Wackie Jeaver
VIP Member
Did we ever establish why the Dr yesterday wasn't "a nice fella"?
- Notice
Stiltoncheese
Chatty Member
That extra context you have shared from the podcast @candyland_ is a bit disconcerting. It's like she feels she has the right above all other's needs to be in that room, like her needs/feelings trump everyone else's. It's arrogant and self centred if nothing else.
That poor family. If she was as brash as they say, rushing them when baby c hadn't even died at that point, it's just awful. Like she has no insight or empathy with others which is such an unusual trait for someone in nursing.
That poor family. If she was as brash as they say, rushing them when baby c hadn't even died at that point, it's just awful. Like she has no insight or empathy with others which is such an unusual trait for someone in nursing.
This is the most persuasive thing I've seen yet tbh... And you know I've got arse splinters from fence sitting.. Or should that be hovering.. Which I have special talent for.
Windowtothewall
Chatty Member
From the Twitter updates - looks like the judge is cutting through Myer's wordplay and getting to the facts of WHY Bohin doesn't believe it could be an infection/pneumonia. Making her point clear to the jury.
The reason the death couldn't be infection/pneumonia is because that would involve a "slow and continuous decline" rather than sudden and unexpected collapse.
It occurs to me now, why people don't like defence lawyers generally (unless you're on trial of course), because so much of what they do is wordplay and deflection, to just confuse the jury. Which of course is the only thing they can do to cast doubt in cases like this because he doesn't have anything more conclusive of innocence either. But it's like watching one of those shady men who always manipulates and confuses his partner into not knowing which way is up. I know he's doing his job and it can't be easy but ugh it's terrible to witness.
The reason the death couldn't be infection/pneumonia is because that would involve a "slow and continuous decline" rather than sudden and unexpected collapse.
It occurs to me now, why people don't like defence lawyers generally (unless you're on trial of course), because so much of what they do is wordplay and deflection, to just confuse the jury. Which of course is the only thing they can do to cast doubt in cases like this because he doesn't have anything more conclusive of innocence either. But it's like watching one of those shady men who always manipulates and confuses his partner into not knowing which way is up. I know he's doing his job and it can't be easy but ugh it's terrible to witness.
One thing I keep thinking about is, unless I'm massively mistaken, a lot of this fluff evidence (social media, texts, papers at her house) wouldn't even be known until she was declared a suspect.
As in: an investigation has taken place and Lucy has been identified as a suspect. When they investigate Lucy further they find out, coincidentally, that Lucy also happens to stalk the families on facebook, take home paperwork and keep it and lie about odd little details to her co-workers.
None of which makes her a murderer, but if she IS innocent....god she's unlucky that she made herself so accidentally suspicious.
As in: an investigation has taken place and Lucy has been identified as a suspect. When they investigate Lucy further they find out, coincidentally, that Lucy also happens to stalk the families on facebook, take home paperwork and keep it and lie about odd little details to her co-workers.
None of which makes her a murderer, but if she IS innocent....god she's unlucky that she made herself so accidentally suspicious.
IdeletedbutI'mbackagain
VIP Member
It's sad but unless the defence have something amazing I think the very very very sad reality is is that she did this.
Faith61
VIP Member
Part of me wants to bow out of following this case so closely, but as a nurse, a mum and now a grandma of a beautiful boy I just can't...I want to believe that another "Beverly Allit" doesn't exist, that a person, part of my profession, who is entrusted with the lives of these tiny babies would not have it in them to do this 
As a parent and grandma I can't imagine the pain the families continue to go through
I am just compelled to stay for the long haul and see it through to the end
I'm sure many of us feel this way? Unlike certain FB groups we can all contribute our thoughts and opinions and be respectful of each other!
Not sure what my point is really...other than it's going to get more distressing as the trial moves on and I was thinking, as I say, of bowing out, but I just can't.
As a parent and grandma I can't imagine the pain the families continue to go through
I am just compelled to stay for the long haul and see it through to the end
I'm sure many of us feel this way? Unlike certain FB groups we can all contribute our thoughts and opinions and be respectful of each other!
Not sure what my point is really...other than it's going to get more distressing as the trial moves on and I was thinking, as I say, of bowing out, but I just can't.
No not at all. She was severely disabled, couldn't walk, talk etc, ended up with a tracheostomy, air Flo, oxygen and passed away the day after she turned 9. She went through A LOT, but was always happy and smiley xxxx
abelleza
VIP Member
Why do you keep saying he’s not a nice fella? You don’t know anything about him other than he’s a court witness with medical background?
Haveyouanywool
VIP Member
To be fair, when I had my second child I’d waited a bit too long before responding to the contractions, as my first labour had been long.
