as she was not up to it

Lucy notes say both parents present

 

[Tofino]

I wonder whether she initially kept any locks of hair for herself. I’m sure it would have been in opening statement if they had found any but doesn’t mean she didn’t. It would be the perfect trophy for a SK.

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

Lucy Letby also presented a picture of Child F, having 'rolled over and cuddled the [Child E] bear', which she said was 'so amazing' so she had taken a picture to give to them.

I really read this as Letby revelling in their trauma

 

[riddleme89]

mum said she was not expecting a memory box filled with items . Yet Lucy said they was present and wanted it done

So she said consent was given yet the mum said she didn’t know about a memory box being made .

 

[candyland_]

I wonder whether she initially kept any locks of hair for herself. I’m sure it would have been in opening statement if they had found any but doesn’t mean she didn’t. It would be the perfect trophy for a SK.

I’ve wondered this too. She could have taken extra footprints too but I think they would have said by now.

 

[Blockedbyadmin]

How can you complain the NICU is too quiet?! Sorry that is an absolutely odd thing to say

What used to happen when units lie ICU or NICU is quiet the staff are sent out to cover staff shortages in the hospital on the wards etc which staff hate so they’d always prefer a busy unit

 

[OldBlondie]

“Letby's note: 'both parents present during the resus. Fully updated by nursing and medical team throughout. Parents wished for [Child E] to be baptised....
'Child E was bathed by myself and photographs taken as requested, both were present during this. Consent obtained for [hair] and hand/footprints...'”


This was taken from CS live reporting, why is LL falsifying yet more notes, the mum has already stated she knew nothing about memory box and certainly hadn’t given consent.. and certainly had not asked for photos

Why is LL obsessed with doing memory boxes for various children and taking photos of deceased babies, and being involved directly with the parents grief regularly. She is a monster sorry no doubt in my mind

*Edited to say, didn’t realise this has already been said by few other posters I’m a bit behind on thread. BUT it shows we’ve all had the exact same thoughts on this

 

[MmmB777]

Yet again, here we have people noticing.