J. K. Rowling

[PinkBogeyBreath]

Men will not care about this issue until it is them alone with a woman in a room about to have sex and “she” pulls out “her” penis and expects him to play with it. And even then, there’s no danger to the man if he refuses. He can say no without much worry that he’s going to be beaten up, or forced into accepting the penis. He hasn’t been trained his entire life to be polite and put everyone else first like women do so he won’t be coerced into accepting the penis out of guilt or awkwardness or fear of what will happen if he says no. If he tells anyone after the fact, he won’t be called transphobic for not wanting to have sex with a penis. People will side with him. His career won’t be at risk if the owner of the penis tells people.

Now, if a woman says no to that penis person while she’s alone with him? Just imagine.

I don't want to make any comment on anyone's appearance but dayum that face tho

"Your dating preferences are discriminatory.'' Hmmmmm...
I know a hell of a lot of men who wouldn't want to date someone like Riley with a big ole Adam's apple and a moustache, but yet again when do you hear about men being given a hard time for not wanting to get with trans people (not that they should)? It is literally always women/lesbians who are given a hard time for not wanting to be with trans people.

Exactly. Lesbians are being erased by the trans agenda and it’s terrifying. These mtf don’t seem to realise it’s not just about the penis either. “Oh I’ll have surgery and then they can’t refuse!”* They miss the point that they have a lifetime of male socialisation that affects every aspect of who they are as a person. The irony being that it’s that male socialisation that gives them the confidence to take away women’s rights, ie the rights of the women they want to have sex with.

It’s all so bonkers.

*disclaimer: and that’s without opening the can of worms that is neovaginas

 

[Lanavalentine]

I’ll be honest, I’ve been put off JK in all of this, because I don’t think she’s chosen her words carefully. I’ve read the entire essay twice, and I appreciate that despite being a woman (cus, if that matters) and calling myself a feminist I probably have internalised misogyny, which is something to recognise in all of this.
The bathroom debate bothers me - there was a comment earlier in the thread about (not direct quote) “what does it matter how few men pretend to be women and attack women in a safe space, it’s still too many” - but you can say that of every single demographic. The tiniest percentage of people who “use” trans issues to get an advantage are the same tiniest percentage of people who are going to do bad things anyway. If a man wants to attack anyone I’m not sure he cares what the sign on the door says anyway?

I also agree that there is an issue with female safe spaces being taken away, and in a world where misogyny is rife as ever (just take a look at the most powerful man in the world) there needs to be more done about it to make women feel safe.


I don’t think JK is a TERF and I don’t like that we (all of us as a whole) throw terms around when we don’t like the point being made. Same goes for Karen (although let’s not pretend that’s a racial slur, neither is Gammon) - we are all far more intelligent than playground insults, and if we’re not it’s not a conversation we should be partaking in because it’s wide and difficult and complex

But denying trans women a space shouldn’t be that answer either - neither should calling trans people mentally ill as has been suggested in here and why I didn’t come in earlier.

The world seems to believe that trans kids are just shoved full of meds as soon as they say “I want to be a boy” which is not even remotely the case.
I just feel JK kicked off an argument at 11 at night (which suggests a lack of thought to me) about something that didn’t need to be argued. What was wrong with the term “people who menstruate”? It didn’t exclude anyone and it referred to everyone the article was about...

I appreciate your response and in many ways I can see where you’re coming from. Just want to address some of your points:

I think the point about a predatory male will attack anyway is a bit of a strawman. The issue with proposed self ID is that it will make it easier for predatory males to attack, and they’ll have a built-in get out clause if, for example, they’re caught in the women’s loos. In my mind, a similar analogy would be hens kept safely within a hen house, surrounded by wire - a particularly aggressive fox may try to get into the hen house anyway, and may succeed, but does that mean we’d remove the wire as it doesn’t always work?

I don’t think anyone is denying transpeople a space. Most gender critical women advocate for third spaces. It’s just that some women do not feel it’s fair to roll back their own safety to make room for others - it’s like being asked to put transwomen’s safety above our own, which is quire misogynistic if you ask me.

Re: trans kids, I don’t think the world believes that at all. There is anectdotal evidence of it sometimes happening, and there was a doctor who was shut down for supplying hormones illegally on the internet. Also, there has been whistleblowers at the Tavistock who have highlighted problems with the “affirm affirm affirm” approach. I think this is what alarms people and is where the problem lies. Puberty blockers can cause irreversible damage, yet many trans people declare them harmless. That is not ok.

