LGB Discussion

[DanaScully]

Hello

I'm a gender critical, same sex attracted lesbian and I feel very detached from the whole movement now. Trans and q*eer ideology has completely trampled LGB matters into the ground.

Same sex attraction is valid and it's disgusting that lesbians are being called genital fetishists for excluding males from their dating pool. My heart bleeds for young lesbians who are being indoctrinated by the gender cult and aren't strong enough to push back.

 

[judgejohndeed]

More recent topics are:

1. Is it homophobic to be against same sex marriage?

I’m not LGB so won’t intrude other than to say I am sad and horrified this is even a question

 

[HockyRorror]

I find the “new” flag grossly offensive and to me it’s a visual representation of what is actually happening.

If it looks like an invasion…

 

[HockyRorror]

I HATE the word queer with a passion and it makes me feel sick. Worse still, it’s now a catch-all word where you have completely heterosexual people in completely heterosexual relationships (*cough* Jameela Jamil *cough*) calling themselves queer and in a “queer relationship” and acting like she’s marginalised and ostracised and bullied for it. GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE! And those types are the FIRST to whine about cultural appropriation. Hypocrisy at its finest.

 

[Ensay]

Hi, @DanaScully! I'm glad someone has posted, as I thought this was going to sink like a stone with no reply.

I probably should have said I'm a same sex attracted gay man. I'm not interested in trans men that way, though I would of course be perfectly civil to them. I don't want to cause any offence, but vaginas aren't my thing. So I fully get where you're coming from.

Stonewall seems to be all about being pro-trans nowadays and the LGB Alliance is all about being anti-trans. There doesn't seem to be an organisation that's fully for us and our rights. It's a bit depressing in my opinion.

 

[Sideboard Bob]

Welcome.

And yes, I definitely share your concerns regarding pushback. It feels like lots of western countries are veering towards the right (the USA being an obvious example). That's why I sometimes despair when people say things like "we don't need Pride anymore, they've got equal rights now".

When Wimbledon was on, I watched an interview with Billie Jean King. I can't remember her exact quote, but she was effectively saying that rights should never be taken for granted. We shouldn't rest on our laurels, because there's always the risk they can be taken away again. It really hit home and convinced me to continue the fight.

Oh definitely. When you mentioned western countries, it made me rememberer something. There are still so many parts of the world where it’s illegal or dangerous to be openly gay. We still have a long way to go. “We” might have equal rights now, but we can’t forget our sisters and brothers around the world who don’t.

 

[HockyRorror]

Thank you for starting this thread @Ensay ! Look forward to discussions in here!

In answer to your questions:


Is it homophobic to be against same sex marriage?

My knee-jerk reaction is yes. This is coming from a “a marriage certificate is a legal document” stance. When the religious aspect comes into it, I think it’s more nuanced. But religion doesn’t own marriage. So I’d say yes.

Is the LGB Alliance a good replacement for Stonewall?
For me, it’s not only a good replacement, not only a great replacement, but (forgive the dramatics) a shining lifeboat in the middle of a dark and dangerous ocean. I have felt so sidelined by SW during the past decade or so and until I found discussion areas like this online honestly thought I was going crazy at one point. I am sick to the back teeth of all the gaslighting lies and attempts at gay conversion therapy (transing) of young teens and children that SW are pushing. I am SO GLAD their time has seemingly finally come. I am saddened when I remember why it was set up and what it once stood for, but they only have themselves to blame. Steven Fanshawe, an original founder, agrees, while current CEO, Nancy Kelley, describes people that are same sex attracted and who (obviously) won’t consider trans people in their dating pool as “sexual racists”. For a so-called gay organisation that is abhorrent and unforgivable in my eyes.

Was Tom Daley right to highlight anti LGB Commonwealth countries' laws at the Commonwealth Games opening ceremony?

I watched this but didn’t hear him speak but heard the commentator said he was holding the baton(?) to highlight the commonwealth countries where homosexuality was still illegal. Yes, it was in his right and I fully support him doing so. No lies were told.

Do you feel homophobia is decreasing? Stats suggest a rise - but is that because it's better reported now?

I would like to know whether these rising stats relate specifically and only to homophobia or anti-LGBT which these days often means anti-T which these days can mean anything from correctly sexing a person, to a “nasty tweet”.

Hope this is a long running thread!

