Lucy Letby Case #13

[MmmB777]

When they have good care. This trial has uncovered a series of problems with the running of this particular unit that MAY have complromised that (not saying Letby isn't also guilty)

"there's not much left to learn"

That's the craziest thing I've read on here.

Two independent reviews say it didn’t explain it. Do you know more than them? Do you think in the previous years when they had 1/2/3 deaths that they had hundreds more nurses and doctors and nobody was overworked or tired or whatever else is supposed to cause babies to spontaneously go into cardiac arrest?

 

[I’mThankyou_]

I can’t find the post but yes, sometimes the beige people are the horrid ones, I was just musing on cliques and that whole “you can’t sit with us” attitude that is prevalent in a lot of workplaces, but seems to flourish in particular healthcare settings. I remember just thinking Jesus, it’s not year 9, an awful lot of the time.

Letby seems to have gone straight from school to her nursing degree, and I think that does create some weird people for whom it will ALWAYS be year 9.

I’m not a paragon by any means, and I too would put money on the fiat 500/Suzuki swift thing. I bet she likes Michael Buble too.

I just think “hive minds” are dangerous and I do wonder if the unit at COCH was a bit of a toxic place where it was easier for bad practice and wrong uns (not nice fellas?) to get on. LL may well have been a bit of a queen bee herself and blind eyes turned etc.

I completely agree with this. I can definitely see her looking down her nose at any NQNs who started on NICU and perhaps tried to undermine them.
I've found in healthcare the older nurses can also be the bitchiest and the cliquiest (is that even a word)
There's one nurse on my old ward who was the worst for this, infact she nicknamed me appendix when I went off sick with appendicitis. She was the organiser of all the ward outings and get togethers. She was a real old school nurse, she also drove a fiat 500. She was our old basic bitch
My best friend in the world however is 20 years older than me and is the nurse who took me under her wing when I first entered the big bad fiesty world of nursing, she's my cool work Mum who drives a golf

 

[MmmB777]

What’s a functioning psychopath fellas?

Googled it and this came up

 

[OldBlondie]

Ha, thank you! I work in a very specialist sector and sometimes wonder if I'm actually part it myself! Sometimes I am too black and white and see things pretty literally so was worrying I'd missed something really obvious. As time goes on perhaps it'll be clearer.

This is why I like hearing what everyone has to say, none of us see things the same, and I think it’s always good to be aware of other’s perspectives

just to play devil’s advocate, is it manipulative to confide in a colleague that you have been affected emotionally by a challenging situation and are struggling to come to terms with it? if she’s innocent, of course! my only point here is that the prosecution have much more compelling evidence than her texts, so in my opinion they don’t tell us much

I think you’re right, and there’s much more compelling evidence to come, and we probs shouldn’t get too wrapped up in the texts, as it’s clear we all have different views. The reason I think the prosecution are presenting it the way they are though, is it’s all part of them trying to paint the bigger picture, all these little bits that don’t seem much on their own, but when you add them altogether it becomes much more clear about her actions and the relevance of these kind of messages. They seem to be basing a lot of their case on the patterns we will see emerge, so like another poster (@MmmB777) said it’s all these little subtle anomalies and contradictions (that seem minor atm), but in the end all add up to be a big deal

 

[Deeznutslol]

right, @Bakers put us all out of our misery and please explain exactly who the fella is and why he is not nice?
I feel like I literally NEED to know at this point

 

[candyland_]

This might sound silly but I’ve came across people over the years that would break nice things other people had because they were jealous and didn’t have it themselves. Others might sabotage others friendships/relationships because again they didn’t have that themselves.

I wonder if there’s an element of LL taking away other peoples happiness because her own life was empty. Another poster pointed out that some of the dates were around hens/weddings so she could have came into work feeling worse than usual feeling pent up with the same rage we saw in her note.

 

[avabella]

Absolutely no need for their comment...we all have our opinions and thoughts and most of us have the ability to respect that

Thank you - I know I've had some 'to-do's' but I think the thread has fairly evened itself out recently, we're all 'settling in' as it were.

