Llewelyn Davies & Rhys Davies / Champions of Mind / TTTOfficial #5

[casual observer 101]

Hi Matt,

I don't think I mentioned my area of expertise, Im a surgeon. I admit, there are better surgeons out there than me, like ones that have trained for years, earned qualifications and actually saved peoples lives… however im cheaper. I feel watching causality and being a member of St Johns Ambulance as a child qualifies me to operate. Also I have put plasters on my son (and others) more than once. Most of my clients are poor, I tell them I don't have the same qualifications or experience as some of my colleagues, but they choose to pay me anyway in case I can help them. Surgery isn’t just about saving peoples lives/helping people, its about other stuff too. Ive been quoted 100,000 for heart bypass surgery by really good surgeons, however I only charge £7,200 and I always offer clients a free consultation call with zero pressure.

In all seriousness Matt, you have balls, as you are on here as you and I am hiding behind an avatar mainly because the twins scare the hell out of me. I believe you believe you are helping people, but a lot of the people we have heard from on this platform don't have £600 to spare, they are desperate and struggling to make ends meet.

Do you not think you could give people the wrong advice from time to time, even if your intentions are good and you are trying your best? Thats why teachers train for years, they don't just learn tonnes of material, but also the process of how to teach and what is and is not appropriate. They also learn about understanding the limits of the individual and how to deal with people with disabilities and people who have depression.

There have been people on this forum who have suffered real financial and metal damage owing to this ungoverned industry. There are people that coaches should have referred to a doctor for help, but instead they took their money. I’m not saying you’ve done that obviously.

Im sure you’ve done great at your core business and to start it up age 19 shows you’ve got drive, you’ve achieved more than most, good for you, and you seem like a nice guy, but I feel you have no business charging people for your business expertise, sometimes a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

 

[rhysspieces]

Filming for a Hollywood blockbuster…?

 

[MattHall]

Hi Matt,

I don't think I mentioned my area of expertise, Im a surgeon. I admit, there are better surgeons out there than me, like ones that have trained for years, earned qualifications and actually saved peoples lives… however im cheaper. I feel watching causality and being a member of St Johns Ambulance as a child qualifies me to operate. Also I have put plasters on my son (and others) more than once. Most of my clients are poor, I tell them I don't have the same qualifications or experience as some of my colleagues, but they choose to pay me anyway in case I can help them. Surgery isn’t just about saving peoples lives/helping people, its about other stuff too. Ive been quoted 100,000 for heart bypass surgery by really good surgeons, however I only charge £7,200 and I always offer clients a free consultation call with zero pressure.

In all seriousness Matt, you have balls, as you are on here as you and I am hiding behind an avatar mainly because the twins scare the hell out of me. I believe you believe you are helping people, but a lot of the people we have heard from on this platform don't have £600 to spare, they are desperate and struggling to make ends meet.

Do you not think you could give people the wrong advice from time to time, even if your intentions are good and you are trying your best? Thats why teachers train for years, they don't just learn tonnes of material, but also the process of how to teach and what is and is not appropriate. They also learn about understanding the limits of the individual and how to deal with people with disabilities and people who have depression.

There have been people on this forum who have suffered real financial and metal damage owing to this ungoverned industry. There are people that coaches should have referred to a doctor for help, but instead they took their money. I’m not saying you’ve done that obviously.

Im sure you’ve done great at your core business and to start it up age 19 shows you’ve got drive, you’ve achieved more than most, good for you, and you seem like a nice guy, but I feel you have no business charging people for your business expertise, sometimes a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

All understood.

Your hypothetical example quite clearly outlines how what I’ve said could appear ridiculous in a totally different scenario.

However, at the heart of it (pun intended) hopefully we can appreciate that building a business is largely about having or developing the ability to communicate with people effectively and fairly, building strong lasting relationships with people and being able to have the confidence, self belief and courage to often deal with pressure and other peoples emotions. It doe not require the skills/ talent to be able to plaster a wall or perform life saving heart surgery. Or anything like that. For that reason, I would suggest it’s very different.

However I do take on board the sentiment of the point made and to some degree do agree. But again that brings me back to the point..nobody is being forced to work with me.

I also appreciate not everyone can afford £600.
But some people can and believe it’s a worthwhile investment.

