LGB Discussion

[HockyRorror]

Is this case possibly more about transgender people as in engineered to have female at the front but it’s multi purpose covers all genders person identifies as?

I assume all these cases are (as their backgrounds ultimately reveal to be)
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Not only bizarre, but also pointless, considering no woman (including her) is going to want to share a space populated by nude gay men. The judge should have filed it under 'vexatious' and thrown it out.

Er, no, massively missing the point. There are women that want to share a space populated by nude gay men, including women who think they are themselves, nude gay men when they go topless with their boobs out. Judgement should have been protecting gay spaces before opening it up to identity. Am aware though this is in the USA which is a more highly contested subject than it is here

Judgements should be about the majority it’s protecting, not one persons minority wants, IMO.

 

[Ensay]

I assume all these cases are (as their backgrounds ultimately reveal to be)
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Er, no, massively missing the point. There are women that want to share a space populated by nude gay men, including women who think they are themselves, nude gay men when they go topless with their boobs out. Judgement should have been protecting gay spaces before opening it up to identity. Am aware though this is in the USA which is a more highly contested subject than it is here

Judgements should be about the majority it’s protecting, not one persons minority wants, IMO.

I'm not sure about that, though. Whenever the subject of trans individuals wanting to access single sex spaces comes up, it's almost always trans women wanting access to female toilets, changing rooms, etc.

Are there any documented cases of trans men wanting access to gay male nude spaces?

It's just most GCs say trans men are almost always lesbians who are used to society punching down on women, hence they want to 'opt out' and say they're men. Whereas the image you're portraying is of trans men who want to get into gay male spaces for a sexual thrill - in other words the exact equivalent of trans women. Which doesn't add up.

 

[daydreamer95]

I could more understand this viewpoint if the article had been written about Emmett, but it was written by him

For the record Emmett is writing about himself in a Guardian series where other writers do the same

View attachment 2294250
View attachment 2294252

My mistake apologies to @Ensay I COMPLETELY read / got this wrong hands up
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I assume all these cases are (as their backgrounds ultimately reveal to be)

Amina Chaudhry is part of LGBT community implications for transgender non binary is mentioned by her that makes me feel she is an activist

It’s an event for men that’s why they say male only and what’s wrong with that why can’t gay men have their own things for themselves

To be inclusive does every social event for same sex attracted have to be open to all become mixed of just stop what will make everybody happy?

 

[Metropolis]

I'm not sure about that, though. Whenever the subject of trans individuals wanting to access single sex spaces comes up, it's almost always trans women wanting access to female toilets, changing rooms, etc.

Are there any documented cases of trans men wanting access to gay male nude spaces?

It's just most GCs say trans men are almost always lesbians who are used to society punching down on women, hence they want to 'opt out' and say they're men. Whereas the image you're portraying is of trans men who want to get into gay male spaces for a sexual thrill - in other words the exact equivalent of trans women. Which doesn't add up.

I mentioned this case a few pages back and it’s not the only one. There are heterosexual women who believe they are gay men who want access to gay male nude spaces. Even Davey Wavey interviews a trans identifying female on his YouTube channel who ‘identifies’ as a gay man who wants to make gay porn with biological gay men.

London gay sauna kicks out trans man for not having a penis

The man was asked to leave Sailors Sauna following a complaint from a customer.

www.attitude.co.uk

 

[daydreamer95]

I mentioned this case a few pages back and it’s not the only one.

As long as you have certificate of identified gender you will be granted entry, from Sailors venue website:

We are licensed by Tower Hamlets as a single sex facility. By entering these premises Patrons are demonstrating that they identify as male. Trans men and all other male identified individuals are welcome patrons, irrespective of their hormone or surgical/genital status.

From Attitude article:

The venue added that it had since received clarifcation from Tower Hamlets Council that trans men in posession of a Gender Recognition Certificate are indeed allowed to use the sauna.

Sailors Conditions of Entry and frequently asked questions <br>

Sailors is a men/male only social club, spa, steam and sauna. We welcome guests to join our friendly community of men from all backgrounds and walks of life

sailorssauna.com

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TRAs will be encouraging trans identifying men to go into these spaces that person from article was told it’s ok go by somebody according to article

That statement from Sailors says by entering you demonstrate that you identify as male does that mean they even check certificate Tower Hamlets council mentions they might just accept whatever is said?

 

[OwlAtTheMoon]

It’s not life-affirming to the individual in the article because they already have a life. Hard to articulate as it’s a somewhat fiddly distinction.

I meant life-affirming for me, the reader.

 

[HeadlessPostman]

Soooo many good points

 

[HockyRorror]

I'm not sure about that, though. Whenever the subject of trans individuals wanting to access single sex spaces comes up, it's almost always trans women wanting access to female toilets, changing rooms, etc.

Are there any documented cases of trans men wanting access to gay male nude spaces?

