James Bulger - sentencing

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I actually wrote a lot of this three years ago, on the 25th anniversary, but it still applies today.

I was 19 when it happened and living in the North West. I was actually getting ready to go out on a Friday night and a little boy's photograph kept coming up on the local news. I was struck by how much he looked like my brother, who wasn't much older than James at the time. I remember exactly where I was when I heard that his body was found on the Sunday, Valentine's Day.

I was absolutely obsessed about it. I talked about it all the time. I couldn't stop thinking about how much James had suffered, especially as rumours were rife, with being fairly local, about what had actually happened to him. It was almost like he belonged to the nation. Paul Britton described it in his book The Jigsaw Man as a melancholy fog that hung over the country and I really felt that.

Ralph & Denise Bulger (now Fergus) did a couple of interviews and the thing that stayed with me was that when they returned home to their flat, James' fingerprints were on their fireplace and she just couldn't bring herself to wipe them away. They also had a stillborn daughter, Kirsty, before James. It just felt beyond cruel what had happened to them.

I remember the trial and walking into the newsagents on the way to work and seeing the headline that his body had been cut in half by a train. I was literally rooted to the spot and couldn't believe what I was reading.

I followed the trial, although there was no live reporting on the internet back then, and I was very happy that they were convicted. And I wanted them hung.

I feel very differently now. And I'm embarrassed and ashamed that I ever felt that way about children.

I wrote a piece for my GCSE coursework in support of the death penalty and I never thought my view would change. I can honestly say I'd never met anyone who didn't agree with the death penalty until I joined Digital Spy. Now I live with a full on bleeding heart liberal. We had very different upbringings. He is more educated than me - I'm not stupid by any means but I'm from a very working class, Northern council estate whereas he's solidly middle class, went to university and is very liberal. He has never hammered away at me on supporting the death penalty but he asked me one question about it.....if you kill murderers, how does that make you better than them? And I still can't answer it.

You cannot kill children no matter what they have done. And you can't lock them away forever. I understand that now. But should they have served longer? Yes, absolutely. Eight years is quite simply not enough and in no small part why this case continues to enrage people and still make the headlines every other week. I believe Ralph & Denise would have been more accepting and less angry if they'd served longer. They also may have been able to find a small amount of peace, which I don't feel either of them have with the media keeping them riled up by approaching them for a sound bite every time something happens. I also cannot help but feel if they were able to put their points across in a less inflammatory way, Thompson & Veneables would have definitely served longer. She may deny it now but Denise Fergus wanted them dead.

But there has to be hope of rehabilitation for children. In the face of something so awful, so tragic, there just has to be hope. Thompson seems to have done better out of the two from the limited information that's available. And it's important to remember that the vast majority of what we think we know is just pure speculation. Venables is clearly still a problem. Ok, so he hasn't murdered anyone else (that we know of) but he has broken the terms of his life licence on numerous occasions now. How many more chances do you give him?

I've said this many times on here but I think the trial judge made a terrible, terrible mistake in naming them and I'm sure he severely regrets it now. I hope he does anyway. Because what did naming them actually achieve? Well, we got four photographs to look at and say "oh, aren't they evil". It has also cost millions of public money to protect them because of it. Interestingly, one of the junior prosecuting barristers involved in the case is now a judge and he oversaw the Angela Wrightson case in Hartlepool, who was murdered by two very vulnerable, very damaged young teenage girls. He chose not to name them and gave very detailed reasons why. I'm sure the ongoing fallout from the decision to name Thompson & Venables was a huge factor. The fact that rent a bleeps like Kelvin McKenzie, former editor of The Sun, and Facebook vigilantes fail to understand that it's down to people like them why lifetime anonymity is needed is certainly not lost on me.

But overall was justice done? No. Not for James. Not for his parents.
 
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I thought it was Venables that was the ring leader? Was it Robert who dealt the final blow to James?
I thought this to ? I saw the C5 documentary and also got the impression it was Venables idea ? It sounded that way when they spoke about Roberts shoe marks.
 
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I thought this to ? I saw the C5 documentary and also got the impression it was Venables idea ? It sounded that way when they spoke about Roberts shoe marks.
We'll never know. They both blamed each other during their police interviews as little kids in big trouble would do.
 
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The Judge will most likely have named them to act as a deterrent to any other child thinking about doing the same thing. When Will Cornick murdered Ann Maguire(Teacher) he was 15 and that's why the Judge named him. He got 20 years.
The Judge will have had sentencing guidelines and they have to sentence in accordance with them, that's the bottom line. They were so young, that's why they didn't get longer. They have to live with it though at the end of the day, who knows how its affected them? I personally think the parents have to take responsibility for bringing them up to do this.
 
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I’m not 100% certain, but I believe that because of this case, they lowered the age to 10 to be tried as an adult for very serious offences. So if they were tried now, they’d probably get much longer sentences
 
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Didn't get a long enough "sentence" at all, they began their life again once were freed, and then venebles reoffending and being let off lightly each time? That screams there are major problems with our justice system. What gets me is they didn't even go to a prison, basically a naughty kids home. Another kick in the gut for poor James's mum and family. So very sad, it's a case that will always stay with me x
 
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I’m not 100% certain, but I believe that because of this case, they lowered the age to 10 to be tried as an adult for very serious offences. So if they were tried now, they’d probably get much longer sentences
The sentencing starting point for murder committed by anyone under 18 now is 12 years. This can be increased or reduced depending on aggravating or mitigating factors. Their ages would still be a huge mitigating factor so I genuinely think their sentences wouldn't be that much more, if at all.
 