So I think it’s important we are fair with this conversation and take into account that “value” and “affordability” is all subjective and based on an individuals current circumstances, beliefs and opinions.

Also to be clear, when I’m working with a client I only ever share my opinions, examples and experiences. I also ask a lot of key questions to the client to help guide them to think things through clearly and reach their own conclusions.

I never tell my client what to do.

I only ever share things and I ask questions. I also help them weigh up their options and create a logical risk assessment of all those options before they make a decision.

So in theory, it’s very tough to give the wrong advice as predominately my clients are making their own decisions simply with greater self awareness and assethanks to the guidance I give.

And again nobody is forced to pay me!! If they can’t afford it - they don’t pay.

On that point - there is also SOOOO much great FREE advice across multiple platforms on the internet today that can seriously help people!

I myself try and give a lot for free through things like my podcast, social media pages, live videos etc.

I also offer a 14 day free trial into my membership and offer cheaper options to work with me in group capacity’s (my membership is £29 per month and can be cancelled at any time).

In addition to that, although I don’t often publicise it, behind closed doors I’ve helped numerous people for free that needed support and didn’t have the money available

Another perspective to consider that I think is relative to the points you’ve raised - there are many teachers, doctors, surgeons out there who have all the qualifications under the sun and yet some of them still make mistakes, give the wrong advice and some of them still have bad intentions and let people down.

So even in regulated industries good people make mistakes and bad people are able to get away with doing bad things.

For me, everything should be considered with full context and on a case-by-case basis as that’s where I think a fair assessment can be made. e.g not just implying that everybody with qualifications is good and everybody operating in an unregulated industry is delivering bad/overcharging.

Needless to say I want to make it clear that I am completely agreeing with you on two very important points here:

1. Yes I do think there should be more safeguarding and regulations put in place within the coaching / mentoring space to protect people. I welcome the day that happens

2. I definitely encourage people to do more due diligence, research and speak to the person they are considering working with before any money is handed over.

 

[yabby212]

The Tinpot Twins have rolled back the years and dipped their toes back into their “acting” days.

From conquering such heights such as being extras in 118 118 adverts in 2013, the big bullshitting buffoon Rhys Davies and the lemon Llewellyn Davies were chauffeured in a Mercedes C class to London to start their Amazon documentary which will be about how they defeated the haters by blocking and deleting them on their way to becoming genuine 7 figure earning and successful millionaires.

 

[casual observer 101]

Hi Matt,

I imagine your client's businesses/careers are the financial lifelines of their families. I am concerned that you possibly are not taking that as seriously as you should by suggesting it takes skill and talent to plaster a wall, but none to be a coach (beyond being a good communicator!?). That's not meant to be a loaded statement, by the way, it is how I read your explanation. In my opinion, the terrible twins are good communicators at face value, but they are awful business people and offer poor advice. Their success shows the industry is an open door for con artists.

I can't plaster a wall, I've tried, and it's indeed hard. However, I do happen to know many business people, and the successful ones are incredibly talented. My big business takeaway is if I want to understand something, I will find an expert in that thing, someone who is very successful at it and has made real money at it, and I will pay them for advice. If you were coaching businesses working exclusively in the entertainment industry, that would make sense as you have a proven model.

You describe your job almost like that of a therapist, listening to clients' ideas and repeating things back, encouraging them to make their own decisions and be confident. However, I'm guessing you are not a trained therapist? If an untrained therapist set up shop advising people on aspects of their personal lives, there would be an outcry; how is advising people about their business any less damaging? Also, what if your client's business ideas are terrible and you accidentally encourage them to make a bad choice?

This takes me back to my original concern, how can a “coach” help guide someone that works in a business they might not fully understand?

 

[MattHall]

Hi Matt,

I imagine your client's businesses/careers are the financial lifelines of their families. I am concerned that you possibly are not taking that as seriously as you should by suggesting it takes skill and talent to plaster a wall, but none to be a coach (beyond being a good communicator!?). That's not meant to be a loaded statement, by the way, it is how I read your explanation. In my opinion, the terrible twins are good communicators at face value, but they are awful business people and offer poor advice. Their success shows the industry is an open door for con artists.