It's just most GCs say trans men are almost always lesbians who are used to society punching down on women, hence they want to 'opt out' and say they're men. Whereas the image you're portraying is of trans men who want to get into gay male spaces for a sexual thrill - in other words the exact equivalent of trans women. Which doesn't add up.

@Metropolis has provided an example, as will I here: https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/the-dreadful-lie-being-told-to-young

@Metropolis also referenced the (imo, offensively homophobic) from the (either indoctrinated or bisexual DaveyWavey) which is no longer hosted on YouTube. However MrMenno recapped it.

Btw, the original video posted was called “how to eat cat, for gay men”, (and was not a comedic video, it was a guide) so…yeah

 

[Metropolis]

Yes, I saw it on Mr Menno’s channel. I don’t make a habit of watching DaveyWavey! Off topic, but I saw Menno speak at Hyde Park. He was great

 

[daydreamer95]

From Sailors venue

Trans men and all other male identified individuals are welcome patrons, irrespective of their hormone or surgical/genital status.

From Stonewall

Trans hub

Explore the Stonewall Trans Hub to learn about trans lives, personal stories, workplace inclusion, and ways to be an ally. Stay updated with the latest…

www.stonewall.org.uk

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A straight man has written for advice on is he gay now his partner he was married to for years is a trans man

My Partner Came Out as a Trans Man. Does That Make Me Gay?

Zachary Zane helps a guy grappling with labels in this week's Sexplain It.

www.menshealth.com

 

[Ensay]

I notice in America they seem to be getting more blatant about their homophobia. I watched this video the other day as I was interested in whether Disney was really losing the money the title says:



A lot of the 'go woke, go broke' content that those channels normally put out is based more on the trans/non-binary angle. Simply having gay characters isn't normally put into that bracket. But this video adds gay characters to its list of woke. Firstly she falsely claims Buzz Lightyear was made gay in a recent film, then one of them rolls their eyes at a film that had a romance between two men (like simply existing as gay people is 'woke') and finally at 5:12 she uses the phrase "they're trying to force the gay agenda" unironically.

The whole video was just a major yikes to me. The pair of them would only be happy if every character in a Disney film was straight. If any character is gay, no matter how subtle, then they label it as woke virtue signalling worthy of a boycott. They also imply having a gay character automatically makes a film unsuitable for family viewing.

It makes me mad how it's fine for the Princess to fall in love with a Prince, but any gay romance is made out to be seedy somehow.

 

[OwlAtTheMoon]

From Sailors venue

Trans men and all other male identified individuals are welcome patrons, irrespective of their hormone or surgical/genital status.

From Stonewall

View attachment 2295640

Trans hub

Explore the Stonewall Trans Hub to learn about trans lives, personal stories, workplace inclusion, and ways to be an ally. Stay updated with the latest…

www.stonewall.org.uk

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A straight man has written for advice on is he gay now his partner he was married to for years is a trans man

My Partner Came Out as a Trans Man. Does That Make Me Gay?

Zachary Zane helps a guy grappling with labels in this week's Sexplain It.

www.menshealth.com

I can't tell whether you're posting these articles because you agree with them, or are critical? Either stance is of course fine, you're entitled to your views on lgbtq.
For me though it's unequivocally normal that any adult human can/should be free to fall in love/have sex with/be partners with another consenting adult human regardless of their labelled/chosen/evolving gender identity. What business is it, when it comes down to it, of anyone else?

 

[NorthernLight2022]

Soooo many good points

Ugh, this is such a sad example of someone who needs to oppose the «normal» opinions to feel special. Just because you’re gay, doesn’t mean you’re not able to be a conservative homophobic. Just like a person of color can be a raging racist or even neonazi

If it’s wrong to «flaunt your gender and or sexuality» well then we need to critique normal cis hetero marriage also. It’s being blasted to our kids from the time they are born.

I also hate this «it’s too loud, it brings people against us». It’s the same with the climate discussion. We are on a dying planet being ducked by us (I have a PhD in climate physics), it can NEVER BE TOO LOUD, until we change something. The only annoying and stupid thing is dying cause the weather gets too extreme to make food or live a normal life. That people are allowed to walk the streets in drag, as trans, as queer or as a woman without getting slurs thrown after them, being labelled as mentally ill or being physically abused - it is about basic human rights. It can not be said loud enough. People are being murdered, abused. It’s not about an annoying song, or a football team being mentioned everywhere all the time until saturation and boredom. It’s about the lives of others. (I am a cis hetero woman, married to a cis man and have two kids who I raise to accept everyone and we celebrate pride cause also my kids can be queer or trans and they shall be loved no matter what).

 

[Ensay]

Ugh, this is such a sad example of someone who needs to oppose the «normal» opinions to feel special. Just because you’re gay, doesn’t mean you’re not able to be a conservative homophobic. Just like a person of color can be a raging racist or even neonazi

If it’s wrong to «flaunt your gender and or sexuality» well then we need to critique normal cis hetero marriage also. It’s being blasted to our kids from the time they are born.

