LGB Discussion

[rainbowlemon]

Seems like one group is ruining it for everyone else:

"In response to the complaints, Adventure Island CEO, Philip Miller MBE, said the company will not be participating in any future Pride celebrations."

“The grinding act was most definitely a nonstarter as we are ostensibly a family park and that is just not family entertainment. "

'We won't host pride event again' – Adventure Island boss is sorry for 'grinding act'

The drag act is seen in a bright orange and yellow leotard, with fishnet tights, and a pair of black high heels.

www.echo-news.co.uk

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Mr Sunak is a practising Hindu and religion has been important to him. He also wears the thread. I think his voting history reflects his real beliefs.

His account most likely managed by someone else.

 

[Ensay]

Possibly, though I did a bit of research and it seems like there's a large variance of attitudes when it comes to Hinduism and its attitudes towards same sex relationships/marriages.

I suppose that's the case with plenty of other religions, though I feel like most religions have an 'official' stance on it and then some worshippers apply that to the letter, whereas others don't.

My mum's a practising Catholic - she goes to mass every week and has her beliefs - but she's always been fine with my sexuality. I remember she was once challenged on this by my brother (not in a nasty way, he was playing devil's advocate) and she said she takes the 'good' aspects of the religion - like loving your neighbour, helping people out, etc while ignoring the less nice parts. She raised a good point that all Christians do that to a degree, given there are passages in the Bible about not eating shellfish or wearing mixed fabrics, which get ignored by 99.9% of worshippers.

Sadly I think some religious people use their religion to justify homophobic attitudes, when they say things like "well, I love gay people which is why I point their sin out to them. I love them as people, but I have to tell them that if they act on their urges then they're going straight to hell and I only do it because I love them!" If a new religion were to come about, like Scientology did, that said black people were sinners we'd rightly call that out as unjustifiable racism, but homophobia seems to be more tolerated when it's backed up by religion.
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Speaking of Rishi, I just saw he's issued an apology for the ban on LGBT people serving in the armed forces, calling it an "appalling failure of the British state" that was "decades behind the law of this land".

"Today, on behalf of the British state, I apologise", he says.

I know many people impacted have said they would like an apology. Clearly it doesn't 'fix' the hurt caused, but it's something.

 

[HockyRorror]

Possibly, though I did a bit of research and it seems like there's a large variance of attitudes when it comes to Hinduism and its attitudes towards same sex relationships/marriages.

I suppose that's the case with plenty of other religions, though I feel like most religions have an 'official' stance on it and then some worshippers apply that to the letter, whereas others don't.

My mum's a practising Catholic - she goes to mass every week and has her beliefs - but she's always been fine with my sexuality. I remember she was once challenged on this by my brother (not in a nasty way, he was playing devil's advocate) and she said she takes the 'good' aspects of the religion - like loving your neighbour, helping people out, etc while ignoring the less nice parts. She raised a good point that all Christians do that to a degree, given there are passages in the Bible about not eating shellfish or wearing mixed fabrics, which get ignored by 99.9% of worshippers.

Sadly I think some religious people use their religion to justify homophobic attitudes, when they say things like "well, I love gay people which is why I point their sin out to them. I love them as people, but I have to tell them that if they act on their urges then they're going straight to hell and I only do it because I love them!" If a new religion were to come about, like Scientology did, that said black people were sinners we'd rightly call that out as unjustifiable racism, but homophobia seems to be more tolerated when it's backed up by religion.
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Speaking of Rishi, I just saw he's issued an apology for the ban on LGBT people serving in the armed forces, calling it an "appalling failure of the British state" that was "decades behind the law of this land".

"Today, on behalf of the British state, I apologise", he says.

I know many people impacted have said they would like an apology. Clearly it doesn't 'fix' the hurt caused, but it's something.