I can't plaster a wall, I've tried, and it's indeed hard. However, I do happen to know many business people, and the successful ones are incredibly talented. My big business takeaway is if I want to understand something, I will find an expert in that thing, someone who is very successful at it and has made real money at it, and I will pay them for advice. If you were coaching businesses working exclusively in the entertainment industry, that would make sense as you have a proven model.

You describe your job almost like that of a therapist, listening to clients' ideas and repeating things back, encouraging them to make their own decisions and be confident. However, I'm guessing you are not a trained therapist? If an untrained therapist set up shop advising people on aspects of their personal lives, there would be an outcry; how is advising people about their business any less damaging? Also, what if your client's business ideas are terrible and you accidentally encourage them to make a bad choice?

This takes me back to my original concern, how can a “coach” help guide someone that works in a business they might not fully understand?

Again some fair points are raised in your post. And I feel this is a healthy debate we’ve both taken part in on here. So thank you for that and thank you for not making it argumentative or too patronising etc.

It does seem to me (I could be wrong though!) that potentially you have a problem with the wider idea of life/ business coaching as a whole.

Which is a fair opinion to have and I personally don’t have any issues with that either. There’s lots of other people that don’t agree that coaching is useful or a “proper” job too. And there’s a lot of people who’s think it’s just a money making scam as a whole industry. Theres even some that just don’t agree with the “big dogs” like Tony Robbins, Brendon Burchard, Grant Cardone etc etc.

And that’s all cool and they’re free to think that!

That said, I think it’s important to appreciate we can agree to disagree on some things. And also it’s fair to say the other side to that story is there are also a lot of people out there who have worked with coaches and had amazing benefits from their experience and speak highly of it - from experience. And not all the coaches were millionaires etc.

As we know, there is good and bad in everything. nothing is perfect and which ever way you sway in your viewpoints will be heavily based on your own personal experiences and beliefs etc.

I do feel at this stage I don’t think I have anything more to really add to those points above.

Any points I would make all come back to the same numerous points I’ve previously mentioned in detail.

Things such as “value” being subjective, judging each individual on their real clients feedback and the fact that an industry being regulated does not guarantee you’ll get good advice/ service from someone. And yes I do think more safeguarding and regulation would help improve things all round for everybody involved (who is genuine).

With regards to your concerns about me not taking it seriously… I so of course want to confirm I absolutely do take what I do very seriously and put a great deal of thought and care into it.

My point was just that a mistake made in a small business is never going to be as detrimental as a mistake in heart surgery.

It can almost always be corrected so long as it’s not been made after a string of bad decisions or the person is just unethical or has bad intentions etc.

Generally, there’s always a solution, an opportunity or a lesson to learn no matter what happens. But only if you can see it that way.

Often the fear of getting everything “right” or being perfect is the exact thing that stops people achieving anything. People can be plagued by fear of needing to get everything right or gain approval. My support often helps people take action they otherwise wouldn’t have dared to do on their own. And that in itself helps them learn.

And I also believe that making mistakes in business is actually one of the quickest ways to learn in business too. Often I think you will learn far more valuable lessons from the mistakes you have make than you do from the “wins”.

Again, I believe it’s not necessarily the same that can be said for a patient on the operating table who's surgeon makes an error.

So I do believe it’s somewhat different.

Obviously as with everything we’ve mentioned there’s always exceptions to the rule and nuances to my statements/ opinions.

But I believe I’m self-aware enough and wise enough not to advise somebody who for example, is in business with tremendous debt and about to make some terrible decisions. I would suggest that I’m not the best person to help them as I’ve not been in that extreme position and wouldn’t be comfortable taking them on as a client.

But again, I really do take on board and agree with your bigger point here that other coaches might not take my approach of giving much thought and care and they could just take the money regardless of whether they can actually help or not.

And yes a lot of coaches out there simply can’t help somebody through a business that they don’t fully understand or have experience in. And that includes me for many businesses too. And it’s important that we don’t pretend we can help when we know we can’t.

So I agree with you!

But I have never done that. And that’s the important point I really want to make clear here.

Obviously I’ve now invested a lot of hours into explaining myself and my position and hopefully giving some important insights and perspectives on this thread.

I feel anything that needs to be said in response to your last message has already been said either in this message or in previous messages so if it’s ok with you I’m going to leave it there for now (as I genuinely am busy running a business believe it or not! Lol).

