James Bulger - sentencing

[pixieshix]

One woman asked another to watch her child , as she wanted to take James off the boys and to the police station. However the other woman wouldn’t watch her child . I can’t even imagine the feeling of guilt , that you saw these children with what you suspected to be a younger sibling.
or even believed their lie, of they were taking him to the police station as he was lost. They were two 10 year olds and you wouldn’t even suspect that they were out to harm another child . There sentence was a joke ,and it has been reported that Thompson has said if he hadn’t done what he did . He wouldn’t have had the life and opportunities he now has .
Side note - where does the name Jamie come from ? I’ve seen People called him Jamie, when as far as I was aware that wasn’t even a nickname his parents used ?

 

[gigi_93]

One woman asked another to watch her child , as she wanted to take James off the boys and to the police station. However the other woman wouldn’t watch her child . I can’t even imagine the feeling of guilt , that you saw these children with what you suspected to be a younger sibling.
or even believed their lie, of they were taking him to the police station as he was lost. They were two 10 year olds and you wouldn’t even suspect that they were out to harm another child . There sentence was a joke ,and it has been reported that Thompson has said if he hadn’t done what he did . He wouldn’t have had the life and opportunities he now has .
Side note - where does the name Jamie come from ? I’ve seen People called him Jamie, when as far as I was aware that wasn’t even a nickname his parents used ?

Denise doesn’t like people calling him Jamie. It’s James. The press started the Jamie thing

 

[pixieshix]

Denise doesn’t like people calling him Jamie. It’s James. The press started the Jamie thing

I thought it was the press ( the sun ), but I couldn’t remember properly .

 

[The King in the North]

I think they should have got longer than what they get. I still do believe that Venables played the most part of it, due to his actions in later life, while Thompson, has kept a quiet life and hasn't been reoffending like Venables has. I just want to know what makes two kids murder a little baby in such a brutal manner?

 

[Flossy2019]

I don’t buy this nonsense that they thought he was like a toy and could be fixed. They were old enough to know the difference. Whatever happened to them in their personal lives is awful, but they were absolutely cruel and evil towards that innocent little baby. Because that’s what Jamie was, a baby. A two year old wouldn’t know any better, but don’t try to sell it like those two preteens didn’t have a clue. Even my 5 year old knows basic right from wrong.

I completely agree. Who knows what horror films or video games they’d been on. Pretty sure they didn’t think he was a toy. I’m sure I heard something similar happens in chucky. I could be wrong.. but I don’t care how young they were they never should have been let out

What i dont get is why witnesses who saw them just let them continue? James was seen crying, he was distressed and people who saw them, just let them continue dragging this little boy around.

If you saw two boys with another boy I’m sure you’d just assume he was their brother you wouldnt imagine what they actually did I’m sure . This case has haunted me forever

 

[prinnygrace]

I did my uni dissertation on the minimum age of criminal responsibility and I actually interviewed the old chief exec of the youth justice board. It was super interesting to hear his opinion on it all. This case made up a huge chunk of my diss.

I believe that our rehabilitation system (or lack of) needs a serious overhaul. What those boys did was absolutely despicable but they were children. They needed help.

I do think Venables has had his chance now and needs locking up for good. He is a danger to society and I don't think he will ever change his ways anymore. However, maybe if he had some proper rehab at the time then there may have been a chance. The rehab place he was in... he went swimming every week, went out to the shops, his room was decorated in LFC things. It sounds like a child's idea of a fun holiday. He needed some hardcore rules and some therapy to sort out what he had gone through as a child (his upbringing was awful from what I know).

Our current minimal age of criminal responsibility is 10 years old. 10 is far too young to be tried in an adults court in my opinion. You may understand that murder is wrong at that age but you would not understand the criminal justice system and the jargon that is used, your rights as you stand trial and what the procedure would be. I think it needs to be raised to 13-15. Before that age, the focus should be on rehabilitation rather than stringent punishment.

I don't think I will ever forget this case. So heartbreaking.

 

[Purrrrrrr]

Thomson was the one who had a horrendous life. One or two of his siblings asked to be taken into care before the murder, two also attempted suicide. Being sent away had a good effect on his life he turned it around got qualifications. So in his case rehabilitation worked.

Venables didn't have a great life but it wasn't on the scale of Thompsons.

 

[Lulu Goss]

Thomson was the one who had a horrendous life. One or two of his siblings asked to be taken into care before the murder, two also attempted suicide. Being sent away had a good effect on his life he turned it around got qualifications. So in his case rehabilitation worked.

Venables didn't have a great life but it wasn't on the scale of Thompsons.

Is there anywhere to read the backgrounds of their childhoods?

 

[Purrrrrrr]

Is there anywhere to read the backgrounds of their childhoods?

Here is a starting point.

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https.../uk/2000/nov/01/bulger.familyandrelationships

 

[Pawpaw365]

Our current minimal age of criminal responsibility is 10 years old. 10 is far too young to be tried in an adults court in my opinion. You may understand that murder is wrong at that age but you would not understand the criminal justice system and the jargon that is used, your rights as you stand trial and what the procedure would be. I think it needs to be raised to 13-15. Before that age, the focus should be on rehabilitation rather than stringent punishment.

I don't think I will ever forget this case. So heartbreaking.
[/QUOTE]
They have a children’s court for anyone under the age of 18, just to clarify.

