Lucy Letby Case #12

[candyland_]

How can it be circumstantial when each and every baby collapsed within 2-15 minutes of her being around them? It’s all there in the prosecutions case.

 

[EllsBellsWells]

I’m really sorry that you feel you have to post a disclaimer, I was trying to share points of view too, wasn’t meant as any digs at anyone. Anything I disagree on I would rather say I agree to disagree on rather than have people feel this way from something I’ve said

No I get that and I appreciate you apologising. It’s not just you (but I’m conscious of also not trying to make vague finger pointing posts) but I just feel like it can be disheartening when we all have really valid points of view.

Also (and this isn’t aimed at you) we’ve all had totally different life experiences and I personally feel we need to take that in to consideration when we listen to each other. People on here have had babies who were in ICU, so it’s going to hit them in a different way, lots of people here work for the NHS and so have experience of these workplaces, some of us have experience of the pitfalls of the justice system and that’s why we question things. Not one of us is right or wrong, we’re just getting snippets of reporting and we’re trying to piece it all together.

 

[Tofino]

MailOnline are reporting baby c lived for FIVE hours after they stopped full resuscitation. I haven’t seen the length of time reported elsewhere but I might have missed it as have been speed reading to catch up. I can’t imagine how torturous that must have been for the parents, it’s beyond traumatic to lose a baby anyway but these circumstances are just heartbreaking


Dr John Gibbs, a consultant paediatrician who had worked for 20 years at the hospital, told the jury at Manchester Crown Court: 'Surprisingly, while we were waiting for the two minister there were some signs of life.

'I hadn't been expecting that. I was not sure initially what to do, because we had stopped full resuscitation. We were only performing a token resuscitation to allow him to be christened.

'I'm not sure why his breathing – occasional gasps – and his heart beats re-started.

'It was five hours (later) when finally no heart beat was heard and there were no further gasping responses'.

By then Dr Gibbs had returned home, but he recalled a colleague, Katherine Davis, a paediatric registrar in the unit, calling him on a number of occasions.

'She called me – I can't remember how many times – to say 'Baby C is still showing breathing effort'.

 

[PatienceImpatient]

Letby was the only member of staff present at all babies ABCD deaths and near deaths. In my mind, there is a mixture of all this in these incidents of- compelling evidence of foul play, compelling evidence of her behaving unnaturally and suspiciously both at the scene and away from it, compelling evidence these babies were doing well and on an upward trajectory before interventions from LL, compelling evidence the babies would have otherwise survived. compelling evidence of air embolism, compelling evidence of recovery from whatever was causing them to crash when away from Letby (eg not a pervasive problem). I personally feel this paints an extremely firm picture. Appreciate others won’t.

And Baby E.

Baby E is the one I dread hearing about the most. That little baby lost 25% of his blood volume and his mum walked in on him bleeding only to be shooed by LL away then told it was from his feeding tube. And LL made no reference to the blood in her notes.

Alleged to have injected him directly in to the blood stream with air. Awful, awful, awful.

 

[MmmB777]

Going back to the looks thing (calling her a basic bitch really makes me laugh by the way) and her not looking like a child murderer.. I honestly believe if she looked like Fred West or David Fuller absolutely nobody at all would have a shadow of a doubt about the writing “I’m evil. I did this. I killed them on purpose” they wouldn’t be thinking it was a phone call or therapy for example imo.

 

[PsychoticPrincess]

The fact Baby D collapses shortly after meds are given…3 times!! With LL signing for each one I feel it doesn’t really matter what time she started her shift.

 

[Rosie878]

Do you think we'll find out if the babies/their families that were targeted have something in common?
It's just weird to me that she was so desperate to get to this baby instead of a baby she was already looking after. Was it so it doesn't look as suspicious because she isn't the designated nurse? Or was she targeting babies who were most vulnerable to lessen suspicion?

 

[I’mThankyou_]

I say this as someone who does audits on systems and processes in the NHS and other industries - just because you've always done it, does not make it correct and you are risking criminal charges, penalties and worse. We run audits at any point, with more frequency now, and I am always shocked at clinical and admin staff who don't seem to understand that just because you can access something, doesn't mean you should - GDPR and data privacy training is mandated for a reason. Most systems are being updated to flag immediately when someone accesses records they shouldn't - we do this with the Metropolitan police already. The minute someone not on the 'permissions' list accesses a case file, there will be a flag sent to their line manager and they'll be called in for questioning.

Everyone knows people can steal when they want to, it's utterly daft to talk about people doing it as a common thing. It's even dafter to think that someone who's been moved to clerical duties because she's under suspicion for access notes breaching policy and risking a disciplinary. This entire conversation kicked off because someone thought LL on clerical duties was going to be reviewing case notes of a death she was involved in a year ago, so that a year later she could remember what her colleague did, but not what she did.

ICO warns NHS staff that unlawfully accessing patient records is an offence

The ICO has reminded NHS staff about the potentially serious consequences of prying into patients’ medical records without a valid reason.

www.digitalhealth.net

Well then you need to take that up with the Health Sec and every Clinical Director & Directorate Manager within the NHS not tattle.

As I have said most people use their access for what it is intended for, when they need to retrieve the relevant information for a paitent they are either looking after, discharging or referring. Some people do not adhere to the rules.