Thank you for raising some important points, giving me the opportunity to share my side of what I do and for being fair in your side of the debate!

Again, a point I make is I know that Coaching isn’t right for everybody. And for those who do want to hire a coach, I’m not saying I’m the right one for all of them either.

But I do know I’ve been told on multiple occasions by people who have paid to work with me that they are incredibly grateful for the work I’ve done with them as their coach.

I also agree I have so much more to learn too and I do want to continue to improve in everything I do including building my own businesses further now.

Which is one of the reasons why for the time being I personally am not coaching anybody anymore on a 121 basis.

 

[biglad010]

Course they did you fuckin idiot LOL, What a sausage you are, you honestly believe the absolute tit that comes out your mouth, Oh look, Mummy and aunty liked the photo as per usual, I know you're reading this, just go back to what you're good at.......... Sucking dick round the back of Heron foods ya head

Course they did you fuckin idiot LOL, What a sausage you are, you honestly believe the absolute tit that comes out your mouth, Oh look, Mummy and aunty liked the photo as per usual, I know you're reading this, just go back to what you're good at.......... Sucking dick round the back of Heron foods ya head

Also, What kind of a fuckin Narcissist likes his own photos?? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL you really are a bleep aint ya

 

[Choccydemigod]

View attachment 1344325
Course they did you fuckin idiot LOL, What a sausage you are, you honestly believe the absolute tit that comes out your mouth, Oh look, Mummy and aunty liked the photo as per usual, I know you're reading this, just go back to what you're good at.......... Sucking dick round the back of Heron foods ya head


Also, What kind of a fuckin Narcissist likes his own photos?? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL you really are a bleep aint ya

Dying

 

[casual observer 101]

I have paid for mentors and coaches throughout my career and found some to be hugely valuable (I’m old so I’ve had a few). However, I have always sought out experts with a proven track record that have made real money and are way more successful than me. None of these coaches have tried to get me to work with them “long term” or on a discounted package. I like to think that’s because they are in demand and enjoy problem solving, not because they all think I’m an asshole and want me to move on quickly lol.

I think Tony Robbins is the boss, he is a self made man who has had great success in multiple fields.

I have nothing against coaches, only those who can’t offer value for money. Sadly those coaches more than often attract desperate or inexperienced people with limited funds. They typically use crass marketing tactics like posting pictures of expensive watches, cars, holidays, houses and their posts imply “you can have this too, pay me and I’ll show you how”. I had nothing, but now I’m rich” The reality is not only are a lot of these photos faked (rented manor houses, rented cars, fake rolex’s) but many of these “coach’s” only actual business experience is running their own coaching business/derivatives of.

Successful business people tend to have a history of case studies and associated businesses/sometimes their own business portfolio that they have grown over time, or years of experience working at established firms where they have earned high positions. Of course there are exceptions, some people achieve success very quickly, but again this can typically be easily demonstrated in their specific field.

Company accounts can be a bit deceiving of course, as they only show what’s left on the pot at the end of a companies financial year. However as personal tax obligations become pretty extreme over a certain level, in my experience, most business people dont pull out all the profits and they invest in assets - these assets are indicated in the company accounts. Plus any successful long-term running business needs cash flow.

If someone was “sleeping on a mattress opposite a crack den” a few short years ago, has had no background or major education in business and is now claiming to be a millionaire, and their ONLY business is “coaching” - then I imagine there is a fair chance they are either faking their lifestyle, or conning people.

I believe the twins did make real money for a while by developing some kind of pyramid coaching scheme. The other “coaches” that paid them for long periods inadvertently become part of it. They are likely all victims; and unable to differentiate between blaggers and actual business talent. Bottom line, I feel someone that fell for the twins scam for a long period should not be coaching people in business (at least in the short term) as they were either too inexperienced/naive to see the scam or lack good moral judgment. Thats of course not to say this will always be the case. People learn from their mistakes and people change and grow.

I’m going to leave Matt out of this as he is a nice bloke and he has balls to come on this thread (none of this is aimed at you Matt, any similarities are coincidental). I’m going to use another very nice bloke as an example - Steve Burgess.