By the time my husband came home from work and I’d waddled round to my neighbours (we didn’t have a car so he very kindly gave us a lift), I thought Oops, I even said ‘think I’ve left it a bit late’.
Needless to say, my son was born as my neighbour was hurtling alone the bypass at 70mph, horn blaring.
I thought, no offence but my husband doesn’t know anything and my neighbour
It was scary. I didn’t want to have the responsibility if things went wrong. Thankfully all was fine.
I made sure I got into the hospital quickly with my 3rd.
I gave my neighbour a bottle of vodka and my son’s middle name is his first name. Luckily the car had vinyl seats
By the time my husband came home from work and I’d waddled round to my neighbours (we didn’t have a car so he very kindly gave us a lift), I thought Oops, I even said ‘think I’ve left it a bit late’.
Needless to say, my son was born as my neighbour was hurtling alone the bypass at 70mph, horn blaring.
I thought, no offence but my husband doesn’t know anything and my neighbour
It was scary. I didn’t want to have the responsibility if things went wrong. Thankfully all was fine.I made sure I got into the hospital quickly with my 3rd.
I gave my neighbour a bottle of vodka and my son’s middle name is his first name. Luckily the car had vinyl seats
Last edited:
avabella
VIP Member
Honestly starting to wonder if I'm a bit of a weird one too 
I've read so many comments about how LL 'comes across' based on a few texts and some shift pattern data. I literally have no idea how some of the reaches get to that point. So she arrived early for some shifts? And what? Maybe as others said, sleeping during the day is not easy and so you pop off to work a bit earlier rather than sit and watch telly and potentially get tired again.
She was 'hanging around' parents. Ok, but what if she just f' offed and didn't interact with parents at all? Then there would be claims that she was cold hearted and didn't have people skills.
I couldn't honestly say that anything we've heard strikes me as being particularly weird, obsessive, 'out there' or rude really.
Maybe it's me?
I've read so many comments about how LL 'comes across' based on a few texts and some shift pattern data. I literally have no idea how some of the reaches get to that point. So she arrived early for some shifts? And what? Maybe as others said, sleeping during the day is not easy and so you pop off to work a bit earlier rather than sit and watch telly and potentially get tired again.
She was 'hanging around' parents. Ok, but what if she just f' offed and didn't interact with parents at all? Then there would be claims that she was cold hearted and didn't have people skills.
I couldn't honestly say that anything we've heard strikes me as being particularly weird, obsessive, 'out there' or rude really.
Maybe it's me?
OldBlondie
VIP Member
Think we can all agree, LL is so unprofessional and not giving any families the space they need, she seems so obsessed
this is really awful that poor mum there is such a pattern already of her hanging around so much
this is really awful that poor mum there is such a pattern already of her hanging around so muchAttachments
candyland_
VIP Member
There’s no doubt in my mind that she is guilty. Yes the babies were premature or unwell at times but their collapses were all sudden and unexpected. Each person who cared for them said they were doing well and they all collapsed moments after LL involved herself in their care.
Add in her inappropriate behaviour and comments to parents, her obsession with them, being caught with a collapsing baby and the machines being turned off..
Add in her inappropriate behaviour and comments to parents, her obsession with them, being caught with a collapsing baby and the machines being turned off..
PatienceImpatient
Active member
I actually think Ben Myers looked desperate today and tried to discredit Dr Evans because the defence is unable to come up with a plausible explanation for Baby C’s collapse ( controlled infection is not a plausible explanation for sudden respiratory arrest).
I think it’s important to note that this case is ever moving and ever changing. For example, and this is hypothetical, they may allege that Baby S died of insulin poisoning but not have a cause of death for Baby X. Baby X’s parents may have declined a postmortem, Baby S’s may have agreed to one. Upon investigation of Baby S, similarities are found to Baby X and thus a cause of death is born, I hope this makes sense.
Ultimately, Dr Evans is not changing his assessment of the cause of death, he still believes it to be an injection of air, but is now saying he believes that splintered the diaphragm. There’s another baby in this trial whose diaphragm was splintered, perhaps he found similarities?
I don’t know. For me it doesn’t discredit him. More information comes to light, diagnoses are fluid and can change.
IMO the prosecution are walking this so far and the defence has been shabby. I think the further we get in to this, the more evidence that will stack up.
I think it’s important to note that this case is ever moving and ever changing. For example, and this is hypothetical, they may allege that Baby S died of insulin poisoning but not have a cause of death for Baby X. Baby X’s parents may have declined a postmortem, Baby S’s may have agreed to one. Upon investigation of Baby S, similarities are found to Baby X and thus a cause of death is born, I hope this makes sense.