I also hate this «it’s too loud, it brings people against us». It’s the same with the climate discussion. We are on a dying planet being ducked by us (I have a PhD in climate physics), it can NEVER BE TOO LOUD, until we change something. The only annoying and stupid thing is dying cause the weather gets too extreme to make food or live a normal life. That people are allowed to walk the streets in drag, as trans, as queer or as a woman without getting slurs thrown after them, being labelled as mentally ill or being physically abused - it is about basic human rights. It can not be said loud enough. People are being murdered, abused. It’s not about an annoying song, or a football team being mentioned everywhere all the time until saturation and boredom. It’s about the lives of others. (I am a cis hetero woman, married to a cis man and have two kids who I raise to accept everyone and we celebrate pride cause also my kids can be queer or trans and they shall be loved no matter what).

Yeah I respect difference of opinion but when gay people seem so against Pride and the LGBT community to the point they make YouTube videos about it, I find it ventures into attention seeking territory. It's designed to annoy people, to get them clicking/sharing and talking about said video.

Everyone's entitled to their views of course, though I find it strange when people who are happy to reap the benefits of equality (eg she acknowledges she can walk down the street holding her girlfriend's hand) also seem happy to publicly tit on many of the people who made that equality possible.

Some of it's designed to appeal to a more conservative right leaning crowd, though many of those would still secretly condemn her because she's gay. For many that's the sticking point. You could agree with them politically in every other way, but if you're gay, they'll still dislike you.

 

[daydreamer95]

I can't tell whether you're posting these articles because you agree with them, or are critical? Either stance is of course fine, you're entitled to your views on lgbtq.
For me though it's unequivocally normal that any adult human can/should be free to fall in love/have sex with/be partners with another consenting adult human regardless of their labelled/chosen/evolving gender identity. What business is it, when it comes down to it, of anyone else?

You can’t tell if I’m agreeing or critical it’s prompted declaration it’s normal for anybody to fall in love with who they want

Consenting adults can fall in love / have sex with whoever they want nothing I’ve posted would suggest otherwise

The Sailors male only venue posts were further details from article posted by Metropolis, they have confirmed trans identified men with breasts and vaginas have right to entry after a trans man was made unwelcome with complaints a woman was in their space

What is there to agree or be critical of?


A straight man who supports / loves his now husband asks question is he gay, what is there to agree or be critical of?

 

[OwlAtTheMoon]

Daydreamer, without any accompanying words to determine someone's take on any info/links they post, it's obviously harder to know whether they're just posting info to share because they're on board with it, or instead for titillation puropses because they find the content shocking/distasteful. Putting a quote in bold and not commenting on it tends to suggest the latter in this case, though I could of course be wrong.
This to explain further my previous post.

 

[daydreamer95]

Owl you think the quote in bold is for titillation purposes?

irrespective of their hormone or surgical/genital status.

Its highlighting position of Sailors gay venue that trans men with breasts and vaginas have right to entry after a trans man was made unwelcome with complaints a woman was in their space

What should I have agreed with or been critical of?

 

[Copacapybara]

I'm not sure about that, though. Whenever the subject of trans individuals wanting to access single sex spaces comes up, it's almost always trans women wanting access to female toilets, changing rooms, etc.

Are there any documented cases of trans men wanting access to gay male nude spaces?

It's just most GCs say trans men are almost always lesbians who are used to society punching down on women, hence they want to 'opt out' and say they're men. Whereas the image you're portraying is of trans men who want to get into gay male spaces for a sexual thrill - in other words the exact equivalent of trans women. Which doesn't add up.

I’ve read instances where young trans men went to fairly full-on events for gay men and were kinda just sat there being ignored and getting upset and confused that they weren’t a focus of interest.

The guys were fine towards them and not hostile in any way, but were pretty baffled and uncomfortable. It’s not great for anyone IMO and I think a lot of current narratives may be giving people unrealistic expectations in terms of how they will be perceived in those spaces.

 

[OwlAtTheMoon]

Getting a slight sinking deja vu feeling again so just gonna park it there so as not to derail. (ETA referring here to mine and Daydreamer's exchanges)

On another note, watching Wimbledon atm (excellent Alcaraz v Berrettini match) and it crossed my mind there's still a way to go before gay players might feel totally comfortable to be 'out' in this sport, at this level. Nothing to do with these two players in the match I'm watching, but just thinking of the heteronormative scenario of the wife/girlfriend/boyfriend watching from the player's family box. I don't think I've ever seen any same sex partner referred to. It'd be a good day for lgb equality if it was totally the norm for the commentators to note casually, 'And there's Mr Xxxx's husband/Ms Xxx's wife, nervously living through every point of this nerve-shredding set.'

 

[daydreamer95]

Getting a slight sinking deja vu feeling again so just gonna park it there so as not to derail.

What should I have agreed with or been critical of that shouldn’t be difficult to answer when that’s the point you made?