Steves only experience at running a business is his coaching business. A few years ago he was working in Tesco’s in his own words “stacking shelves”. A fact he strangely continuously uses as a selling point alongside boasting about his assets. Where is the evidence of Steves business experience/success,? look closely and you will see his poor marketing shows a lack of understanding of how the real business world works. I believe he doesn’t understand how his “fake it to make it” approach of buying social likes and flaunting “wealth” is more like the behavior of a teenage influencer than a businessman. Obviously he is making money, it seems all the coaches have, so some people are still buying into this.

If you are considering hiring one of these guys, ask yourself Is it possible for someone to teach someone else something they haven’t/can’t achieve themselves?

Businesses vary a lot, there is no cookie cutter strategy that makes all businesses work - is someone that hasn’t been successful in your industry worth paying huge amounts of your hard earned cash to for advice? Check out the free online resources and groups on social platforms before parting with your hard earned cash.

 

[yabby212]

When you read Harrison Cole’s Facebook posts, it’s almost as though the lemon Llewellyn Davies has typed them himself. This was also the case with Pretesh Parmar, Alec Witts and Matt Hall last year as well as have him doing those pathetic Facebook live videos pointlessly ranting with that needless aggressive tone they both love to project themselves with sounding just like them. Speaking of the lemon Llewellyn Davies, I’ve noticed a lot of the lovebombing recently has been for Dean Blackstock. I’m sure he saves the lovebombing for when it’s close to their pay dates just to sweeten them up a bit. In a few weeks, the lovebombing will go back to Harrison Cole or Liam Glynn. The big bullshitting buffoon, the business and social media pioneer Rhys Davies seems to be PT’ing in the gym. He has no qualifications and is most likely doing so undercutting and evading any rent/business rates.

 

[Spiderplant]

When you read Harrison Cole’s Facebook posts, it’s almost as though the lemon Llewellyn Davies has typed them himself. This was also the case with Pretesh Parmar, Alec Witts and Matt Hall last year as well as have him doing those pathetic Facebook live videos pointlessly ranting with that needless aggressive tone they both love to project themselves with sounding just like them. Speaking of the lemon Llewellyn Davies, I’ve noticed a lot of the lovebombing recently has been for Dean Blackstock. I’m sure he saves the lovebombing for when it’s close to their pay dates just to sweeten them up a bit. In a few weeks, the lovebombing will go back to Harrison Cole or Liam Glynn. The big bullshitting buffoon, the business and social media pioneer Rhys Davies seems to be PT’ing in the gym. He has no qualifications and is most likely doing so undercutting and evading any rent/business rates.

Llewy is also writing Carly’s posts iMO as they a coming across as cryptic bullshit…if she’s such a boss why does she let him do this! She needs it to give her head a wobble!

 

[Mikeroden]

I got to say fair play to Matt Hall for finally coming on here and sharing his side of the story and exposing the twin's (took you long enough though pal) but you finally done it you spoke up. Maybe now the other's might come on here, yes I'm talking to you Alec Witts and Pretesh Pramar! I get you guy's are probably scared of the twins etc but Matt has got the ball rolling now surely if everyone of you speaks out then there is less chance of repercussions as let's face it the twins aren't going to go after everyone. Alec and Pretesh you are both coward's as far as I'm concerned as you both know Matt has took a risk talking about the twins on here yet you continue to let him do so with no back up. Surely you guy's were close once if not anymore? I also know you guy's read this thread so there is no excuses. This thread also needs more true stories and accounts from victims who have been conned from the terrible twins Rhys and Llewellyn Davies. Alec and Pretesh I'm sure you would have a lot to bring to the table but yet you are both happy to let other people be open and liable to be scammed by these pair of shysters as you are both too pussy to speak up.

 

[ChocolateDummyGod]

Well it's sure got spicy round here recently!

Fair play Matt Hall for coming on here to defend yourself and back up what is being said about the Twins.

As much as I do think Matt and the other TTT Alumni really lack the experience I would consider necessary to give quality business advice (all of their business accounts are pretty shocking, no question), I can also see how if you are an absolute novice, there could be some merit to helping people.

For me I do think that coaching people with a lower level of skill set as Matt has described, really does walk a fine line between help and poor advice in many cases, and that's not directed specifically at you Matt, but it's just natural that someone with little experience, teaching people with little experience, is a bit of a blind leading the blind scenario. Even the student may not have any comparison to draw against what is or isnt a good experience or decision.

