Mycatoliver
Well-known member
I don’t think it’s a question of whether she is guilty, it’s a question of how many deaths she can be found guilty for.
- Notice
People talking about their internet searches - so let’s say you were arrested & they asked you why you’d searched air embolism…would you just explain & tell the truth or would you claim you couldn’t remember why you searched it?
You’d surely explain it wouldn’t you because it’s really innocent? So this is why i struggle with LL answers about the searches
You’d surely explain it wouldn’t you because it’s really innocent? So this is why i struggle with LL answers about the searches
avabella
VIP Member
I've been thinking about this case a lot and I'm beginning to wonder if I just have a complete mental block on this actually having happened. It seems so incredibly horrific to potentially admit that all of these babies were deliberately harmed, so maybe my brain has a protective mechanism to block any belief in it?
That being said, I'm also hearing the standards of care and am horrified. I'm drawing from experience in my own sector where tolerance levels and thresholds can change based on what you're dealing with (i.e. what I class as 'violent' is definitely not what the general public would class as violent, because my tolerance is so much higher because I deal with it constantly). So to hear the staff saying things weren't 'expected' I wonder if their tolerance has gotten so high because of staff shortages etc that actually, unless a baby was presenting completely off the scale, they 'brush it off' as doing well?
It still bothers me about how many other collapses/deaths happened when she wasn't there. On one part of the transcript today it said they gave medication and the baby collapsed for the 3rd time, and they called LL in. Which is confusing as it reads that she didn't give the medication?
My head is well and truly burst.
That being said, I'm also hearing the standards of care and am horrified. I'm drawing from experience in my own sector where tolerance levels and thresholds can change based on what you're dealing with (i.e. what I class as 'violent' is definitely not what the general public would class as violent, because my tolerance is so much higher because I deal with it constantly). So to hear the staff saying things weren't 'expected' I wonder if their tolerance has gotten so high because of staff shortages etc that actually, unless a baby was presenting completely off the scale, they 'brush it off' as doing well?
It still bothers me about how many other collapses/deaths happened when she wasn't there. On one part of the transcript today it said they gave medication and the baby collapsed for the 3rd time, and they called LL in. Which is confusing as it reads that she didn't give the medication?
My head is well and truly burst.
Rippedjeanmaybe
VIP Member
I’m quite a cynical person and I do tend to read into things quite deeply and to me those texts just seem off. It just seems a lot of fishing for sympathy & I find it strange how she always has to be the first one to tell her colleagues…
On top of that, I think the fate comment is awful. I just don’t understand why you’d say that…
On top of that, I think the fate comment is awful. I just don’t understand why you’d say that…
That one was a bit of a reach cos I’ve no idea what the current trend for cliquey bitches in their mid 20s isI’m also sat here likewith the realisation I don’t have the house of my dreams because I was ‘doing keys in 200 pound dresses’ .
I am inclined to think the economy has more to answer for, but have to admit my “boring friends” who went out once a month and wore the same three tops from Red Herring at Debenhams all through the 00s have lovely houses, and I, erm, don’t.
freaknasty
Chatty Member
I’m under 30 and wearing Matalan pajama trousers right now, what if I’m not a nice fella
friedeggontoast
VIP Member
I think things will change when we start heading about the babies killed by insulin poisoning. That is something that can’t be denied. So it’s not a question of did it happen, it’s who did it.
Faith61
VIP Member
paulpercy666
Chatty Member
not sure about much except to say, i don’t think that her not wanting to go for counselling in and of itself is suspicious - purely because the times in my life when i have been through some extremely traumatic things, i havent wanted to speak to a therapist either despite the encouragement of friends/family, not because ive done anything wrong or am lying about what happened, i just felt completely unable to verbalise my emotions and didn’t see much point in it. in fact, I felt (at the time!) that it might even make things worse.
not saying it’s not relevant here, just some other posts implied that not wanting to speak to a counsellor was automatically suspicious
not saying it’s not relevant here, just some other posts implied that not wanting to speak to a counsellor was automatically suspicious
I don’t think the absence of searching methods really says anything when she’s a nurse. She would know injecting air into the bloodstream is likely to be lethal. She would know other things she is alleged to have done will harm the babies like air via NG tube and excess milk. Some allegations are physical harm.
I am interested to know if later on when she realises people are getting suspicious if she googled anything. Even if she was innocent and you believe the note was written in anguish you would expect her to Google something. If there is nothing at all I’d be more inclined to think she used a second device that was never found. Probably in the North Sea! (Rebekah Vardy joke).
