Gender Discussions #2

[Aquamarina]

Yes, I did just this afternoon and I thought Abigail Shrier was great. She spoke honestly and openly about her research and her concern about the sudden rise of transgenderism in young girls. It’s vitally important that people understand how social contagion and social media are both contributing to the sudden rise of ROGD (Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria) in pubescent girls.
There is also an awful lot of online grooming of children done by trans activists, which I find very sinister. There is a real push by these TRAs to keep all of this grooming secret from the children’s parents, which is extremely concerning. Shrier also talks about this on the JRE.

It’s absolutely pathetic that the trans activists tried to skew her research findings by flooding her questionnaire with answers to suit their own agenda. I highly recommend listening to this particular episode of the JRE.

 

[Zenchick101]

I think genuine trans women (like Laverne Cox’s character in OITNB) shouldn’t be housed with male prisoners. They wouldn’t be safe. LC’s character didn’t have a penis so I suppose she posed less of a risk to female prisoners, considering she passes well as a woman and wasn’t able to use her penis as a weapon. But if it’s an absolute that trans women like her cannot be housed with female prisoners then where should they be? Solitary confinement is awful, and I suppose they could be under house arrest and tagged, depending on the crimes they committed (or didn’t, or have harsh sentences because the justice system is fucked).

Men like Yaniv and Muscato though? I’d house them with male prisoners. I believe they’re just blokes with a fetish and they are a danger to women and children.

I personally think trans men would be better off with female prisoners because a female body is a female body for male prisoners, especially if the likes of Yaniv and Muscato are amongst the male prisoners.

I suppose genuine trans women could be shipped off to a prison that has a trans women wing, which I doubt would be available in every prison because despite how widespread transgenderism seems to be, they’re still a small population. And because I hope that it’s just a dangerous trend/fad, this won’t last too long. Therefore it wouldn’t be economical to accommodate transgendered people everywhere.

Blanchard’s transsexualism typology is really interesting. I believe that I’m not transphobic, and I don’t want to be, I just don’t trust men who seem to be autogynephiles, especially if they demand access to women only spaces, whereas I genuinely support actual trans women who want to be able to live their lives authentically and peacefully without infringing the safe spaces and rights of women and children.

It’s absolutely fucked that I can’t say this stuff on Twitter because I might get ripped to shreds and get all sorts of abuse and insults. I’m not even being inflammatory and I want to help find a solution that benefits everyone. Maybe I’m being harsh about men who have a fetish for being women, like — people have kinks and tit, good for ya, I don’t even care lol but leave that tit away from women and children. It’s no longer a kink (where safety and consent are absolutely vital for everyone involved), it’s predatory and it’s using and hiding behind trans activism and people with good intentions to insist that you’re a trans woman who just wants to live. duck no.

I’m really sorry for this essay, I just have a lot of feelings.

I absolutely get where you're coming from, but at the same time what stands out from your post is that women's spaces have to become a safe space for everyone. Did Lavern Cox's character not have a penis anymore? I can't remember but what would be a good start would be mandating physical changes such as that for every male criminal who wants to suddenly self identify as women. Them being put in no changes necessary is ridiculous and has proven to be absolutely dangerous. Violent sex offenders have done far more to have easier access to victims then just signing a few pieces of paper, the Golden State Killer was finally sentenced to life in prison yesterday, in California. This monster would jump at the chance to get access to women, it'd be a dream come true.

It might not be fair, but it has to go both ways. If we're supposed to house tws with women then tms belong with men, on one hand theirs the argument that tws are women and should be housed with people of the same gender and for their safety fine. But so Tms should not be housed with their same gender? I'd think a seperate wing should perhaps be allocated to them but from what I've seen they don't want that either.
Then if all trans people are housed with women for safety reasons, what about frail men/non-violent offenders housed with the most sinister criminals, does their safety not matter? should we house them with women too?

I understand what you're saying, but what you're proposing wouldn't be doable. At minimum they should have SRS before being housed with women, this would improve female inmate safety in my book. I mean imagine it from the perspective of I think 81,000 male inmates? being housed with women by just having to pretend you're one? kid in a candy store material here. Men often come out of prison saying they missed sex with women, had sex with men because nothing else was available.

 

[rosemarina]

what about frail men/non-violent offenders housed with the most sinister criminals, does their safety not matter? should we house them with women too?

You’ve nailed it with this. It amounts to “throw them in with the weaker ones”.

