I’ve spoken about this before here - I’m bi and I’ve been to loads of gay clubs (where it’s anyone from LGBT plus straight people who don’t cause problems ) and lesbian bars where the main clientele is women. This can happen because lesbians can be transphobic in the same way a woman can have internalised misogyny- just because you are a member of the alphabet mafia doesn’t mean who are 100% accepting of everyone. However if anyone starts causing such a ruckus that they throw something at another person, they would be kicked out the bar. So part of me thinks this story is missing something or exaggerated slightly because it would be very unlikely that the whole club was transphobic and that if this group of women did start causing trouble, other people would intervene and call them out and get them removed. A big part of gay clubs is the openness of them - they accept anyone as long as they are respectful.
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I also thought the story was lacking in detail as to what actually led to a pocket mirror being thrown. I wonder if the poster had gone in in a defensive manner that set the others off or something.
this is a really interesting parallel I had never considered it before but I totally agree
Another example of women being vilified is Roxanne Pallett, who lied about being physically hurt by a male housemate in Big Brother.
What she did was very wrong. But she is treated worse for falsely claiming that a man attacked her, then men are treated for actually attacking women. They say Roxanne would have happily ruined his life, but male attackers who actually ruin women's lives are given excuse after excuse and their victims branded as liars.
I also think the reason Roxanne got so much vilification is because she is a real-life example of what society likes to think is common: women lying for attention to get innocent men in trouble.
That's a very good point, actually.
Completely agree. Perhaps I'm in the minority here but I think she's was unwell and ,yes, spoke out of term but don't think it was meant to be manipulative. I could be wrong, maybe she knew what she was up to but even still it was totally out of proportion.
Same with Janet Jackson and nip gate.
What it may have been both her and Timberlakes decision her career was lost and his went from strength to strength.
His pathetic apology years later is not an apology it's his publicists trying damage limitation
Also makes my skin crawl when the term ' white male privilege' is used. It's a buzz term and the publicist and Timberlake don't actually give two shits
Oh god my typos
the rage in me is making me lose focus
Hilaria was villified for lying and making up stories.
I would love to check with a biologist.....
Is the only scientific difference between the male and female sex, the genitals?
Because I thought there were proven differences within the brain? and things like hormonal things like hypo and hyper thyroidism? If sex is just about sex organs, why do so many women have thyroid issues.. when men dont?
Meet the neuroscientist shattering the myth of the gendered brain
Why asking whether your brain is male or female is the wrong question
There is not much evidence of sexed brains. This isn't popular with trans people because a lot if them talk about having a girl brain in a boy body.
Yep like blokes that put on a dress and say they're women. The biggest lie there is
There is definitely a big part of this story the author has purposely omitted.
My guess would be that the OP is a very obvious bloke in a bad wig and has gotten touchy feely on the dance floor with women who won't take his tit and are willing to defend themselves and each other.
For what it's worth, the only issues I've experienced in gay bars as a feminine lesbian are from groups of straight men where I've been sexually assaulted numerous times when trying to squeeze through a crowded dance floor.
I'm on your side. I don't want to share a toilet with a man. I want it to be breast feeding not chest feeding but I think there are far better arguments than comparing the havoc they are trying to wreak on women to a woman who fancied being a little bit spanish.
I think pretending to be a certain nationality- as opposed to having an interest in the culture- is cultural appropriation and is comparable to this debate
If Hilaria was getting prizes and jobs for Latina women the same way we see with men taking womens prizes, jobs, etc, then it takes attention away from actual Latina women
If Hilaria was getting prizes and jobs for Latina women the same way we see with men taking womens prizes, jobs, etc, then it takes attention away from actual Latina women
Really? I think that's an excellent argument. Nobody would consider it acceptable if I as a white woman decided to 'identify' as a black person and started entering competitions for black people, winning awards designed to uplift black people in society, go to spaces designed for black communities. So what's the difference with women and why in the case of women are we meant to think it's okay?
It's a living example that most people have witnessed on the internet.
I don't think we should make the argument more complicated.
Women is vilified for appropriating a different culture
Men are praised for appropriating a different sex.
Well surely fancying being 'a little bit spanish' is the same as a 'little bit female'?
The example I've given highlights the inequality and the absolutely ridiculous nature of men being allowed to say they are women.
I posted this on this thread regarding Hilaria back in December in response to a poster who said that there was no connection:
"There is a connection especially with the modern day version of trans where the definition has broadened to include cross dressers. A cross dresser can now call themselves trans and be seen as a woman in the eyes of the law. The new version of trans appropriates womanhood. I don't see why one is ok but the other isn't.
