I'm confused about why the doctors were so shocked that 800g seriously premature babies that can't feed or breath properly would suddenly deteriorate and die. Is that not why they were in ICU in the first place because they are at high risk of complications and death? They seem oddly determined in their evidence that this simply can't happen and the only explanation is murder. As a lay person this seems odd. If I was on the jury I would need a bit more convincing about the cause of death being deliberate and not a consequence of prematurity and/or negative effects of treatment efforts which has been suggested.
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Her presence alone isn’t the only evidence in the cases we are currently hearing. I really don’t want to get into a big disagreement but you do seem to wilfully not want to understand what the case against Letby is with the insulin poisonings.
I’m just not sure I understand your points because you don’t seem convinced by anything we’ve heard so far but you think it would be a stronger case if witnesses could say Letby was just in the room for the other deaths? I would imagine the other deaths are a combination of explained deaths (of which there could have been a handful) and deaths that are harder to prove as Letby until she’s convicted of these ones. We won’t know until the trial is over I’m sure. Somebody also mentioned the police only being able to concentrate on a certain time period of crimes to start with also but I can’t remember the details on that, maybe I misunderstood.
I’ve said it before and I will say it again. Yes sometimes babies in ICU do die but you need to give a lot of these babies more credit, they absolutely can fight and they absolutely can come home. Not once will I pretend it is an easy journey but NICU is not a death sentence.
Because with the medical advancements we have its unusual for an 800g baby to die in the way they did when there were no obvious palliative conditions, and despite being born early and small they were making amazing efforts to sustain their own life.
Preemies will always be high risk and at risk of crashing but not in the way this little one did.
Being an 800g baby isn't a death sentence.
honestly I dont know, I was just speculating on reasons why they might not have enough evidence even if they thought she was involved.
With the insulin, the problems started with the first bag, not the second. experts are saying it was the first bag she had access to and hung, and even though she wasn’t there when they changed to the second bag, it could have been contaminated by the first (via giving set was something they said). The experts seem very certain that the first bag had to be the one that was tampered with but we obviously need to hear it in detail. Won’t be long actually as that was baby F.
Just adding from Wiki below as it explains how the second bag can be contaminated by the first better than I can.
What am I deliberately ignoring with the insulin?
If an 800g baby is in ICU, they will be hooked up to the necessary tubes, oxygen, etc. if they are considered 'stable' in terms of that input is all working optimally, there is no reason they should suddenly deteriorate and die.
Tofino has given you a good response there and that really is all there is to the insulin. The issue was believed to be with the first bag, Letby hung the first bag. She didn't physically have to be there when the child crashed as she had already put things in motion before she left.
Have you read their testimonies? They explain why.
That’s one baby you’ve mentioned there, there are many more in this case. And no, from what I’ve heard and gathered from everybody here and the trial… babies rarely suddenly go into cardiac arrest and die, especially not when they have progressively been getting better. Have you read all of the wiki for each baby? It’s very informative. Granted, poor baby C is a trickier one because of a difficult start but there was obvious shock from everybody at what was going on, these babies shouldn’t have died. Just looking at the figures for other years shows you why they would also feel incredibly shocked at the “bad run” they were experiencing, only one person experienced them all though.
I’m not disputing the insulin evidence at all, I don’t know how to explain what I mean exactly so bare with me, I’m saying with the insulin she had a very limited opportunity it’s she spiked the first bag or she’s not responsible. I’m just speculating that if she was at any other death her presence on that shift would give her more opportunity than that insulin case imo and I think the prosecution could find a “story” that made sense. But again though we don’t know about the other deaths,
No KNOWN reason.
I watched the good nurse and it seems when insulin is in a bag the poisoning effects are relatively slow and build up over time (presumably quicker in a tiny neonate but not as quick as air embolism I presume).
I have been building up to watching that but might have to wait for the trial to be over tbh!
I must say as someone who spent a lot of time in NICU and worried if we would even go home it is really lovely seeing how many with no experience of NICU have educated them selves and do not fail to give these babies credit
Some posts I have saw on here come across that the babies were written off from the start because they were in NICU and they would have died anyway. Thinking off the poor parents 
Some posts I have saw on here come across that the babies were written off from the start because they were in NICU and they would have died anyway. Thinking off the poor parents I agreeI must say as someone who spent a lot of time in NICU and worried if we would even go home it is really lovely seeing how many with no experience of NICU have educated them selves and do not fail to give these babies credit
Honestly it’s not as harrowing as this trial really. I mean don’t get me wrong there are some awful bits but the focus is more on how they catch him rather than all his crimes. It’s insightful to show how difficult crimes of this nature are to prove. They really had to get a confession from him for the conviction. It also shows you though the exact type of evidence you’ll find in these crimes and I know I always bang on about it but this case has it in abundance!!
i think I know what you are trying to say. But I think with the insulin ones they can still prove from records that she handled the bag and signed for prescriptions and things directly related to that baby. It’s more compelling than if the records showed for the shift that she was only signing things for a different baby in another room. In reality I don’t know how likely that is but just a thought in my mind as I speculate.
There was also some focus on a lipid syringe she signed for but no second signature. So I don’t know what they are going to suggest - did she use that syringe for the insulin dose?
Like you say we don’t know about the other deaths or how they died, if Lucy did harm all these babies then she used a variety of methods so who knows. But we will see with these cases some will have stronger evidence than others. So it just wouldn’t surprise me if there were some where they think she did it, she was on shift but they don’t have evidence strong enough for whatever reason. Lack of evidence doesn’t mean innocent though. (I know in legal terms - beyond reasonable doubt - it does, but in reality it doesn’t. Just might mean someone was clever enough to get away with a crime.)
Ah okay thank you, I was putting off watching it because I thought it would be too distressing!!
Really sorry if I’ve misjudged and it traumatises you fellaAh okay thank you, I was putting off watching it because I thought it would be too distressing!!
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