But that said, if people are willing to pay and are happy, they are adults and that is not anyone else's business but their own. But I don't think its a business model of good morals for most people. Hence why the tinpot twins do it!

I think it is wise of you Matt to distance yourself from the coaching game and focus on becoming a better businessman, that shows to me that you do in fact have morals and have probably taken a lot of the points raised here and discussed by yourself, on board.

As much as this site can certainly be toxic and drive a lot of assumptions about everyone associated with the scammers that are the tinpots, if this place did not exist, I can't imagine Matt (and hopefully others one day) would ever for one moment even considered speaking up about these awful people, and that is the important thing to remember.

Thank god for free speech and once again credit to Matt for actually coming on here to get involved in the discussion instead of simply burying his head in the sand like all the other tinpot university students. (not to mention any names, James B, Burgess, Pretesh, Alec and lord knows however many other people who they've trained their scammy systems to over the COM years).

Just one question Matt while you are here, did the Twins train you to charge 6-12 months upfront or did you always take monthly payments as the service was delivered?

 

[bigup12345]

Hi Alec

I have paid for mentors and coaches throughout my career and found some to be hugely valuable (I’m old so I’ve had a few). However, I have always sought out experts with a proven track record that have made real money and are way more successful than me. None of these coaches have tried to get me to work with them “long term” or on a discounted package. I like to think that’s because they are in demand and enjoy problem solving, not because they all think I’m an asshole and want me to move on quickly lol.

I think Tony Robbins is the boss, he is a self made man who has had great success in multiple fields.

I have nothing against coaches, only those who can’t offer value for money. Sadly those coaches more than often attract desperate or inexperienced people with limited funds. They typically use crass marketing tactics like posting pictures of expensive watches, cars, holidays, houses and their posts imply “you can have this too, pay me and I’ll show you how”. I had nothing, but now I’m rich” The reality is not only are a lot of these photos faked (rented manor houses, rented cars, fake rolex’s) but many of these “coach’s” only actual business experience is running their own coaching business/derivatives of.

Successful business people tend to have a history of case studies and associated businesses/sometimes their own business portfolio that they have grown over time, or years of experience working at established firms where they have earned high positions. Of course there are exceptions, some people achieve success very quickly, but again this can typically be easily demonstrated in their specific field.

Company accounts can be a bit deceiving of course, as they only show what’s left on the pot at the end of a companies financial year. However as personal tax obligations become pretty extreme over a certain level, in my experience, most business people dont pull out all the profits and they invest in assets - these assets are indicated in the company accounts. Plus any successful long-term running business needs cash flow.

If someone was “sleeping on a mattress opposite a crack den” a few short years ago, has had no background or major education in business and is now claiming to be a millionaire, and their ONLY business is “coaching” - then I imagine there is a fair chance they are either faking their lifestyle, or conning people.

I believe the twins did make real money for a while by developing some kind of pyramid coaching scheme. The other “coaches” that paid them for long periods inadvertently become part of it. They are likely all victims; and unable to differentiate between blaggers and actual business talent. Bottom line, I feel someone that fell for the twins scam for a long period should not be coaching people in business (at least in the short term) as they were either too inexperienced/naive to see the scam or lack good moral judgment. Thats of course not to say this will always be the case. People learn from their mistakes and people change and grow.

I’m going to leave Matt out of this as he is a nice bloke and he has balls to come on this thread (none of this is aimed at you Matt, any similarities are coincidental). I’m going to use another very nice bloke as an example - Steve Burgess.

Steves only experience at running a business is his coaching business. A few years ago he was working in Tesco’s in his own words “stacking shelves”. A fact he strangely continuously uses as a selling point alongside boasting about his assets. Where is the evidence of Steves business experience/success,? look closely and you will see his poor marketing shows a lack of understanding of how the real business world works. I believe he doesn’t understand how his “fake it to make it” approach of buying social likes and flaunting “wealth” is more like the behavior of a teenage influencer than a businessman. Obviously he is making money, it seems all the coaches have, so some people are still buying into this.

If you are considering hiring one of these guys, ask yourself Is it possible for someone to teach someone else something they haven’t/can’t achieve themselves?