 

[sheleg]

I hate what the T has done to LGB. I feel like we welcomed them, believing the narrative that T belongs with LGB. What we’ve got in return is a load of abuse for our “genital preferences“, and we’re back to square one with being perceived as degenerates and perverts thanks to the actions of a small faction. We were so close to being accepted as regular people going about our lives. Now public opinion is turning against us. It’s hard not to be bitter.

 

[emmer_moans]

I hate what the T has done to LGB. I feel like we welcomed them, believing the narrative that T belongs with LGB. What we’ve got in return is a load of abuse for our “genital preferences“, and we’re back to square one with being perceived as degenerates and perverts thanks to the actions of a small faction. We were so close to being accepted as regular people going about our lives. Now public opinion is turning against us. It’s hard not to be bitter.

It’s sad to see this is happening to LGB community From a non-LGB perspective, I don’t think it helps LGB that the pride flag itself has been co-opted and changed to include the TQ stuff. The TQ demands are causing a lot of people concern and I suppose when that new version of the flag is rammed in peoples’ faces by social media, marketing and employers in scenarios where it’s unncessary (e.g. cat food endorsements? Banks, etc ) then it will inevitably get peoples’ backs up cause confusion. Do I feel exasperated when I see these Progress versions of flags everywhere? Yes. Honestly, yes. But hand on heart I have no ill feeling towards LGB. Most of the general population are likely to conflate the TQ demands with LGB concerns and lump them together as one, because the TQ have essentially tacked themselves on to the LGB, seem to be loudest on social media and in advisory roles, and are doing a disservice to the LGB community who have fought so hard for rights and public acceptance.

I know I’ve ranted about the flags on the GC thread but it’s out of frustration of this persistent pushing from the TQ. Never in frustration at LGB, from me. Pride, as has been mentioned up thread, has its good functions and provides a safe space for many LGB people. It should be allowed to happen and be supported. It also shouldn’t be hijacked by others to take it away from the original purpose. I think LGB should have Pride and the flag back, back to focussing on genuine LGB concerns, and the TQ should stick to their own flag, and run their own events (and stop trampling on women and children, and stop ruining public goodwill).

I’m glad this thread was started, I am reading and learning. I am thoroughly GC, but consider myself an ally of LGB.

 

[Ensay]

I think we tried a good while ago to have an LGB discussion topic, but it didn't quite take off. I think the title may not have helped things.

But anyway, I sometimes discuss LGB topics on the Gender Discussion thread, but it's very loosely related to the topic of gender and so it feels a bit off topic to discuss sexual orientation.

It'd be good to discuss anything LGB here. Anyone's welcome - you don't have to be lesbian, gay or bisexual.

More recent topics are:

1. Is it homophobic to be against same sex marriage?
2. Is the LGB Alliance a good replacement for Stonewall?

But also some other topics:

1. Was Tom Daley right to highlight anti LGB Commonwealth countries' laws at the Commonwealth Games opening ceremony?
2. Do you feel homophobia is decreasing? Stats suggest a rise - but is that because it's better reported now?

Or feel free to raise anything else!

 

[Metropolis]

I have no issue if an adult with dysphoria wants to undergo surgery; their body, their choice. But I do have a problem with kids being given any kind of medical or surgical ‘gender affirming’ intervention. Also, of this current trans cohort, most of them, particularly men, don’t bother having any surgery at all. We are told they have ‘lady dick’ and that we must accept them as women. If we protest, they become aggressive and laugh at us. This is what is causing the backlash. I have every sympathy for people who are so dysphoric they voluntarily undergo mutilation of their sexual organs, but most trans people don’t want this.

Ironically, the religious right seems to find it more acceptable to have a ‘trans’ child than face the possibility that their kid may be gay, so it’s a convenient scapegoat for homophobia. I’ve read accounts of transmen who as teenagers felt a sexual attraction to women and instead of concluding, ‘Oh I’m a lesbian’, went straight to, ‘I must be trans’.

@Ensay, you said in one of your posts on the previous page that you are a live and let live sort of person and that you acknowledge the trans thing as a thing, but not a big thing. Do you think your point of view is informed by the fact that trans ideology has had no direct impact on you yet as a gay man? I mean no disrespect, but a lot of men don’t see it as a problem because transmen are never going to pose a physical threat to you. If you encounter a transman in the gents, you will not, for example, be worried about them overpowering you if they wanted. I don’t know if you do competitive sport, but again, a transman wouldn’t affect your competition standing, but a transwoman would have a direct impact on the attainment of a biological woman.