I’ve reported their post xx

Thank you - I know you and I haven't seen eye to eye at times so it means a lot.

 

[Daisydunn15]

the panorama program about the MH hospital somewhere in Manchester was absolutely horrific. Don’t understand why people go into caring jobs just to abuse their power

Yup, I'm a mental health nurse and honestly we do get an awful time because half of our patients don't want our help but need it and the other half want something that we just can't give them or doesn't exist. It's a difficult job and I've seen some nurses who have become really hardened and spiteful, they're the minority but there's a few in every team I've worked in. I used to work in a children's MH hospital which was closed down because of tragic deaths (after I left) and honestly I wasn't surprised, it was a matter of time.
Even a good nurse can become something they don't want to be if they're burnt out and move to a shit unit with a bad culture, it's sad when these are such vulnerable people.

 

[friedeggontoast]

I believe she absolutely got a kick out of seeing their pain so it wouldn’t shock me. I wonder if she ever had a boyfriend at all.. someone that got off on big lower faces and frumpy outfits. I know a neighbour said that they’d seen her with a male at the house but I dunno.. I think knowing beige baps it was probably Tom/Matt who I think are cousins.

I get the feeling she was the type to be overly close to her cousins. Like take bubble baths together as adults


just joking

 

[Daisydunn15]

Lots of comments about her not ‘looking’ evil but what does evil ‘look’ like?

It doesn’t present in your physical appearance, the two are completely unrelated. There are so many examples of this.

I worry that the way she looks is the reason so many people think she’s NG. Because she looks innocent, she must be. I can only hope the jury see beyond her looks.

Also seeing a post above about BA not fitting the western beauty standards but in a way she did. Her hairstyle was so typical of that generation, she was white, she was ‘normal’ looking, just like LL

But then people can be very bias about ugly people. I bet there are defendants who look more creepy and the first impression the jury gets by looking at them could sway their decision even if they were innocent. Personally I think she looks very normal, probably exactly what I'd expect a 20 something nurse to look like, I don't think the way she looks had made me less reluctant to jump into the guilty camp.

 

[OldBlondie]

Interesting what Baby Ds nurse is saying today, she’s been doing it for 20 years and said she’s never seen rash like it. And she’s pretty sure she was on her break when one of collapses had happened, thinking what’s happened as baby was fine just before she went

Baby went back to normal colour after this collapse and general obs, breathing and gases etc seem to have also come back up too. I can’t believe that all these medics are saying these babies were stable, and therefore collapses to them are them are very unexpected. Like in my head I just don’t believe that so many nurses and doctors would falsify records, and then lie about it in court. I understand some of them might want to kinda save their own skin, but surely not so many doctors and nurses would be doing this and completely lying/falsifying? Especially when it’s becoming very apparent there were so many failings on this unit that we’ve seen plenty of examples of so far? Why then lie under oath and falsify records and not just yes this is what happened, and why it went so wrong. Any medical people know if falsifying records something done commonly, maybe it is

 

[friedeggontoast]

If you check the recent 2022 CQC report , they are still rated as inadequate so looks like it still needs a lot of work

And yet there aren’t reports of babies dying from insulin poisoning etc

 

[gmf21]

I know nothing about NICU, but with adults who need that level of care, they very rarely “suddenly crash” because you’ve got all that monitoring telling you if they’re deteriorating.

So stable or in good condition is in context (although it seems as if all those babies had an ok prognosis) but you wouldn’t be expecting those babies to just go off like they did, which I am guessing is what rang alarm bells, along with the statistics. I think she did it now but will be very interested to hear the defence.

Doesn’t seem we know much about her demeanour in court but I do think the description of her just looking at one of the parents is odd. She can’t be on a tonne of meds that affect her functioning or she’d not be fit to attend I wouldn’t think, so one assumes that’s not influencing her reactions.