Businesses vary a lot, there is no cookie cutter strategy that makes all businesses work - is someone that hasn’t been successful in your industry worth paying huge amounts of your hard earned cash to for advice? Check out the free online resources and groups on social platforms before parting with your hard earned cash.

What about haitel patel

Well it's sure got spicy round here recently!

Fair play Matt Hall for coming on here to defend yourself and back up what is being said about the Twins.

As much as I do think Matt and the other TTT Alumni really lack the experience I would consider necessary to give quality business advice (all of their business accounts are pretty shocking, no question), I can also see how if you are an absolute novice, there could be some merit to helping people.

For me I do think that coaching people with a lower level of skill set as Matt has described, really does walk a fine line between help and poor advice in many cases, and that's not directed specifically at you Matt, but it's just natural that someone with little experience, teaching people with little experience, is a bit of a blind leading the blind scenario. Even the student may not have any comparison to draw against what is or isnt a good experience or decision.

But that said, if people are willing to pay and are happy, they are adults and that is not anyone else's business but their own. But I don't think its a business model of good morals for most people. Hence why the tinpot twins do it!

I think it is wise of you Matt to distance yourself from the coaching game and focus on becoming a better businessman, that shows to me that you do in fact have morals and have probably taken a lot of the points raised here and discussed by yourself, on board.

As much as this site can certainly be toxic and drive a lot of assumptions about everyone associated with the scammers that are the tinpots, if this place did not exist, I can't imagine Matt (and hopefully others one day) would ever for one moment even considered speaking up about these awful people, and that is the important thing to remember.

Thank god for free speech and once again credit to Matt for actually coming on here to get involved in the discussion instead of simply burying his head in the sand like all the other tinpot university students. (not to mention any names, James B, Burgess, Pretesh, Alec and lord knows however many other people who they've trained their scammy systems to over the COM years).

Just one question Matt while you are here, did the Twins train you to charge 6-12 months upfront or did you always take monthly payments as the service was delivered?

Just threw up

 

[yabby212]

Here’s the daily dose of stupidity by the lemon Llewellyn Davies. With this roll of honour you’d think even one of them could be evidenced.

His real list of achievements is the number of women he’s battered and the number of old men and transexuals he’s had BDSM with.

They also refer to themselves as “professional boxers”, how can that be when the lemon Llewellyn Davies went on prizefighter in January of 2011 - the year he packed in boxing and that show’s rules are the boxers compete at amateur level.

 

[yabby212]

Footballers - schoolboys, had a trial with Preston North End for a month and didn’t get offered a contract. Quit football.

Boxers - amateurs, not professional. Most of the tinpot twins’ fights were at the Bedworth civic hall.

Bodybuilders - done about 5 shows between them. They’ve been on steroids for about 10 years now. The lemon Llewellyn Davies competed in future physiques show in coventry and kicked off with the judges because he didn’t hetabout 12 years ago and the big bullshitting buffoon Rhys Davies got told to do one at the door in Derby for a UKBFF qualifier around 7 years ago. Neither have achieved any form of significant win in bodybuilding hence why there is absolutely nothing on the web that can be searched.

Actors - extras in a couple of bang average TV commercials hardly classes you to be labelled actors you pair of dimwits.

WWE tryout finalists - This was a time when WWE were quite strong in their pursuit of talent from the UK just before NXT took off and would regularly host open events for talented wrestlers over here to show what skills they have in the ring when they would be touring in the UK. Thes tinpot twins turned up with zero grappling skills between them and got told where they can go.

Self made businessmen - Zero business qualifications between them. Their “success” has been scammed and bullied to.

Top 1% earners - Have a look at companies house and you’ll see just how big earners these two are.

Success does leave clues and it also leaves evidence and the only evidence is that you two are nothing short of a pair of lying, cheating and stealing scumbags. That is your concept.

The Tinpot Twins.

 

[casual observer 101]

I’m looking forward to finding out what their lastest “TV project” is! I will be getting in touch with the related brand or TV production company and sending them links to these threads to let them know they are using two assholes that are extorting people.

Footballers - schoolboys, had a trial with Preston North End for a month and didn’t get offered a contract. Quit football.

Boxers - amateurs, not professional. Most of the tinpot twins’ fights were at the Bedworth civic hall.