Religion, like veganism, is hypocritical unless you follow it to the nth degree, IMO. I know vegans who look down their noses on meat eaters (and also often voice their disgust, loudly) but will wear leather shoes and own leather couches and other stuff and claim it’s “too hard” to seek out alternatives.
Likewise, there’s countless Christians I know who have gone through a divorce, hate thy neighbour, etc and countless Muslims I know who drink alcohol and gamble.

“I don’t hate the sinner, I just hate the sin” must be in at least the top 5 most passive aggressive popular comments to exist

 

[Ensay]

Religion, like veganism, is hypocritical unless you follow it to the nth degree, IMO. I know vegans who look down their noses on meat eaters (and also often voice their disgust, loudly) but will wear leather shoes and own leather couches and other stuff and claim it’s “too hard” to seek out alternatives.
Likewise, there’s countless Christians I know who have gone through a divorce, hate thy neighbour, etc and countless Muslims I know who drink alcohol and gamble.

“I don’t hate the sinner, I just hate the sin” must be in at least the top 5 most passive aggressive popular comments to exist

Yeah I've heard vegans make the excuse that the animal has already been killed so it's OK to use that leather(!)

Completely agree with the last bit, I think it's the self righteousness that gets me. Plus it's straight people that say it safe in the knowledge that they can have sex with the opposite sex and they'll be fine, but if gay people have gay sex then they're off to Hell! Just piss off.

A friend of mine asked me why I care what religious people think of me and it's not so much caring what they think, but their holier than thou attitude is just so hypocritical. I've heard them say "but we're all sinners, we all lie for example". Yeah, but lying isn't the same as a gay person having consensual sex.

 

[Metropolis]

I’ve seen how religion can duck-up gay people. I had a friend who grew up in a religious (CofE) family. It was a pretty evangelical sort of church and the mental stress he underwent trying to reconcile being gay and deal with the coming out process left him on anti depressants and seeing a psychologist for a period of time.

When he was stronger, he realised it was okay to reject the religion and didn’t have much to do with the church after that, except for when the vicar decided to host an evening entitled ‘homosexuality and Christianity’. We went along to hear his spiel (he actually uttered the love the sinner, hate the sin phrase) and advocated ‘praying the gay away.’ This vicar actually said he’d had homosexual feelings as a young man and that praying had made him straight (well, he had a wife and several kids, but he sounded more like he was trying to convince himself). My friend argued vociferously against this tit and I hope he gave the vicar pause for thought.

 

[daydreamer95]

Outing for activism purposes, came across this article looking through public figures that have either spontaneously announced sexuality

Public Good--or Private Matters? : Advocates of 'outing' gay celebrities and powerbrokers say the process is just a part ofgaining equality. But critics say it's crossing the line between gossip and news.

It only seemed as if it took six weeks.

www.latimes.com

 

[Sideboard Bob]

Outing for activism purposes, came across this article looking through public figures that have either spontaneously announced sexuality


View attachment 2322084

Public Good--or Private Matters? : Advocates of 'outing' gay celebrities and powerbrokers say the process is just a part ofgaining equality. But critics say it's crossing the line between gossip and news.

It only seemed as if it took six weeks.

www.latimes.com

No one should be outed against their will. Never, If someone’s in the closer, in 2023, it’s for a good reason.

 

[rainbowlemon]

Man arrested in Turkey and locked up for 20 days 'because he looked gay and was wearing a crop top' | LBC

A Portuguese man was arrested in Turkey and kept in disgusting conditions in prison because he "looked gay", he has claimed.

www.lbc.co.uk

"They thought I would participate in an unauthorised LGBTI+ march that was going to take place nearby because I looked gay. I was in the wrong place at the wrong time."

Mr Alvaro said that the officers had orders to arrest a certain number of people in connection with the parade, and he was one of the unlucky victims.

 

[HockyRorror]

Stonewall hasn’t had a good last few days have they?
that interview was appalling (and hilarious )

 

[Ensay]

They've managed to annoy people on both sides of the 'debate' it would seem.