Ultimately, Dr Evans is not changing his assessment of the cause of death, he still believes it to be an injection of air, but is now saying he believes that splintered the diaphragm. There’s another baby in this trial whose diaphragm was splintered, perhaps he found similarities?
I don’t know. For me it doesn’t discredit him. More information comes to light, diagnoses are fluid and can change.
IMO the prosecution are walking this so far and the defence has been shabby. I think the further we get in to this, the more evidence that will stack up.
PatienceImpatient
Active member
Sorry, I call BS on this. If it’s such an awful place to work, why do so many of the staff still work there who worked with LL? If she’s a scapegoat and they know it, why are they giving evidence AGAINST her? Are they all in cahoots? I seriously doubt it. Sounds like you’re trying to push the innocent agenda by claiming you know someone who knows her. In fact, evidence in most cases is circumstantial. Is a handwritten confession note circumstantial? The woman is a baby killer.
Also how much from 7 years ago do any of us remember? How many days at work, conversations had, do any of us remember?!
Windowtothewall
Chatty Member
I do find that people use the word 'dedicated to a job' to be a positive thing. But actually for a lot of people who are 'dedicated', they use work as a filler for for an emptiness/gap in their lives, dedicated to never being alone/bored etc rather than dedicated to the outcomes and their patients/clients.
I am always wary of working with people who get so invested in their jobs at the expense of any other personal development, because eventually it causes them to lose perspective. And as a manager I actively discourage people always working overtime or taking on the hard cases because they are too invested and wrapped up in it to do it justice. For my husband in the police, they will pull people up when they find they're getting obsessed with cases and not maintaining distance - because it's not healthy for the victims and the officers.They can even be strongly encouraged to take leave. It seems like the supervisor were trying to do the same with LL according to the messages shared - you need a break from ITU, to get away, shut off etc. So it was only a matter of time before she started failing at the job, irrespective of whether she is guilty of murder or not.
I am always wary of working with people who get so invested in their jobs at the expense of any other personal development, because eventually it causes them to lose perspective. And as a manager I actively discourage people always working overtime or taking on the hard cases because they are too invested and wrapped up in it to do it justice. For my husband in the police, they will pull people up when they find they're getting obsessed with cases and not maintaining distance - because it's not healthy for the victims and the officers.They can even be strongly encouraged to take leave. It seems like the supervisor were trying to do the same with LL according to the messages shared - you need a break from ITU, to get away, shut off etc. So it was only a matter of time before she started failing at the job, irrespective of whether she is guilty of murder or not.
candyland_
VIP Member
I think she was upset that they weren’t fawning all over her upon her return to work after Baby A and B. It would fit there not being ‘any team spirit’ so she tried to stir up some or even revenge.
I think she was jealous that nurse Ellis was in the room she wanted to be in caring for higher needs babies and upset that she wasn’t seen as the star nurse to take on that role. Again, it would fit her ‘not being good enough to care for them’.
It was disrespectful to refer to the other nurse as the new girl.. She was qualified and had worked there for six months.
I think she was jealous that nurse Ellis was in the room she wanted to be in caring for higher needs babies and upset that she wasn’t seen as the star nurse to take on that role. Again, it would fit her ‘not being good enough to care for them’.
It was disrespectful to refer to the other nurse as the new girl.. She was qualified and had worked there for six months.
Faith61
VIP Member
Oh my days thankyouI’ve read all of your posts across these threads and I just wanted to say even through this forum I can tell you must of been the most kind and compassionate professional nurse. You can honestly feel how kind and caring you are through my phone! Your children and grandchildren are very lucky
nursing wise I'm quite old school ( not ancient
)As I said earlier, some things can't be taught and this one/LL,whether guilty or not is severely lacking in many ways!!
I now work in hospice care and have worked all over, seeing many changes, most not for the better
but we work with what we have!I've always said I couldn't work with babies/children and it's sad that despite the apparent problems within that trust at the time, those nurses we've heard from were working their backsides off caring for and trying to save those poor babies....I literally couldn't do it! It's even more sad and unthinkable they were potentially fighting a losing battle cos they may have been working with "someone" doing the unthinkable
There's no excuse, rhyme or reason for some of her bizarre, unprofessional,arrogant behaviour, whether guilty or not and I feel for her colleagues who I guess will have had no option but to testify for the prosecution.
I know I ramble on...and sometimes may say too much and make no sense at times
i just can't keep my mouth it's affecting each of us here in different ways and I really respect everyone's opinions.Thankyou so so much for your kind words...it means a lot