I am interested to know if later on when she realises people are getting suspicious if she googled anything. Even if she was innocent and you believe the note was written in anguish you would expect her to Google something. If there is nothing at all I’d be more inclined to think she used a second device that was never found. Probably in the North Sea! (Rebekah Vardy joke).
I'm becoming quite concerned I might end up in court one day and become a tattle thread. Can someone at least get me a court artist that can be bribed?
I don’t get this, if you’re covering someone’s break you just write something like “0140 - cover for Nurse Letby rest break, appraised of patients condition by shift coordinator” or something, print and sign then just document as normal until you hand back over?
Same with medication, just say what you did - sometimes on nights there’d be newly qualified nurses with no IV competency as far as the eye could see, so you’d spend the whole shift making up IVs and going to check patient ID to start the IV and you’d just write in the notes as normal and put your name/job title/signature to what you’d done like anything else. You wouldn’t sign retrospectively for something someone else did. Worst case scenario you might find nobody has written anything while you were away from your patient so you’d just say where you were eg on break, in CT with pt no xxxxx or whatever, cares given by x nurse during these times and ask them to write their own cares up in the notes. I was always taught to write the time you wrote and put written in retrospect if you had an emergency or something. You’re as accurate as you can be because you never know!
I also forget pretty much everything, if I got asked to be a witness for anything like this I’d probably only have my notes to go on. There are things I recall in more detail but honestly even really traumatic stuff, I’ve probably forgotten patient names. I’m more like nice man in his 60s, lovely hair, wife ran a sweet shop, he had a major bleed and it was so sad, I was working with Abdul and Anna type memories. I think this is why I’ve been able to do my job for so long but I’d be a crap witness seven years later!
Sorry that was a long tangent and the thread will have moved on
I should have quoted this post too, hopefully my rambling makes more sense now!
I’d also differentiate things I’ve done and seen from things others tell me, eg informed by Dr X that patient had episode of confusion, HCA Z reports bowels well opened on commode, that sort of thing. Not because I’m madly cynical and think my colleagues are all at it, but you can get mixed up when you’re busy and if HCA Z took two elderly ladies to the loo in a half hour period they could be genuinely mistaken that it was yours who pooed!
If you didn’t see the poo, you can’t definitively state that there was a poo.
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Takemetoyourbuffet
Chatty Member
Feels an appropriate time to share the pencil analogy posted by another user back in an early thread. I've screenshot it as she put it so well (apologies if that's not the right Tattle etiquette, I couldn't work out how else to share it) and it made me think about all those little things that didn't add up but also didn't seem significant enough to find her guilty.
mRsKbRoOkS
VIP Member
It was because the c-peptide levels did not match the insulin levels. If it was naturally occurring insulin created by the body, a person would have high levels of c-peptide in their blood to match. This was the case in both child F and and child L. It was not a naturally occurring event there is no doubt about that.
I also think this is in an interesting bit of evidence for child F - "No other baby on the neonatal unit was prescribed insulin at the time."
I guess there is always that argument that one could say, oh but what if a nurse just accidentally administered insulin to the wrong baby, while also getting the dose completely wrong
. However, no other baby was prescribed insulin, so makes it seem even more deliberate. You can’t just start accidentally giving patients random doses of insulin when it was never prescribed to anyone on the ward at the time.
MmmB777
VIP Member
Haha me with the ‘she enjoys a browse in Matalan one’Firstly I'm probably old enough to be some of your mothers and I don't shop in Bon Marche, and secondly I have the double leather Pandora I got for my 40 th.. And I only wear like 4 things on it from our travels.. So yah boo sucks fellas.....
Wackie Jeaver
VIP Member
I'm pretty firmly in the Guilty camp, but I do sometimes agree with some of the caveats people are raising.
To me though, she's either the world's most unlucky/incapable nurse, finding herself in all these awful situations just by coincidence.
OR, she's guilty. I do accept that CCOH care was not always the best, but that doesnt add up to this amount of babies dying when they weren't expected to.
To me though, she's either the world's most unlucky/incapable nurse, finding herself in all these awful situations just by coincidence.
OR, she's guilty. I do accept that CCOH care was not always the best, but that doesnt add up to this amount of babies dying when they weren't expected to.
While I partly agree with you, I know what it's like to be the odd one and I've been really badly victimised at work before. Beigeness and being like we're saying doesn't usually result in ostracisism.. In fact I found they were the worse for it.. Real mean girls.
oh my I haven’t laughed so much in days!
I’m guessing this fella hasn’t read all the posts from the other fellas from the last few days. Otherwise they would spot which fella you are on about.
Anyway I’m off to bed now. Goodnight fellas!