I am confused. I thought posters further up said that trans people don't have gender dysphoria? So, which is it? It does exist or doesn't?
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It's been established plenty of times on the thread that the community seems to have two opinions. One side thinks you need it, the other doesn't. Personally I think the side that doesn't is just misinformed/mislabeling dysphoria but that discussion has been had multiple times here.
I never said all trans people did or didn't... is that the only take you got from my comment? Not that calling transwomen 'men' is wrong?
The fact your comment got more likes that @kat.becs who said that they aren't men, but transwomen, is actually saddening to see.
But if a trans person didn’t experience dysphoria, would they have any motivation to change their appearance or physical selves? I assumed the dysphoria is the reason people dress as women/men, change pronouns and undergo treatment. If you had no dysphoria would you not be happy to continue to live with your male appearance?
Sorry, I know people have conflicting opinions just trying to get my head around the other side of the argument.
This is a blog post from a post op transsexual which I found interesting. I tried to copy and paste the blog link but the thumbnail showed graphic photos of the post op so I thought I'd better just copy and paste the text!
"I would like to take an opportunity to talk about reassignment surgery.
Those familiar with my blog will be well be aware of my thoughts on the transsing of children and the notion of changing sex so such thoughts are outside what I would like to talk about.
Instead I want to talk openly and honestly about reassignment surgery. Can I say from the outset I have no regrets about surgery whatsoever and I had an amazing surgeon who still supports me.
As a sufferer of sex dysmorphia I detested my male anatomy. It represented a part of me that I couldnt live with and caused significant damage to my mental health. I couldn’t bear to touch it or even look at it. Even with extensive psychological and psychiatric input I was simply unable to accept this as a part of me. That made me a suitable candidate for surgery.
Having gone through the surgery it was a difficult and painful process and it disturbs me deeply at how casually the modern ideology views the process. This is MAJOR SURGERY and recovery is long. Being mentally prepared was absolutely essential and I knew exactly what I was getting in to. Even as a mature adult this was extremely tough and the thoughts of putting any young person through this is horrific.
So, I would like to clear up a few key points….
No, this is not comparable to a natal vulva / tina. Not even close.
Its all so easy nowadays. Dont want a pen? Swap it for a tina. Snip,snip and job done. Hell never mind not wanting a pen do you fancy a change? Get yourself a tina.
Sorry to disappoint but the only way to have a tina is to be born with one. Surgery may make an artistic representation of one that yes, may at first glance be passable FOR SOME but its a very far cry from natures design. All the internal anatomy is missing and many external characteristics are too.
The lie that results of surgery are comparable to natal anatomy is necessary. Its part of the brainwashing that actually men and women arent that different so “swapping” to a different set of genitals is easy.
All too often we see people who claim to have had the surgery (however see below) talk about how fantastic the results are, how indistinguishable it is from the “real thing” and indeed I have seen instances of “trans” claim that the trans “version” is better. Yes, thats right, there are those who claim men can be better than women at having vaginas.
Most who have had this surgery havent.
So many claim to have had the surgery or be about to. Its a lie. For those who have had the surgery and experienced the long road to recovery it is blatantly obvious when we read of the so called surgery transition experiences of others.
When you talk about having sex for the first time a week after surgery? No you didnt.
At the end of the day there is no way to prove if someone has had the surgery or not. Never let your guard down because someone says they are post op.
I commonly come across two types of “trans” people:
The first is the proud pen owner who has no interest in surgery and is happy to gaslight you into believing that women can have penises. “It’s a lady pen” they say because “I’m a woman!”.
The second type is the “ally”; the one who comes alongside and says “You don’t mean to exclude me, I’m a woman just like you.”. Often they have a well told narrative that tugs on the heart strings. They talk about the surgery they had or are going to be having. In their own head they may or may not believe it but they talk about it often enough!
When I woke up after surgery I was still me. I was still a person born male, conditioned as male and benefitting from being male. I can tell you all sorts about a horrible childhood and my gender identity issues but so what? Having surgery isn’t a personality transplant. A narcissistic entitled misogynist will still be the same no matter what is between their legs. A cosmetic change, no matter how major, does not create a new person.
Judge me for being me, not against a perception linked to anatomy.
Why do we never see “during” pictures and so few after pictures….