As for "most" systems flagging this up, I welcome you to come to a NHS Trust within the North West because I can tell you now our systems are that old they produce dust.
We don't get all the shiny systems they get where the Met Police will swoop in and arrest a lurky lurker.

 

[PatienceImpatient]

This case is such an emotional one for me. I didn’t read much of the initial news reports when she was charged, just a skim here and there. But when I looked at her picture I thought ‘no way, she didn’t do it, she’s innocent’.

As soon as I listened to the prosecution’s opening statement, the culmination of a painstakingly detailed investigation spanning years, I was firmly in the guilty camp. For me, there is just no way that foul play wasn’t involved here and statistically the blame falls squarely on LL. The note sealed the deal for me and I struggle to understand people who downplay it (not knocking those who do, I’m just saying I can’t wrap my head around it). It doesn’t matter if it was therapy notes, the ramblings of a paranoid woman or a confession note - you don’t write ‘I killed them on purpose’ if you didn’t. Come on.

But to provide some wider context, 8 weeks ago we brought home our first baby. She is healthy, happy, born at term, completely perfect and we got home the same day. We are the lucky ones. I look at her and cannot bear the thought of anyone harming a hair on her head. I am so incredibly devastated for every parent whose life has been irreversibly ruined by Letby. The families of those she murdered must live with constant pain and the families of those she harmed must live with constant guilt. Reading about every one of these babies makes me just want to wrap my baby in a huge protective bubble for her whole life.

I’ll be the first to hold my hands up and say I feel frustrated when I see people on here say she is innocent. I’m not discrediting opinions, everyone is entitled to one and I respect that, I just struggle to wrap my head around it is all. But I’m biased by my own life experience as a new mum here and to an extent, we all are. We all try to rationalise things and that can result in us concluding individually whether she is innocent or guilty.

 

[candyland_]

Doesn't sound like any of the witnesses have been very sure of who was where or what they were doing on the bradys or eventual collapse. I feel like the defence won't have a difficult job of creating doubt around her opportunity.

I know I’ve said this multiple times but she admitted to the police she was alone when Baby C collapsed.

 

[candyland_]

Going back to the dates of the collapses being around colleagues hen/weddings and just after Valentine’s Day..

It could be that she was reeling that those things weren’t happening for her so she took away other peoples happiness in a sick and bitter way. I know we’ve touched on if she wanted that life for herself but I think we can assume she did since she mentioned it in the note.
I’m sure many of us grew up wanting to be married with three kids by the time we were 25 even if we find it laughable now but some people take those life goals seriously and can’t handle it when things don’t go the way they planned.

 

[Aberscot]

From what we have heard so far the unit was understaffed but not to the degree that babies were put in harms way, on several shifts Lucy had time to text on numerous occasions and also leave the baby she was supposed to be looking after to try and get into family room [ she was told on more than one occasion not to!).
Also in every baby collapse there was a Dr on scene trying to resuscitate very quickly so no lack of staff there either.

 

[Walnutss]

I think of the opposite scenario - your baby is dying and you get put in a room and left alone? :-/ then it would be 'they left me in a room on my own with a dying baby'

Regardless of how me and you feel the babies mum felt she was hovering too close for no reason and wanted her to back off

 

[OldBlondie]

Also just saw this on Twitter and it made me laugh, (not that anything to do with LL is a laughing matter). Just thought it would lighten the mood a bit, which I think is needed some times

 

[OldBlondie]

Just thinking something here, but if the hospital failings were the cause of these babies death, through missed infections, lines that have come out etc then wouldn’t the babies decline slowly, not collapse suddenly, staff be able to correct whatever mistake had been made so therefore likely to be able to resuscitate them, and wouldn’t their causes of death be easy to find/explainable in the PM, and no mysterious rashes? No one can dispute that hospital made some huge mistakes with terrible care, but I can’t get relate that to how ALL these babies are medically unexplained Never mind the coincidence of LL being there every time, and all her bizarre behaviour and note etc on top of it all too. Just too much for me personally.

***Edited to add
Also when Looking for the time she started, I read about the sympathy card on her phone, that I’d forgotten about, and her smiling at the mum after the baby had died(not sure which one this was) and telling her about how she’d bathed the baby. Like what is that behaviour all about, it’s like she is so obsessed with being a part of the parents’ grief, that can’t be normal surely?

 

[friedeggontoast]

something to lighten the mood

 

[EllsBellsWells]

‘He says Dr Evans had not provided this 'splintering of the diaphragm' conclusion in his eight previous reports.’

That’s quite damning really. I’ll be honest I’m trusting this ‘expert witness’ less and less now.

 

[Rippedjeanmaybe]

I do think it was out of spite and jealousy. Only my opinion obviously.

I know a lot of people have disregarded the note as ramblings, but the whole “I killed them because I’m not good enough”. Seems to me like she was jealous and bitter that other nurses were seemingly doing better and getting more praise than her? Maybe she killed babies in other nurse’s care out of jealousy and spite and to try and sabotage them, to make herself seem a hero and a good nurse…

I’d be really interested to know what her childhood was like. Was she pandered and spoilt and always made to feel superior? Or were there deeper issues there?

I just think so far she’s come across as “me me me”.

 

[candyland_]

It’s the same old argument from the defence.. Trying to blame the staffing levels. None of it explains sudden collapses.

 

[IGiveUp22]

“Tiny but chubby” this got me