 

[HockyRorror]

The banking drama continues to roll on… i am smugly glad to be proved correct with my claims earlier this month that banks are absolutely closing down accounts and banning customers access to their money over gender critical beliefs, amongst other things, and after the Farage debacle it all seems to be tumbling out and proving me correct.

The arrogance of this from the banking industry of all sectors is absolutely staggering.
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Just catching up on this… The biggest shock since Brexit!? Nigel Farage tweets xeets public support and sympathy to Gina Miller for her bank account being closed for political reasons and she publicly tweets xeets him her thanks!

 

[Ensay]

Banks have a massive responsibility to do everything they can to combat money laundering and dodginess in general. Politically exposed persons (PEPs) are considered higher risk because the likelihood of being bribed is higher than the general public. Consequently, banks sometimes can't be arsed with it all. It's easier to refuse service than accepting it and implementing the extra fraud controls.

Monzo said they made a mistake in ever allowing Miller an account, as their stance is not to allow political party accounts. Which I get is annoying, but it's not like they're trying to cancel her.

Regarding Nigel Farage, clearly the bank shouldn't have leaked private information, but Farage has taken advantage of it to the nth degree. Emily Maitlis sums it up - also on Twitter X:

 

[HockyRorror]

Not sure why you’re continuing to go down the PEP line when more than several stories have broken in the past week about similar scenarios regarding people who who are not involved in politics whatsoever but banks have deemed bad.

And yes, clearly banks shouldn’t leak private information. I’d be horrified if they decided to post your finances online for all to see and then close your account because they found out you criticised them on Tattle.

regarding the Emily Matliss clip - if it’s not a big deal and it’s nothing more than a storm in a teacup, then why has the Coutts CEO resigned? Why did the BBC post a formal apology personally to Nigel Farage? Why has the FCA posted a public statement saying they are going to investigate?

 

[Mel Donte]

New to this thread so sorry if this has all been discussed before but for me I have no issue with the trans women who sometimes pop up in the les scene that I'm involved in. However, I do feel like my identity and community is being eroded by the huge amount of non binary people who attend events like Butch Please. There are almost always plenty of trans men at these events too. I don't understand why they feel the need to go to les events - there are plenty of nights that are for the whole LGBTQ community, it's not like they've got a limited choice.

 

[Ensay]

Resigning is a reputational thing. Something bad happens (leaking of information in this case) and someone senior pretty much always falls on their sword.

Farage no longer had enough funds for an account with Coutts and so they decided to close his account, as the mortgage ended this month.

The below page contains the following quote: "Clients are required to maintain at least £1m in investments or borrowing (mortgage), or £3m in savings."

Join us | Coutts

Join Coutts to grow and protect your wealth in a supportive culture where our expertise fosters lasting relationships built on trust.

www.coutts.com

Should anyone without £1m in investments or £3m in savings say they're being discriminated against for not being allowed to open a Coutts account? They've always had strict eligibility rules.

The FCA has to investigate when allegations are made. They'd be a poor regulator if they refused.
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New to this thread so sorry if this has all been discussed before but for me I have no issue with the trans women who sometimes pop up in the les scene that I'm involved in. However, I do feel like my identity and community is being eroded by the huge amount of non binary people who attend events like Butch Please. There are almost always plenty of trans men at these events too. I don't understand why they feel the need to go to les events - there are plenty of nights that are for the whole LGBTQ community, it's not like they've got a limited choice.

It's definitely a tricky one! I understand why you feel that way, as with events like 'Butch Please', you could reasonably assume it's going to be all lesbians there. I feel kind of similar when it comes to gay bars. I don't really like it when massive hen parties with straight women descend on them, especially as they can often ogle and it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable in a place where I'm supposed to feel 'at home'.

But I wouldn't want to ban them either, as that feels heavy handed.

And welcome to the thread - most things have been discussed here at some point, but that doesn't matter - it's always good to hear what new people think.
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Not to drone on about the Farage farce, but I just noticed Sangita sums it up even better!