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

i can’t get over the kitten heels ! Please please anyone reading this now and doesn’t want to admit to the fact they own a pair of these. Do yourself and everyone a favour right now and get them in the bin or burn them on your bonfire tonight ! Do not I repeat do not charity shop them, they need eradicating there is absolutely no place in society for these not anywhere. Also throw away or burn your primark dolly shoes with the elastic bow on, or any dolly shoes for that matter (if you arn’t 8 and under there is no excuse for these). If you want to be comfy and wear flats, crocks in sports mode (even on a night out) are much more acceptable than either of the options above

 

[Haveyouanywool]

Maybe I’m being really old fashioned but would LL have medical and nursing textbooks relevant to her uni courses and extra studies? There would be lots of information in those she could use, for guidance on nefarious activities, while still having a legitimate reason to own them.

 

[Parsnipface]

Matalan fucks me off as well. Cunts. And they owe me £14.

Anyway fellas you're on to something with her dress sense, I think it ties into what I couldn't articulate about her texts to colleagues. She's got older friends and dresses older, the fact she is worried in early 20s about marriage and babies like her time is running out, it's not normal! Esp when she's actually an established career, owns a home etc, she seems to copy, I suppose we say mask now, but she's making herself older. She must feel older. Most women wouldn't dress so old even granny aged.

I'm dying to know about her high school experiences etc, she reminds me of a dowdy student, if you get what I mean?
Awkward, gawky, tall and very skinny type who instead of turning into a Swan, just never fit in.
Maybe things like hen do's felt like hell for someone who wants those things and doesn't have a partner.

Older people seem safer if people your own age haven't been kind to you. I think she was desperate for her colleagues to be bffs and be apart of the older nurses clique.

Once again soz for my waffling.

 

[MmmB777]

This might sound silly but I’ve came across people over the years that would break nice things other people had because they were jealous and didn’t have it themselves. Others might sabotage others friendships/relationships because again they didn’t have that themselves.

I wonder if there’s an element of LL taking away other peoples happiness because her own life was empty. Another poster pointed out that some of the dates were around hens/weddings so she could have came into work feeling worse than usual feeling pent up with the same rage we saw in her note.

I believe she absolutely got a kick out of seeing their pain so it wouldn’t shock me. I wonder if she ever had a boyfriend at all.. someone that got off on big lower faces and frumpy outfits. I know a neighbour said that they’d seen her with a male at the house but I dunno.. I think knowing beige baps it was probably Tom/Matt who I think are cousins.

 

[Daisydunn15]

Oh God I had 2 pairs of kitten heels. It was 2001 and the rest of me was suitably half naked. Does it count??

It counts, sorry.
I had the button ugg boots and the PB handbag with extra bag charms though so I'll see you in 00s fashion hell

 

[coffeeandwine]

Hi! New to this thread but have been following the LL case from afar.

Thought I'd chime in on the LL shutting down counselling thing: I work in a mental health unit. Obviously you see some horrific things there sometimes and, while I've never taken it up, we do have counsellors we can contact and the psychologists also do sessions with the wards where incidents can be discussed. Again, I've never used the counselling but it's there and I would use it in a heartbeat if I felt I needed it.

LL turning it down in isolation isn't unusual to me. Lots of people prefer to carry on, suppress their feelings or talk to someone they know (a colleague, partner, friend, parent - whoever). She may have been one of them. However, when paired with the other stuff, I can see why it raises red flags: in her texts she's clearly putting across how vividly affected she is by what's happened, but when it comes to the professionals she either doesn't want to engage (like with a counsellor) or is suddenly very vague in her recollections (like the police interviews). The two don't add up. Someone who is searching for the families on Facebook months later suddenly acting like she doesn't remember details of the shift, her thoughts or feelings when questioned by police just screams covering her tracks to me. Whereas on its own, not wanting to talk to a counsellor would just be one person's way of dealing with things. Hope that makes sense!

 

[Deeznutslol]

Are we doing thread names?
I thought the general consensus was not to have jokey titles given that these threads are to discuss an ongoing murder trial, and out of respect for the families. Would hate for them to potentially come across these threads one day, not understand the ‘in joke’ titles and think we were taking the piss .