Very interesting that the pictures we often see are very well healed surgeries and represent the very best case scenario, sometimes following revision surgery. On a couple of occassions I have known of those using intimate images of natal women to show the results of their “miracle surgery”. A before and after is all very well but it is all to easy to blindly ignore the process. We never hear of complications. We never hear of the pain, swelling, wound discharge, bleeding, smell….. There are many possible complications and I have yet to speak to a fellow post op transsexual who didnt have something go wrong.
For me I experienced several infections but also neoclitoral necrosis. The neoclitoris is created from the tip of the pen and is, as you can imagine, extremely sensitive. For 5 weeks I went through debridement; essentially a “sanding down” of the necrotic tissue done under no anaesthesia. I would come home, take a sedative and cry in bed. As surgery goes I was extremely lucky and had very, very few issues. Some of the complications are truly horrific and some go on to need further surgery.
I say this not for sympathy (and I must add I continue to recover well) but to reinforce my point earlier. This is MAJOR SURGERY, and surgery that has been done on children. Let that sink in.
Surgery is a lifetime committment
Once the testicles are removed a lifetime committment to medication and blood testing is made. The body is no longer capable of producing all the hormones it needs and these must be chemically delivered. This is not an exact science and three monthly blood testing is essential if not sooner. The body is very sensitive to fluctuations in hormone levels.
With these chemical hormones is risk.
An AGP may be aroused by the thought of having a “tina”. I wonder how they would view seeing themselves in a wheelchair after having had a stroke from feminising hormones?
These hormones for me treat a condition. Yes, they do work, and I’m not going to say they didn’t. As with any medication you weigh up risks and benefits and for me it was an easy decision. The benefits remain to this day but so too do the risks. It concerns me greatly however that for many the benefits are built on lies and when that happens all that is left is risk. You need only speak to a detransitioner to know that the benefits they were sold were just nonsense, the risks were downplayed and now, years later, they are damaged individuals. All risk, no benefit.
Why would you do this to yourself?
There is only one reason for anyone to have this surgery and it is simply this; to not have the surgery is worse.
I could not live with a pen.
When I look down now I dont see myself as a woman because I know I can never be one. What I feel is relief. I feel free to be non conforming and its almost like the surgery gave me permission to be myself. I hope you can understand that statement even though it doesnt necessarily make sense. Psychological issues seldom do make sense!
“No one would ever have surgery and still call themselves a man!”
I hear this statement on a daily basis. For some its said maliciously, with others it seems to be genuine confusion. I don’t call myself a man or identify as a man… I AM a man. I am not saying I want to be, far from it but truth is truth. Acceptance is key in mental health. Because I know I am a man I dont need to be seen as a woman or validated as such.
Final thought….
I’m going to do something here that I feel is necessary to get my message across and something many have expressed curiosity about. I am going to show a post surgery picture of my own. You will need to scroll to see it so if you dont want to, dont scroll! No, this is not me being perverse. Depending on the response I get I may ultimately delete these images but for now we’ll see how it goes.
The surgery I had was an orchiectomy (removal of the testicles), penectomy (removal of the pen) and vulvoplasty (creation of a neovulva). I do not have a neovagina. I saw no benefit in doing so when I have no interest in sex. That is not to say I am not capable of sexual pleasure but the thought of a pocket of skin jammed between my bladder and bowel that is non lubricated, non elastic and non cleaning just didn’t appeal. Bizzarely I have been accused of being a fetishist and a fake trans” for doing so which I find somewhat peculiar!
These pictures says more that I could communicate in words.
It shows the extent of the surgery. It shows what people have done to children.
Be horrified and disgusted. I want you to be. I want you to look at the image and say “What the hell is that?”. I want you to weigh up the raw reality of the picture against modern trans narrative. Is this really a “real” vulva? Does that make someone change sex?
I’m not here to tell anyone how to live their life. I applaud non conformity and very much consider myself gender critical. I want everyone to understand the reality of transition and surgery and to think long and hard before undertaken such a difficult journey, it is my sincere wish that changes in societal attitudes about gender will significantly reduce such surgeries in the future but for now they remain a necessary evil for a rare few."
"I would like to take an opportunity to talk about reassignment surgery.
Those familiar with my blog will be well be aware of my thoughts on the transsing of children and the notion of changing sex so such thoughts are outside what I would like to talk about.
Instead I want to talk openly and honestly about reassignment surgery. Can I say from the outset I have no regrets about surgery whatsoever and I had an amazing surgeon who still supports me.