Lastly, I think the issue with “people who menstruate” is that it is silencing a marginalized group - women. Many women are very vulnerable and rely on biological terms to describe themselves. I don’t think it’s fair for one marginalized group (trans) to enforce their issues on another (women), when women are still struggling to get the help and recognition they deserve with issues that affect biological women exclusively. From it taking seven years on average go diagnose endometriosis, because of patriarchal and misogynistic standards in western medicine, to girls dying in period huts in Nepal, women are affected by their biological sex the world over and taking the right to use the correct words to describe themselves to accommodate a much smaller group is simply not fair.

Many people of different races are recently complaining about being lumped together under the BAME term, as they have different experiences, and I think it’s a similar problem here. It’s very much like saying “non men”.

 

[Lanavalentine]

It’s the way some Transwomen shout down and verbally abuse anybody with a difference of opinion that scares me.

This is such a big problem on the left overall. There’s no nuance allowed anymore. Either you agree on everything, or you’re a fascist, a Nazi who deserves to be verbally and physically abused. Terrifying.

Back to JK Rowling, has anyone seen the guy on Twitter who took a quote from her essay and attributed it to Robert Galbraith, and transactivists liked it? Kind of proves that they didn’t read the essay in the first place! I see a lot of this, encouraging each other not to read things they might disagree with. Ridiculous - engaging with both sides is how you learn what you actually believe and agree with, and it’s also the best tool to refine and polish your own arguments!

 

[Vanillaco]

Rupert Grint is easily the best actor out of the three in my opinion.

Radciffe got the job because his mother was/is a casting director and EW definitely didnt get that part on merit. Even by the standards of stage school brats they were not good. They need to stfu. As does Eddie Redmayne. One of about 50 Brit posh boy old etonian actors who are where they are because they are old Etonian posh boys. Why do actors even think we care about their opinions? They are just doing a job like anyone else. Next time I'm in Tesco, I'll ask the cashier what she thinks and use her answer to justify my own opinion.

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

Why is Daniel Radcliffe apologising on her behalf as if she’s just some crazy old lady who doesn’t know what she’s saying. How patronising.

 

[Falkor]

That has nothing to do with transgender rights? also that happens regardless of gender and sexuality.

It would have prevented Katie Dolatowski being in the ladies toilets in the Morrisons in Kirkcaldy when, on two separate occasions, Katie filmed a 12-year-old girl over the cubicle wall and sexually assaulted a 10one-year-old girl while her father waited for her outside. Katie was convicted of voyeurism and sexual assault.

 

[PinkBogeyBreath]

These people utterly pathetic. I think the real problem is that most of them don't have a job or anything more important to take up their time so they just tweet rubbish all day to try and validate their sad little lives.


Yes i read that, utterly disgusting.

Gender disorders (or whatever the PC name is) used to very rare. Now we are told many children are confused about their identity and are being pandered to with hormone treatment. In my view this is totally wrong. That decision should be made when you are an adult. It's not wrong to hold this view.

It's like a new fucking fad. 10 or 20 years ago they would have all had eating disorders.

It’s absolutely insane. The other day my (between 6 and 10 years old, keeping it vague, sorry) daughter said to me she wanted to be a boy. It feels like nowadays I’m meant to say “oh, maybe you are a boy! Let’s get you to the doctors! Let’s get you a stereotypical boy haircut and stereotypical boy clothes! Change your name!” or I’d be accused of all sorts of stuff like ignoring her gender identity etc etc.

Meanwhile, because I’m sane, I asked why she felt that she wanted to be a boy and after a bit of probing, we had a discussion about how girls can do anything boys can do and chatted about sexism in an age appropriate way etc and she went happily on with her day. It’s terrifying to me that some children expressing similar thoughts to what my daughter did are shoved onto the trans conveyor belt instead.

 

[totallytaz]

It’s human intelligence going barmy. We have the intelligence to create new concepts for identities and so here we are. The animal kingdom don’t do this. I mean we have people identifying as cats or forest fairies etc now it’s getting out of hand.

As a child I was obsessed with Taz the Tasmanian Devil cartoon. Mum was always always buying my Taz clothes from the boys section, but you know what, it was no gruelling task for her to do so. It’s not like the shop assistants interrogated her about her choice nor was it a problem for me when I walked into school wearing it. This overthinking and overanalysing is coming from a nation where, I dare say, life is too easy for us. There are still countries where daily survival, making ends meet is paramount - they don’t have time to poke holes in every little thing someone says or think up new identity concepts.

 

[Basicbasic]

In absolute solidarity with jk. Our safeguards and identity are being eroded and we are being attacked for calling ourselves women. I've sent my kids school some questions regarding the compulsory rse curriculum and was almost too scared to ask whether the teaching around gender identity would conflict with the biology lessons. It's an absolute madness. Women are being arrested for saying women don't have a penis.