The best analogy I can think of is this: a trans person who accepts their biological reality but wants to live is a woman is akin to someone taking an interest in a culture, learning their language, customs, etc, but still not denying where they're from and not pretending they are Spanish inside because of 'feelings'.
Whereas someone who is appropriating will deny all reality, will pretend they are the exact same as people who are born Spanish, will scream 'bigot' at anyone who says otherwise.
To be clear, I have no issue with trans people who want to live a certain way but who are also open and honest about their reality. Those people are brave and to be applauded.
It's the ones who try to appropriate that cause harm"
"There is a connection especially with the modern day version of trans where the definition has broadened to include cross dressers. A cross dresser can now call themselves trans and be seen as a woman in the eyes of the law. The new version of trans appropriates womanhood. I don't see why one is ok but the other isn't.
The best analogy I can think of is this: a trans person who accepts their biological reality but wants to live is a woman is akin to someone taking an interest in a culture, learning their language, customs, etc, but still not denying where they're from and not pretending they are Spanish inside because of 'feelings'.
Whereas someone who is appropriating will deny all reality, will pretend they are the exact same as people who are born Spanish, will scream 'bigot' at anyone who says otherwise.
To be clear, I have no issue with trans people who want to live a certain way but who are also open and honest about their reality. Those people are brave and to be applauded.
It's the ones who try to appropriate that cause harm"
yeah I agree, I am female and my bf wants everything gender neatral and doesn't get the issue, we have had numerous arguments about it and he, as a 6 foot something man, finds it hard to understand how threatened I can often feel in the presence of men. It is really enfuriating tbh
No I do get that but for me, and I was looking at it from a purely selfish point of view in that I'd be more wound up and inflamed by a man encroaching on my rights as female than someone appropriating my culture. Someone appropriating another culture is isn't going to impact on my life where as men being praised for appropriating a different sex and forcing us to accept their word salad is more frightening to me. I didn't mean to sound like I was belittling your words and sorry if my comment came across that way, it wasn't my intention.
Exactly 
I think we're all in agreement it's bonkers isn't it
Any one see the (sad sap) Kellie Maloney bemoan about mumsnet on GMTV a few weeks back. I mean I'm not a fan but they were complaining that the woman's rights forum was anti trans and and 'echo chamber'
It really infuriated me. Again a man unhappy that women are discussing issues that directly effect them as being an 'echo chamber' of abuse.
When will men realise that women have a right to voice their concerns, discuss the issues with other women and have a place where it is only for women.
He was basically throwing a wobbly because women were making sensible statements about wanting safe, women only spaces.
I find men who want this kinda thing actually have the most defined roles of what a man and woman should do.
Oh yep, I get your point. Sadly an example such as a person pretending to be another culture is really only how the masses will understand that men playing at being women is inappropriate and holds double standards.
I think we're all in agreement it's bonkers isn't it
Any one see the (sad sap) Kellie Maloney bemoan about mumsnet on GMTV a few weeks back. I mean I'm not a fan but they were complaining that the woman's rights forum was anti trans and and 'echo chamber'
It really infuriated me. Again a man unhappy that women are discussing issues that directly effect them as being an 'echo chamber' of abuse.
When will men realise that women have a right to voice their concerns, discuss the issues with other women and have a place where it is only for women.
He was basically throwing a wobbly because women were making sensible statements about wanting safe, women only spaces.
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yeah I agree, my bf is not that bad (he cleans and I don't lol), but in so many things he just really cannot understand how it is to be a woman no matter how much I explainExactly
I find men who want this kinda thing actually have the most defined roles of what a man and woman should do.
Oh yep, I get your point. Sadly an example such as a person pretending to be another culture is really only how the masses will understand that men playing at being women is inappropriate and holds double standards.
I think we're all in agreement it's bonkers isn't it
Any one see the (sad sap) Kellie Maloney bemoan about mumsnet on GMTV a few weeks back. I mean I'm not a fan but they were complaining that the woman's rights forum was anti trans and and 'echo chamber'
It really infuriated me. Again a man unhappy that women are discussing issues that directly effect them as being an 'echo chamber' of abuse.
When will men realise that women have a right to voice their concerns, discuss the issues with other women and have a place where it is only for women.
He was basically throwing a wobbly because women were making sensible statements about wanting safe, women only spaces.
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