As a sufferer of sex dysmorphia I detested my male anatomy. It represented a part of me that I couldnt live with and caused significant damage to my mental health. I couldn’t bear to touch it or even look at it. Even with extensive psychological and psychiatric input I was simply unable to accept this as a part of me. That made me a suitable candidate for surgery.
Having gone through the surgery it was a difficult and painful process and it disturbs me deeply at how casually the modern ideology views the process. This is MAJOR SURGERY and recovery is long. Being mentally prepared was absolutely essential and I knew exactly what I was getting in to. Even as a mature adult this was extremely tough and the thoughts of putting any young person through this is horrific.
So, I would like to clear up a few key points….
No, this is not comparable to a natal vulva / tina. Not even close.
Its all so easy nowadays. Dont want a pen? Swap it for a tina. Snip,snip and job done. Hell never mind not wanting a pen do you fancy a change? Get yourself a tina.
Sorry to disappoint but the only way to have a tina is to be born with one. Surgery may make an artistic representation of one that yes, may at first glance be passable FOR SOME but its a very far cry from natures design. All the internal anatomy is missing and many external characteristics are too.
The lie that results of surgery are comparable to natal anatomy is necessary. Its part of the brainwashing that actually men and women arent that different so “swapping” to a different set of genitals is easy.
All too often we see people who claim to have had the surgery (however see below) talk about how fantastic the results are, how indistinguishable it is from the “real thing” and indeed I have seen instances of “trans” claim that the trans “version” is better. Yes, thats right, there are those who claim men can be better than women at having vaginas.
Most who have had this surgery havent.
So many claim to have had the surgery or be about to. Its a lie. For those who have had the surgery and experienced the long road to recovery it is blatantly obvious when we read of the so called surgery transition experiences of others.
When you talk about having sex for the first time a week after surgery? No you didnt.
At the end of the day there is no way to prove if someone has had the surgery or not. Never let your guard down because someone says they are post op.
I commonly come across two types of “trans” people:
The first is the proud pen owner who has no interest in surgery and is happy to gaslight you into believing that women can have penises. “It’s a lady pen” they say because “I’m a woman!”.
The second type is the “ally”; the one who comes alongside and says “You don’t mean to exclude me, I’m a woman just like you.”. Often they have a well told narrative that tugs on the heart strings. They talk about the surgery they had or are going to be having. In their own head they may or may not believe it but they talk about it often enough!
When I woke up after surgery I was still me. I was still a person born male, conditioned as male and benefitting from being male. I can tell you all sorts about a horrible childhood and my gender identity issues but so what? Having surgery isn’t a personality transplant. A narcissistic entitled misogynist will still be the same no matter what is between their legs. A cosmetic change, no matter how major, does not create a new person.
Judge me for being me, not against a perception linked to anatomy.
Why do we never see “during” pictures and so few after pictures….
Very interesting that the pictures we often see are very well healed surgeries and represent the very best case scenario, sometimes following revision surgery. On a couple of occassions I have known of those using intimate images of natal women to show the results of their “miracle surgery”. A before and after is all very well but it is all to easy to blindly ignore the process. We never hear of complications. We never hear of the pain, swelling, wound discharge, bleeding, smell….. There are many possible complications and I have yet to speak to a fellow post op transsexual who didnt have something go wrong.
For me I experienced several infections but also neoclitoral necrosis. The neoclitoris is created from the tip of the pen and is, as you can imagine, extremely sensitive. For 5 weeks I went through debridement; essentially a “sanding down” of the necrotic tissue done under no anaesthesia. I would come home, take a sedative and cry in bed. As surgery goes I was extremely lucky and had very, very few issues. Some of the complications are truly horrific and some go on to need further surgery.
I say this not for sympathy (and I must add I continue to recover well) but to reinforce my point earlier. This is MAJOR SURGERY, and surgery that has been done on children. Let that sink in.
Surgery is a lifetime committment
Once the testicles are removed a lifetime committment to medication and blood testing is made. The body is no longer capable of producing all the hormones it needs and these must be chemically delivered. This is not an exact science and three monthly blood testing is essential if not sooner. The body is very sensitive to fluctuations in hormone levels.
With these chemical hormones is risk.
An AGP may be aroused by the thought of having a “tina”. I wonder how they would view seeing themselves in a wheelchair after having had a stroke from feminising hormones?