Trans gender ideology is nothing but homophobic, gender stereotypical misogyny.

 

[ShowMeYourFeline]

"BUT what about the cis men who WOULD use this as an opportunity to access a women's bathroom?"

Then that's a cis men problem, not a trans problem. That's a problem to do with men constantly raping women no matter the setting. Men will rape women in broad daylight. Men will rape women they're in committed relationships with. As a survivor, it sickens me when other women use rape as an excuse for their bigotry towards the entire trans community. Men have had absolutely NO issues or setbacks raping women so maybe take this issue up with men instead of blaming trans people.


You say they deserve respect but then say they're playing "make believe". You clearly do not care about their rights or giving them respect. Trans women want access to women's bathrooms because they are women who want to take a goddamn pee.

Bolded bit: and herein lies the problem. Transwomen are MEN and statistics show that they retain male pattern criminality. When not accounting for mental illness (as most of them are mentally ill), they are actually 2.3 times more likely than ordinary males to commit male-pattern crimes. They also retain male strength and most of them retain male genitalia. In other words they retain all of the reasons why females need to be protected from them in the first place.

As for “they just want to take a goddamn pee”, then why can’t they do it in male bathrooms? Don’t say for safety because according to you, toilets aren’t a magic shield against criminals. The truth is they want validation of their girlie feelings by invading the women’s toilets.

The even more detailed truth is that most “transwomen” these days are autogynephiles.

They are so narcissistic that they are sexually attracted to the idea of themselves as females. They get sexually aroused by everything to do with themselves being female, with the ultimate sexual arousal coming from other people “validating” their displays of femaleness.

By larping as women in public, they are forcing everyone who comes into contact with them to participate in their sexual fetish. Them demanding access to women’s toilets, hospital wards, changing rooms, and prisons is a sexual violation.

Due to the narcissistic nature of their fetish, when they are denied access, they experience it as a narcissistic injury. This is why they throw violent tantrums and make dishonest suicide threats.

 

[Lanavalentine]

I think JK’s essay explained everything very well. It even explained why she put out her tweet on Saturday.

She’s fantastic, and I found her essay to be very moving. I am surprised anyone could ignore the things she said in it, but I guess a lot of people against her aren’t actually reading it, as a lot of transactivists seem to be persuading people not to read it on Twitter.

I find that very childish. Personally I always read and engage with an oppositional argument as it helps me develop my own.

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

Why is everyone suddenly making ‘statements’ on what she said anyway? It’s all PR nonsense.

And did the likes of Eddie Redmayne and Daniel Radcliffe release ‘statements’ of support when #metoo was at it’s peak and women came out in their droves to talk about their sexual assault? What about BLM, have they involved themselves in that? Yet they Instantly jump at the chance to defend (Mostly white, let’s face it) men who think they are women, when they weren’t even under attack in the first place. The. Mind. Boggles.

 

[PinkBogeyBreath]

WAT

I would say you don’t want to know, but everyone needs to! When they make the neovagina, they make a skin canal inside the man using skin from their pubic area and penis. Some surgeons recommend laser hair removal first. Some don’t. These men end up with what is basically an open wound they have to dilate (insert dildo shaped things daily into it to help it keep its shape) with hair growing inside it. They get a build up of bacteria and hair and sweat. Doctors have described a “foul smell” that comes from them. Men have had hair balls and balls of god knows what filth fall out of these canals. Some of the men regularly bleed from the open wounds and wear sanitary towels claiming it’s their period.

And then there’s the neovaginas made with the parts of the colon and the side effects related to that. Bacteria, mucous, etc.

The external part of the neovagina can vary depending on who they use as a surgeon. Some of these men end up absolutely butchered. Non existent labia with a lump above it meant to be the “clitoris”. Labia that is clearly ballsack without the ball. Infections and pus. A lot of pain. And they aren’t allowed to talk about it because the trans agenda shuts them down. Reddit used to have a subreddit where they’d share images and links of these people who’d been brainwashed into thinking they’d have a genuine vagina post-surgery when they’d actually end up with an open wound and lots of pain.

Anyone who shares the negative stories are drowned out by the people who claim its lies or its normal or the person just had a bad surgeon. They prefer to talk about how theirs convinces everyone “even cis lesbians cant tell!” “Even my new gynae didn’t realise!”. They ignore the fact that those lesbians and doctors have to play along with their delusions or face being called transphobic.