I agree there is a rise in right-wing ideology, but actually I think gender ideology is right wing, no matter how they spin it. It reinforces regressive gender stereotypes, it stifles free speech and cancels people who don’t subscribe to the same rhetoric. TRAs have led campaigns against the publishers of authors who have expressed concern about the ideology. It’s sinister and I can’t sit back and say nothing.

Homophobia is hideous, but so is misogyny which women experience practically every day of their lives. Lesbians and bi women get a double-whammy.

I am not right-wing in the slightest and have never voted Tory in my life. Hell, even Blair was too right wing for me and I always voted for minority socialist parties. And I will always speak out when I see homophobia or racism.

 

[HockyRorror]

Homophobic hate group Mermaids has LOST their case against the LGB alliance, courts have decided it is NOT transphobic to have a group for LGB people

 

[JustHereForTheAgriculture]

Hello
I’m glad to see this thread. It really is so disheartening when you want to talk about lgb issues or even just connect socially with people but everything just focuses on the t. Or is deemed transphobic for not focusing on it. I really struggled with my sexuality for years, if I’m completely honest, I still do sometimes and I don’t think that the current situation is doing any lgb person any good.

Anyway looking forward to some good discussion

 

[bubbadabut]

By genuine I mean someone who genuinely feels they're in the wrong body and transitions, including gender reassignment surgery, to the opposite sex after therapy. I know there are some detransitioners, but the majority of people who transition are then more comfortable in their skin afterwards. I don't believe anyone takes that step lightly and without consideration.

I don't see the issue here. If someone wants to have gender reassignment surgery and feels better off for it, then who am I to argue? I'm not going to tell someone they shouldn't do that if they feel it's right. It's their body.

This is the crux of the matter. Feelings are taking precedence over scientific fact. My husband is a doctor. He would tell you without a doubt, that 100٪ of the patients he sees who claim to be trans/non binary, have either autism or learning difficulties. Vulnerable people are being preyed upon and enabled by exponents of this ridiculous ideology, yet we are told to accept it, because "feelings". People are having their bodies mutilated and/or pumped full of hormones, because "feelings". My 9 year old son was taught about being trans and what "pansexual" meant in PHSE last week. I mean, what the actual fuck?

So if someone wants gender reassignment surgery, they should have it if it makes them "feel better"? Wanting a healthy, functioning part of their body to be mutilated and fashioned into a pathetic imitation of the opposite sex's body part, does that sound like the thoughts of a rational person? Should we just say, "sure, the operating theatre is right this way".

I suffered from anorexia in my teens. I still carry the weight of it now, in my 40s. I weighed 5 and a half stone, but I still wanted to get a knife and chop off all my "fat" bits. Still do now when I'm having a bad day. It's a mental illness. No doctor would ever consider doing what I wanted them to do. But yeah, if I wanted my perfectly normal dick cut off, shoved inside me to made a bacteria‐ridden, never‐healing wound that has to be dilated every day for the rest of my life...sure, why not?

I find the whole thing nightmarish. The speed at which it has escalated, how on‐board politicians are with it, the impact of social media and agenda‐ridden websites on vulnerable people.

And finally, I don't believe that most people who've had the surgery are happier. They just find something else to focus on. The vast, vast majority of people who have the surgery don't end up looking like Hunter Schafer. They look like a man dressed a woman, or vice versa. My husband had a lorry driver patient who had the surgery. Massive bloke, there was no way he was ever going to look feminine. He became obsessed with wanting forehead surgery on the NHS. He actually.thought that having his forehead bone ground down and shaved off, would make him feel more feminine. By your reckoning, he should have been allowed to have it done. Then it would've been the next issue. That's mental illness.

 

[JustHereForTheAgriculture]

Personally it’s not something I want to get into here, because there‘s another thread for that.

This is the LGB thread. If there’s something that’s involved with LGB, like this, it’s likely to be discussed in the thread.

So, Bud Lite have been doing gay editions of their bottles for Pride month since 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022… why in 2023 after Dylan do you think there was suddenly such hostile behaviour and backlash towards “LGBT” people?

The LGB thread, IMO, Should be MORE gender critical than the gender critical thread. We are all mostly same sex or both sex attracted in this thread. I cannot believe gay people could ever argue with a straight face that a person either male or female pretending to be the opposite sex and the opposite sexuality should be taken seriously, let alone be admonished if you don’t!