These hormones for me treat a condition. Yes, they do work, and I’m not going to say they didn’t. As with any medication you weigh up risks and benefits and for me it was an easy decision. The benefits remain to this day but so too do the risks. It concerns me greatly however that for many the benefits are built on lies and when that happens all that is left is risk. You need only speak to a detransitioner to know that the benefits they were sold were just nonsense, the risks were downplayed and now, years later, they are damaged individuals. All risk, no benefit.
Why would you do this to yourself?
There is only one reason for anyone to have this surgery and it is simply this; to not have the surgery is worse.
I could not live with a pen.
When I look down now I dont see myself as a woman because I know I can never be one. What I feel is relief. I feel free to be non conforming and its almost like the surgery gave me permission to be myself. I hope you can understand that statement even though it doesnt necessarily make sense. Psychological issues seldom do make sense!
“No one would ever have surgery and still call themselves a man!”
I hear this statement on a daily basis. For some its said maliciously, with others it seems to be genuine confusion. I don’t call myself a man or identify as a man… I AM a man. I am not saying I want to be, far from it but truth is truth. Acceptance is key in mental health. Because I know I am a man I dont need to be seen as a woman or validated as such.
Final thought….
I’m going to do something here that I feel is necessary to get my message across and something many have expressed curiosity about. I am going to show a post surgery picture of my own. You will need to scroll to see it so if you dont want to, dont scroll! No, this is not me being perverse. Depending on the response I get I may ultimately delete these images but for now we’ll see how it goes.
The surgery I had was an orchiectomy (removal of the testicles), penectomy (removal of the pen) and vulvoplasty (creation of a neovulva). I do not have a neovagina. I saw no benefit in doing so when I have no interest in sex. That is not to say I am not capable of sexual pleasure but the thought of a pocket of skin jammed between my bladder and bowel that is non lubricated, non elastic and non cleaning just didn’t appeal. Bizzarely I have been accused of being a fetishist and a fake trans” for doing so which I find somewhat peculiar!
These pictures says more that I could communicate in words.
It shows the extent of the surgery. It shows what people have done to children.
Be horrified and disgusted. I want you to be. I want you to look at the image and say “What the hell is that?”. I want you to weigh up the raw reality of the picture against modern trans narrative. Is this really a “real” vulva? Does that make someone change sex?
I’m not here to tell anyone how to live their life. I applaud non conformity and very much consider myself gender critical. I want everyone to understand the reality of transition and surgery and to think long and hard before undertaken such a difficult journey, it is my sincere wish that changes in societal attitudes about gender will significantly reduce such surgeries in the future but for now they remain a necessary evil for a rare few."
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Honestly, I don't understand that side of the community either. They seem to think they don't experience dysphoria, at least of their body - but if they feel the need to transition then I think they must experience it at least on some level, but are just mislabeling it as normal discomfort. I'm not sure on it, to be honest. I have no doubt that my son is trans due to his dysphoria but he knows trans guys who don't really have it but still claim to know that they aren't their assigned sex and feel a 'discomfort' in being identified as their assigned sex and want to transition and are much happier now they have. But still don't really have issues with their body. Sounds more non-binary to me, but idk.
I just think they're possibly misunderstanding the definition but
yeah I agree, surely any discomfort with the gender you were born with or a feeling of “knowing” you are the opposite sex must be dysphoria - what else could it be?Honestly, I don't understand that side of the community either. They seem to think they don't experience dysphoria, at least of their body - but if they feel the need to transition then I think they must experience it at least on some level, but are just mislabeling it as normal discomfort. I'm not sure on it, to be honest. I have no doubt that my son is trans due to his dysphoria but he knows trans guys who don't really have it but still claim to know that they aren't their assigned sex and feel a 'discomfort' in being identified as their assigned sex and want to transition and are much happier now they have.
I just think they're possibly misunderstanding the definition but
Lol I wasn't gonna say it but ...
I posted about this term yesterday. Here it is again
There are people who are trans and open about not having dysphoria
Kat.Becs I don't think it's a case of people having it and simply misclassifying it. Based on what was said in the blog post I shared, it sounds like you can't not know you have it
There are people who are trans and open about not having dysphoria
Kat.Becs I don't think it's a case of people having it and simply misclassifying it. Based on what was said in the blog post I shared, it sounds like you can't not know you have it
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It's not a concept I understand. I'm not dismissing it, but I don't understand it. But I also haven't done much reading into that side of the community either.