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Didn't get a long enough "sentence" at all, they began their life again once were freed, and then venebles reoffending and being let off lightly each time? That screams there are major problems with our justice system. What gets me is they didn't even go to a prison, basically a naughty kids home. Another kick in the gut for poor James's mum and family. So very sad, it's a case that will always stay with me x
If both had reoffended I might agree, but it worked for Thompson. Nothing is a one size fits all. Thompson turned his life around while in the home.
 
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I always think this when they give new identities...what if you met a man started dating him and it was Jon Venables you would never know and that in my eyes is unfair on the public.
 
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I always think this when they give new identities...what if you met a man started dating him and it was Jon Venables you would never know and that in my eyes is unfair on the public.
I could be wrong but I was under the impression that a on a life license (which I think they would both be on??), they have to report all of their relationships. Not sure if they do have to disclose to the person they're in a relationship with though.

I don't know why but I was always under the impression that it was Robert who was the ringleader and Venables was from a 'nice family' but easily led astray. I'm pretty sure Robert was described as being rotten to the core and it was insinuated that he would definitely offend again. It's why I was surprised that Venables was the one back in trouble again. I've also heard that Robert is in a same sex relationship.
 
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I read this morning that Venables has been back to prison a few times now for breaching his license and for possessing child abuse images. Apparently he has also revealed his identity to a friend on two separate occasions. It makes me angry that he just gets given a new identity and a new chance to start again every time. At this point he should be either kept in prison or not given a new identity.
They used to (albeit briefly) hand out IPP sentences which basically mean that there was no fixed release date. Criminals like Danny Gee from Liverpool got one and his offence was arguably much less than Venables! Especially as a repeat offender.

IPP sentences are deemed breach of human rights now though.
 
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If both had reoffended I might agree, but it worked for Thompson. Nothing is a one size fits all. Thompson turned his life around while in the home.
Ah right well the crime he did commit in my eyes should of made him be put behind bars for the rest of his life.
 
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I personally think the parents have to take responsibility for bringing them up to do this.
I agree with this, I’ve always wondered what happened to their parents, did they have to leave Merseyside & change their names or did they continue to live in the city?
I truly believe they should have been punished, from what I’ve read the way they brought those 2 boys up was neglectful all round.
 
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I agree with this, I’ve always wondered what happened to their parents, did they have to leave Merseyside & change their names or did they continue to live in the city?
I truly believe they should have been punished, from what I’ve read the way they brought those 2 boys up was neglectful all round.
I wondered about this too. Given the scenes outside the police station and court, I would’ve thought they would have had to have protection.
 
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I agree with this, I’ve always wondered what happened to their parents, did they have to leave Merseyside & change their names or did they continue to live in the city?
I truly believe they should have been punished, from what I’ve read the way they brought those 2 boys up was neglectful all round.
I think they must have been relocated, I honestly cant believe they stayed in Liverpool given the strength of feeling against those 2. Probably they will have put them in some other big city where they could blend in easily.
 
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Because they were so young. If they’d been left in prison for longer they would have definitely reoffended when they were released, both of them. They had to let them out because, in my opinion, they didn’t exactly know what they were doing - they were kids. That doesn’t make it right, of course, but the mere action of trying to put batteries inside him makes me think that they thought he was a broken toy and they were trying to make him work again. They didn’t get it.
They knew exactly what they were doing. They went out that day to take a child. They made a 2 year old walk more than a mile. Crying. They dropped huge rocks on his head from a great height. They did all.things unimaginable and worse. Even as a 3 year old you get a sense of what is right and what is wrong..no matter your upbringing.
 
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Sorry if these questions are obvious but, if they have their identity changed, can they still see their family? Or do they just see them under new names now? And wouldn’t that put them at risk of being exposed by aunts/uncles/cousins etc.

Also do they have a clean criminal record? Do they have to tell employers who they are when they run CRB checks? Or will nothing come up because they are new people? (If that’s the case, surely the can’t have jobs around children?)
 
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They knew exactly what they were doing. They went out that day to take a child. They made a 2 year old walk more than a mile. Crying. They dropped huge rocks on his head from a great height. They did all.things unimaginable and worse. Even as a 3 year old you get a sense of what is right and what is wrong..no matter your upbringing.
I agree. They were more than old enough to be able to differentiate between a toy and a human child. They weren't stupid. They made a plan and followed through with it.
 
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Isn't it to stop a sort of vigilante scenario?

The police or government or whoever changes their identity know that there is a risk of a member of public dealing their own justice once they have been released. But that's not how our justice system works. Everyone charged with a crime should have the right to be judged in a court of law and shouldn't be subject to the court of public opinion or an individual dealing out their own justice.

I'm not necessarily saying that they received the sentence they deserved for their crime as I don't think that's for me to say, but it's not up to members of the public to decide the punishment or that they "haven't been punished enough". Changing their identity mitigates that risk.
 
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