 

[prinnygrace]

Our current minimal age of criminal responsibility is 10 years old. 10 is far too young to be tried in an adults court in my opinion. You may understand that murder is wrong at that age but you would not understand the criminal justice system and the jargon that is used, your rights as you stand trial and what the procedure would be. I think it needs to be raised to 13-15. Before that age, the focus should be on rehabilitation rather than stringent punishment.

I don't think I will ever forget this case. So heartbreaking.

They have a children’s court for anyone under the age of 18, just to clarify.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah they do sorry I didn’t make that clear! But it’s still like the adult system they go through which I don’t agree with at that age. I think they need an entirely different system.

 

[Cubalibra]

Itll be interesting to read nspcc Thompson’s family case review.

 

[Kindred_]

Sorry if these questions are obvious but, if they have their identity changed, can they still see their family? Or do they just see them under new names now? And wouldn’t that put them at risk of being exposed by aunts/uncles/cousins etc.

Also do they have a clean criminal record? Do they have to tell employers who they are when they run CRB checks? Or will nothing come up because they are new people? (If that’s the case, surely the can’t have jobs around children?)

I’m also curious about this!

 

[TJ90]

I can’t remember which one of them it was but they served their sentence in Redbank (it shut down about 10 years ago now) he would have had access to nice things in there - TV, pool table, games consoles, could even select what sweets they wanted to be ordered in from the cash and carry. They were never punished for what they did.
Being from Liverpool this will always be fresh in people’s minds here. Things that happened to James even the press agreed not to print because they were that harrowing.
That poor baby boy.

 

[Purrrrrrr]

I can’t remember which one of them it was but they served their sentence in Redbank (it shut down about 10 years ago now) he would have had access to nice things in there - TV, pool table, games consoles, could even select what sweets they wanted to be ordered in from the cash and carry. They were never punished for what they did.
Being from Liverpool this will always be fresh in people’s minds here. Things that happened to James even the press agreed not to print because they were that harrowing.
That poor baby boy.
There’s not many people from Liverpool who wouldn’t wish Venables and Thompson dead.

They would get those in prison as well.

 

[TJ90]

Sorry if these questions are obvious but, if they have their identity changed, can they still see their family? Or do they just see them under new names now? And wouldn’t that put them at risk of being exposed by aunts/uncles/cousins etc.

Also do they have a clean criminal record? Do they have to tell employers who they are when they run CRB checks? Or will nothing come up because they are new people? (If that’s the case, surely the can’t have jobs around children?)

There were strong rumours that Venables had a job in a Pizza Hut in the north west

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

I thought they were on life tariffs, so effectively could’ve stayed in prison forever unless they showed rehabilitation and that they were no longer a danger to the public. Obviously this was right for Thompson, venables has been recalled under his life tariff a few times for the crimes already mentioned

I really don’t understand why people think they shouldn’t have a new identify. What is the alternative?

Maybe having a pool table and a cash and carry sounds fun but the point of imprisonment is you have no freedom. And as young people, they had no one who loved them or anyone to show them any care or emotion. Can’t see how a pool table can make that ok

 

[Doratheexplorer]

I work with a woman and her sister was an officer on this case at the time. Said she had to take 6 months off afterwards it was that shocking the things she saw and still upsets her now when she talks about it.
I have an 18 month old and it pains me to even think what that boy went through. Something went seriously wrong with those two boys.

on a side note, if anyone’s after something to watch have a go at the victim on iplayer. A drama that’s very similar to this, it’s a great watch. I balled like a baby on the last episode.

 

[pixieshix]

I thought they were on life tariffs, so effectively could’ve stayed in prison forever unless they showed rehabilitation and that they were no longer a danger to the public. Obviously this was right for Thompson, venables has been recalled under his life tariff a few times for the crimes already mentioned

I really don’t understand why people think they shouldn’t have a new identify. What is the alternative?

Maybe having a pool table and a cash and carry sounds fun but the point of imprisonment is you have no freedom. And as young people, they had no one who loved them or anyone to show them any care or emotion. Can’t see how a pool table can make that ok

year ago I had the idea that they shouldn’t have the new identity’s etc. But now I can see the other side of it ,of people taking matters into their own hands . And again people still does this and falsely accuse innocent people of being them.

I think the thing that gets me is that they were taken to shopping centres , I understand it was part of the rehabilitation that they learn to handle money . But can see the anger in the choice of setting for that lesson. And that Venables went to watch a football game with his father.

 

[Edgewood]

I'm a college professor and in my lectures this sometimes come up for debate when we talk about the United Nations Conventions on the Rights of the Child, where is specifically mentions that children under the age of 18 cannot be subject to the death penalty.

Most of my students weren't even born when this happened, so I have to fill them in on the case and ask them what should have been done for Thompson and Venables, most agree that because they were 10, a lifetime in jail isn't the solution but neither is getting out at the age of 18.

I read that during their times in their group homes, Thompson's family regularly visited him every Sunday and they cooked meals together and although his family wasn't perfect, his mother was apparently always in touch and there for him.

An interesting idea that was brought up once, was having them have to work the rest of their lives to repay society, so cover the food and meals and have them work for free at a senior's residence or somewhere in an under-serviced area.

My heart breaks for Denise Fergus, she worries every day that they could be lurking about with their new identities.