My son's friend who says he doesn't experience dysphoria is 'very trans' (even though that's definitely not the right way to put it
)and I wouldn't doubt he is, and he doesn't doubt he is. He's a lot more... eccentric? In terms of his gender identity though. Like he doesn't really feel the need to 'prove' himself as a male like my son does who will only wear boys clothes because a) that's what he likes to wear, and b) because it's what 'boys' wear and that's how he wants to be seen.When did I Say there ISN'T people trans people who say that?
There was a video posted (that I posted myself) even before you posted that image which spoke about the side of the trans community who claim you don't need dysphoria to be trans. You're acting like I'm denying it when I never have done.
who cares if there's trans people who say they don't have dysphoria? It doesnt mean that they're all pervs or men trying to get into women's places.
It’s pretty disheartening.
i need to see the pictures
Oh I like the Lonely Trans sexual.
There is a sadness in her posts though - she says that instead of making it better and easier for he to live her life, today's 'transgender' people (as opposed to old school transsexuals, who want to change sex) are actually making things a lot harder in the day to day.
@kat.becs personal question, absolutely fine if you dont want to/cant answer - Why does your son use the word 'transgender' instead of 'transsexual', if he wants to change sex? Is it just a modern/old language thing, or does is his issue with his gender not his sex?
There is a sadness in her posts though - she says that instead of making it better and easier for he to live her life, today's 'transgender' people (as opposed to old school transsexuals, who want to change sex) are actually making things a lot harder in the day to day.
@kat.becs personal question, absolutely fine if you dont want to/cant answer - Why does your son use the word 'transgender' instead of 'transsexual', if he wants to change sex? Is it just a modern/old language thing, or does is his issue with his gender not his sex?
OH wow. I have never realised there is a difference between transgender and transsexual??
Not sure to be honest. I don't think there's a difference so I'd assume it's just a language thing. I think transgender is a more umbrella term and transexual comes under it but I'm not sure. He's just always used transgender, I don't see many people using transsexual at all, apart from older trans people which definitely makes me think it's just changed with time.
I can't imagine how much that surgery must have hurt. Those pictures are very shocking. The thought that confused, inexperienced children are deemed as OK to have this done is scandalous. My eldest niece turned 17 a month ago and has a female friend the same age who wants to become a boy. At the age of 17 I didn't even know what sort of career I wanted to have, let alone anything more serious. I reckon future historians will look back at these times and be as incredulous about vulnerable children being given transgender treatments as we are that mental patients used to be locked up and put on public display in Victorian times.-
I mean my son is 16 and very well knows he is a trans boy. It's not really 'wants to become a boy'. At that age they definitely can know. Just as we know we are women and knew we were girls at that age.
It is to do with the difference between sex and gender.
Sex is easy to define - its whether you are born bodily female or male (not how you identify)
Gender is disputed, some people say it is social roles forced on men and women (like women are delicate, caring and men are unemotional and strong etc) . Some people say they dont have a gender.
Gender critical feminists are critical of all gender roles forced on their respective sexes and think that gender roles and norms are harmful to both men and women.
Transsexuals say they want to be the other sex - as in change bodies, transgender people want to change gender.
Obviously, as gender is difficult to define some transgender people say they don't need to change anything about their body because its their internal gender they are changing - look at someone like Danielle Muscato or Gregor Murray ( https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/08/13/scotlands-transgender-politician-gregor-murray-isolating/) who are born male and say they are women, but have not made any attempt to assimilate.
FYI I do not think these people are women.
confusing the matter further is the fact that some people/orgs use the word gender when they mean sex.
There's also the age difference of the terms - transsexual is far more likely to be used by someone of the older generation like Buck Angel (a transsexual former porn star). Transgender is more likely to be used by younger people.
Hope this clears some stuff up.
And also at least on the NHS from what we've been told to get any kind of reassignment surgery you have to be at least 18, have been on testosterone for at least 6 months (which isn't usually given until they're 18 anyway), and they have to have been socially transitioned for at least a year comfortably for them to even consider surgery. So they're most commonly AT LEAST 19 before they can get any surgery which is what we've been told to look at. I don't know what it is for private but I imagine not much different.
And they would've gone through gender clinics, seen psychiatrists, therapists etc. It's not a one visit to your GP and there you go. I wish the process was a little easier for the sake of people like my son who are extremely distressed by their bodies every day but it's just not as simple as people seem to conclude.
And they would've gone through gender clinics, seen psychiatrists, therapists etc. It's not a one visit to your GP and there you go. I wish the process was a little easier for the sake of people like my son who are extremely distressed by their bodies every day but it's just not as simple as people seem to conclude.
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