Bodybuilders - done about 5 shows between them. They’ve been on steroids for about 10 years now. The lemon Llewellyn Davies competed in future physiques show in coventry and kicked off with the judges because he didn’t hetabout 12 years ago and the big bullshitting buffoon Rhys Davies got told to do one at the door in Derby for a UKBFF qualifier around 7 years ago. Neither have achieved any form of significant win in bodybuilding hence why there is absolutely nothing on the web that can be searched.

Actors - extras in a couple of bang average TV commercials hardly classes you to be labelled actors you pair of dimwits.

WWE tryout finalists - This was a time when WWE were quite strong in their pursuit of talent from the UK just before NXT took off and would regularly host open events for talented wrestlers over here to show what skills they have in the ring when they would be touring in the UK. Thes tinpot twins turned up with zero grappling skills between them and got told where they can go.

Self made businessmen - Zero business qualifications between them. Their “success” has been scammed and bullied to.

Top 1% earners - Have a look at companies house and you’ll see just how big earners these two are.

Success does leave clues and it also leaves evidence and the only evidence is that you two are nothing short of a pair of lying, cheating and stealing scumbags. That is your concept.

The Tinpot Twins.

 

[Jakey56]

I’m looking forward to finding out what their lastest “TV project” is! I will be getting in touch with the related brand or TV production company and sending them links to these threads to let them know they are using two assholes that are extorting people.

You'd think they would be good at acting, seeing as their entire life is one big act!

 

[Qmhc2010]

Footballers - schoolboys, had a trial with Preston North End for a month and didn’t get offered a contract. Quit football.

Boxers - amateurs, not professional. Most of the tinpot twins’ fights were at the Bedworth civic hall.

Bodybuilders - done about 5 shows between them. They’ve been on steroids for about 10 years now. The lemon Llewellyn Davies competed in future physiques show in coventry and kicked off with the judges because he didn’t hetabout 12 years ago and the big bullshitting buffoon Rhys Davies got told to do one at the door in Derby for a UKBFF qualifier around 7 years ago. Neither have achieved any form of significant win in bodybuilding hence why there is absolutely nothing on the web that can be searched.

Actors - extras in a couple of bang average TV commercials hardly classes you to be labelled actors you pair of dimwits.

WWE tryout finalists - This was a time when WWE were quite strong in their pursuit of talent from the UK just before NXT took off and would regularly host open events for talented wrestlers over here to show what skills they have in the ring when they would be touring in the UK. Thes tinpot twins turned up with zero grappling skills between them and got told where they can go.

Self made businessmen - Zero business qualifications between them. Their “success” has been scammed and bullied to.

Top 1% earners - Have a look at companies house and you’ll see just how big earners these two are.

Success does leave clues and it also leaves evidence and the only evidence is that you two are nothing short of a pair of lying, cheating and stealing scumbags. That is your concept.

The Tinpot Twins.

Very one sided view here, think we need to consider the truth...

Boxers- could have turned pro but they wanted to help the world so had to leave it.

Bodybuilders- they bought some IFBB shorts at the giftshop at a show in Spain. Wearing the shorts daily to promote the brand just shows how much of an asset they are on social media- the IFBB just haven't realised it yet.

Actors- They also auditioned for a film that Nicole Kidman was starring in, so they virtually helped her get an Oscar nomination.

WWE- Triple H said they were good, not his fault that the contract obviously got lost in the post.

Self-made businessmen- Organo coffee doesn't sell itself, but they outgrew that market-leading organisation and realised they had more to offer.

Top 1%- Top 1% within the Davies family is still Top 1%. They once turned down a £10m contract (as Champions of Mind), so clearly didn't want to upset the other 1%ers- this just shows how generous they are.

Success leaves clues, but you haven't been listening recently; money in the bank and material assets aren't important. What matters is that you are in 'fantastic health and exceptional spirit' every day (including when you can't sleep because your gear cycle is causing havoc with your body).

P.S Llewy, that fake Tag Heuer is awful- take it back to the market stall and ask for your £20 back.

 

[Mikeroden]

I’m looking forward to finding out what their lastest “TV project” is! I will be getting in touch with the related brand or TV production company and sending them links to these threads to let them know they are using two assholes that are extorting people.

This is who Rhys tagged in his post the other day when they were filming, I think he must be the camera man or something to do with the production https://instagram.com/sam_eking?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=