 

[Metropolis]

New to this thread so sorry if this has all been discussed before but for me I have no issue with the trans women who sometimes pop up in the les scene that I'm involved in. However, I do feel like my identity and community is being eroded by the huge amount of non binary people who attend events like Butch Please. There are almost always plenty of trans men at these events too. I don't understand why they feel the need to go to les events - there are plenty of nights that are for the whole LGBTQ community, it's not like they've got a limited choice.

With regard to trans men, a lot of them are same sex attracted (ie female sex attracted to other females) so I guess that’s why they turn up at Butch Please. Also, I guess if they’re not on hormones, then they may feel more at home attending les events. Regarding non-binary people (if you accept gender ideology), if you’re non-binary, that is your gender expression not your sexual orientation so you can be both non-binary and a les. As for trans women, unless you’re prepared to accept the ‘female pen’, that’s a big turn off for a lot of les / bi women as effectively they are heterosexual biological males.

 

[HockyRorror]

^^ What a sad state of affairs to explain the justification of same-sex attraction (not what you wrote @Metropolis , just the situation
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Farage no longer had enough funds for an account with Coutts and so they decided to close his account, as the mortgage ended this month.

Not sure if you have kept up with this story or not but it’s been confirmed that that is not the reason why his account was closed, despite the initial statement claiming so.

 

[Mel Donte]

With regard to trans men, a lot of them are same sex attracted (ie female sex attracted to other females) so I guess that’s why they turn up at Butch Please. Also, I guess if they’re not on hormones, then they may feel more at home attending les events. Regarding non-binary people (if you accept gender ideology), if you’re non-binary, that is your gender expression not your sexual orientation so you can be both non-binary and a les. As for trans women, unless you’re prepared to accept the ‘female pen’, that’s a big turn off for a lot of les / bi women as effectively they are heterosexual biological males.

I guess my view on non binary people in les spaces is coloured by personal experience - I've dated two non binary people (the first person I knew was non binary from the outset, the other identified as a woman when we got together) and both of them grew uncomfortable with me calling myself a les. The one trans woman I dated was a stone butch so her genitals weren't really a factor in our sex life.

Maybe I'm just being territorial with regards to non binary (afab) people in les spaces but I just feel like... you don't identify as "one of us" so why are you accessing and sometimes dominating our spaces? That said I don't have an issue with bisexual women in les spaces so idk

 

[Ensay]

^^ What a sad state of affairs to explain the justification of same-sex attraction (not what you wrote @Metropolis , just the situation
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Not sure if you have kept up with this story or not but it’s been confirmed that that is not the reason why his account was closed, despite the initial statement claiming so.

I have kept up and that's still a big part of it. The reputational aspect was part of it admittedly, but the fact his mortgage was ending in July 2023 was clearly stated in the dossier screenshots.

I think Farage is having too much emphasis placed on this and it's not right that Sunak and Hunt are doing his bidding. And the anger is very one sided, too. This quote sums it up:

Underpinning all of this, though, is Brexit. This week’s row wouldn’t have happened at all, let alone at the volume it did, if the bank’s victim had been a remainer like Gary Lineker or Delia Smith, let alone Keir Starmer. If one of these had been debanked, rather than Farage, everything would have been very different. The whole focus would have been on their ill-gotten riches, their hypocrisy for banking with Coutts. There would have been gloating at their fall, not the fury that was voiced on Farage’s behalf.

To make it at least a bit on topic, Farage is an anti same sex marriage homophobe so he can get ducked as far as I'm concerned. I've got no time for people who don't believe in my rights. I think it's part of getting older.

 

[Metropolis]

I've dated two non binary people (the first person I knew was non binary from the outset, the other identified as a woman when we got together) and both of them grew uncomfortable with me calling myself a les.

Anyone seeking to get you to redefine yourself to suit their agenda is a red flag in my opinion and I’m not surprised the non-binary identity has made you wary. As someone who doesn’t accept the premise of gender ideology, it concerns me that people who would formerly not have been considered part of the les community are using this ideology to gain access to les spaces and change the parameters of what it means to be les /gay/ bi.