Honestly the whole trans brainwashing is an absolute rabbit hole when you look into it. It’s crazy and I think it slightly fascinates me as to the extent everyone seems to be taking part in a mass brainwashing event.

 

[Lanavalentine]

I've just found an article of a Dr in Cardiff who identifies as a woman, hasn't had surgery and has a full beard!!!

If a cis woman had a full beard she would be subject to ridicule!!!

I get my face threaded. Cos of lockdown, I used a hair removal cream - burnt my face

Same! I have discovered these little facial razors, can get them online. You need them in your life!

And you’re so right about the fact a bearded woman is subject to ridicule - but when someone born male declares themselves female and retains a beard (and penis and testes) they are “stunning” and “brave”. It’s almost like they’re retaining their male privilege

 

[ShowMeYourFeline]

Biological sex isn't binary either. It's not xy or xx, there can be all sorts of combinations, xxy, xyy, x etc alll of which can result in a variety of sex characteristics,. So saying all those that menstruate are women is very ignorant

And reading back through the comments can people please stop saying gender dysphoria is a mental illness. It makes it sound as though a few pills and some counselling is all that is needed. It can be the cause of mental health issues

Just so you know, a lot of intersex people are horrified at being used as pawns to prop up transgenderist arguments.

Also, the vast, vast majority of people with “intersex” conditions are actually male or female, they just have genital or genetic abnormalities.

If you have a Y chromosome, you’re biologically male. End of story.

 

[Inforapenny]

It's only male entitlement and arrogance that would have someone demand women accept men who 'feel' they are women.
I'd never ever dream of shouting men down and saying they must accept F2M trans as men. And that's without the danger women who are forced into with potential trans women.....who are men.

So men are telling women to shut the fuck up and accept men in to their spaces. And sadly many women are so brain washed they are actually helping the misogyny and male oppression. It's beyond dystopian!

The whole trans women facing so much oppression, Domestic violence (which is male on male) discrimination is forever the narrative and constantly thrust into the public sphere because guess what it's a man's issue pushed by men!

If it were a female issue it would be buried or better still women would be shat on from a great height. This is clearly seen when women don't accept the misogynistic narrative and fight for justice....we are called bitches, TERFS , transphobic

Believe me men are NOT at the bottom of the pile in any way.

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

What about people born with them who have had hysterectomies? Does that then strip them of being a woman? Calling trans women men is disgusting. Implying women without wombs are not true women is so archaic. I can't wait for all of these old idiots gatekeeping a set of organs and trying to rule how other people feel to die out.

Of course they are still women they were literally born women it’s in their dna womb or not. Trans women how ever, will never be women. They can say they are, they can try and look like women if they like but it’s ingrained in their dna men cant become women, women can’t become men. Not sure what exactly is so disgusting about acknowledging this, it’s literally a biological fact. Hormones and surgery are cosmetic, it doesn’t change the fabric of your dna.

 

[creme.egg92]

I’m sick of everyone expecting women to put other people’s feelings above our own. I asked my NHS practice last year to guarantee me a woman to do my smear as I was raped years ago and find it all very traumatic. They wouldn’t do it, said it’s whoever is free on the day and if I get there and not happy I can book another appointment. I ended up paying to have it done privately where I could select the practitioner myself. Why do I have to pay to avoid extra trauma for something that is already extremely distressing to me to avoid hurting the feelings of some woke idiot? I’ve had enough of it all.

Thank god for JKR giving us a loud voice. I’m so angry at those who are trying to ‘cancel’ her over this, particularly women who should have empathy. Look at this job advert from Sheffield City Council, read it, digest it. Anybody who can’t see an issue (clue SELF IDENTIFYING) has no right to speak on the subject because they’re clearly not capable of thinking about the implications.

 

[Lucyxxxx]

If our body parts dont define our sex/gender why do they have the surgery? I'll probably be jumped on but I think wanting to mutilate your body to resemble the opposite sex is some sort of serious mental health issue.

 

[Vanillaco]

heard it before and it's fucked up. It's like being called racist if you're not attracted to a certain race, maybe you'll never be or maybe you just haven't found someone you were attracted to. Also yeah you almost never hear about FtM being men debates wtf.


I'm straight but I've been looked at funny for saying I'm not into Trans men

Owen Jones blocked anyone who asked him whether he would shag a trans man when he was talking about lesbians not wanting to sleep with trans women being trans phobic. Why is it ok for lesbians to be forced to have sex with a trans woman but not for him to have sex with a trans man? Are gay men proper gay but lesbians just faking? I'm straight but lesbians being erased is one of the many sinister aspects of the trans agenda. It is clear that far from wanting to be women, they hate women and think they can do being a woman better.