Here’s the thing that has struck me for a while now. I know a lot of people don’t want to get into gender stuff on here or point to the gender thread, but, and I know this will be controversial, I feel like gender is the biggest LGB currently. Of course I don’t mean worldwide. I am only talking about countries like Ireland and the uk where there is SS marriage and a general acceptance of LGB people (though obviously homophobia still exists)

Gender and trans stuff had taken over LGB stuff to the point where we can’t have LGB spaces or groups anymore. Lesbians are being gaslit by one side telling us we have to accept trans women has partners and the other claiming that isn’t happening. People are being driven underground. Pride is now about everything and anything but being SS attracted and is so long that by mid June people are sick of rainbows. Which themselves are slowly being pushed off the bloody flag. And if you even try to distance from the umbrella group, you’re labelled as hateful, attacked.
Whatever a persons opinion on gender, I don’t know how anyone can argue it should have anything to do with LGB. It’s not related. It doesn’t help gay people in any way.
I just don’t understand.

 

[Saddlesoap]

I'm just commenting to remind myself to come back.
Straight woman here, but want to better inform myself.

 

[Lovely]

As a lesbian, I feel like I don't identify with any of mainstream LGBT culture and I certainly feel no sense of connection to the trans/NB/queer community – that all feels like a completely different movement to me and not something I recognise or want to be part of (and I don't think that aspect of the community wants lesbians around anyway!). I just want to be able to live my life with my partner, who happens to be a woman. My sexuality is part of my identity, but it's not all of who I am and I see it as quite a personal thing, not something I need to shout about or that requires constant validation.

 

[HockyRorror]

Are any other LGB people getting alarmed by the amount of people who seem to be turning their backs on us over the trans thing? Just in another thread people are expressing disgust at the pride flag because they see it as trans taking over.

Whereas I'm gay and I see it as a way of saying "we're open regardless of your sexuality and homophobic crap won't be tolerated", whereas it doesn't feel like many straight people see it that way.

I don't want to be depressing, but I only see it getting worse.

Nope. Saw it coming a mile off. Tried to warn people about it and was met with a lot of fingers in ears and “lalalalalalala can’t hear you”.

As BASIC logic, how the fuck have we allowed a bunch of heterosexuals blue haired “queers” to take over our organisations to the point where THEY are calling US bigots for being same sex attracted? The trans cuckoo in the nest has been decimating all the hard work that LGBs fought for and it’s sad. It’s sad and also infuriating that STILL some gay people are pushing “T with the LGB”.

And when it all comes crashing down eventually, and the gay cheerleaders are looking around in bewilderment wondering where all the support has gone (the “queers” long-fled and now classing their queer relationships as heterosexual), my only response will be: “I told you so”.

And as an aside, I HATE the new pride flag. At least it’s visually honest though, and doesn’t hide the invasion that it is:

 

[Ensay]

Thank you for starting this thread @Ensay ! Proud bi woman here!

I’ll need to think about your questions. I think overall, gay rights and acceptance is still such a recent thing (in terms of human history) that we need to be prepared for a pushback. I think this is the case for women’s right and the civil rights movement too.

Welcome.

And yes, I definitely share your concerns regarding pushback. It feels like lots of western countries are veering towards the right (the USA being an obvious example). That's why I sometimes despair when people say things like "we don't need Pride anymore, they've got equal rights now".

When Wimbledon was on, I watched an interview with Billie Jean King. I can't remember her exact quote, but she was effectively saying that rights should never be taken for granted. We shouldn't rest on our laurels, because there's always the risk they can be taken away again. It really hit home and convinced me to continue the fight.

I’m not LGB so won’t intrude other than to say I am sad and horrified this is even a question

Oh no please do give your opinions if you're comfortable to. I raised it here as I'd been discussing that very thing elsewhere. My view was that it is homophobic to be anti same sex marriage, but I got a lot of pushback. Which is fair enough; everyone's entitled to their views.

You may not be LGB but I'm interested in any views (I see you post in a lot of threads and always feel you offer great contributions).

 

[Into_the_tunnel]

I explained it in the first clause of my post. If you want to make a point about the words chosen, fine, I can’t be arsed.

You said clearly you are a straight male. I said at the beginning of the thread that I am a gay woman. Think for one minute how that might affect my interpretation of your post.

Think also, for one minute who makes up the majority of “the elected officials” in government in most countries.