 

[barmj]

I absolutely get where you're coming from, but at the same time what stands out from your post is that women's spaces have to become a safe space for everyone. Did Lavern Cox's character not have a penis anymore? I can't remember but what would be a good start would be mandating physical changes such as that for every male criminal who wants to suddenly self identify as women. Them being put in no changes necessary is ridiculous and has proven to be absolutely dangerous. Violent sex offenders have done far more to have easier access to victims then just signing a few pieces of paper, the Golden State Killer was finally sentenced to life in prison yesterday, in California. This monster would jump at the chance to get access to women, it'd be a dream come true.

It might not be fair, but it has to go both ways. If we're supposed to house tws with women then tms belong with men, on one hand theirs the argument that tws are women and should be housed with people of the same gender and for their safety fine. But so Tms should not be housed with their same gender? I'd think a seperate wing should perhaps be allocated to them but from what I've seen they don't want that either.
Then if all trans people are housed with women for safety reasons, what about frail men/non-violent offenders housed with the most sinister criminals, does their safety not matter? should we house them with women too?

I understand what you're saying, but what you're proposing wouldn't be doable. At minimum they should have SRS before being housed with women, this would improve female inmate safety in my book. I mean imagine it from the perspective of I think 81,000 male inmates? being housed with women by just having to pretend you're one? kid in a candy store material here. Men often come out of prison saying they missed sex with women, had sex with men because nothing else was available.

Yeah, I meant a separate wing for trans women in a male prison, not female prison. I think if a bio man is genuinely trans, not an autogynephile, they’d understand why they wouldn’t be welcome in a female prison and they wouldn’t demand to be housed with women. I mean, I would hope they’d be rational like that? But it depends on why they are being sent to prison, I think? Some criminals aren’t rational at all lol

IIRC, Sophia (Laverne Cox’s character) was in prison for credit card fraud, I think she had a harsh sentence (compared to white men committing the same crime) because she is black, and she got rid of her penis when she transitioned (before her prison days). So I’m like, I wouldn’t want her to be in a male prison, it’d be dangerous for her. I remember one of the prison guards in the FEMALE PRISON saying he fancied a go on Sophia, see what her “designer” vagina feels like. Many male prisoners would have the same attitude tbh.

If it’s just a man who claims to be a woman, without transitioning, no effort to pass, then no. Don’t put him in a female prison. But I can imagine the public outcry if that happened. They’d demand to have him housed with vulnerable female prisoners, and that is just bullshit. Maybe I should have worded my post better but no, I don’t think women only spaces should be open for everyone.

 

[Zenchick101]

Yeah, I meant a separate wing for trans women in a male prison, not female prison. I think if a bio man is genuinely trans, not an autogynephile, they’d understand why they wouldn’t be welcome in a female prison and they wouldn’t demand to be housed with women. I mean, I would hope they’d be rational like that? But it depends on why they are being sent to prison, I think? Some criminals aren’t rational at all lol

IIRC, Sophia (Laverne Cox’s character) was in prison for credit card fraud, I think she had a harsh sentence (compared to white men committing the same crime) because she is black, and she got rid of her penis when she transitioned (before her prison days). So I’m like, I wouldn’t want her to be in a male prison, it’d be dangerous for her. I remember one of the prison guards in the FEMALE PRISON saying he fancied a go on Sophia, see what her “designer” vagina feels like. Many male prisoners would have the same attitude tbh.

If it’s just a man who claims to be a woman, without transitioning, no effort to pass, then no. Don’t put him in a female prison. But I can imagine the public outcry if that happened. They’d demand to have him housed with vulnerable female prisoners, and that is just bullshit. Maybe I should have worded my post better but no, I don’t think women only spaces should be open for everyone.

I think the best compromise would be a separate wing in each prison for them, men would absolutely wanna have a go at the "designer vagina" of tws. Yeah it's really complicated but really separate wings would keep both types of trans people safe(wether they would use sex or their gender as a qualifier), and keep female inmates safe. See I think that would work and would be equal treatment on both sides. That could create other problems but it would solve the safety issue.

Yeah, I meant a separate wing for trans women in a male prison, not female prison. I think if a bio man is genuinely trans, not an autogynephile, they’d understand why they wouldn’t be welcome in a female prison and they wouldn’t demand to be housed with women. I mean, I would hope they’d be rational like that? But it depends on why they are being sent to prison, I think? Some criminals aren’t rational at all lol

IIRC, Sophia (Laverne Cox’s character) was in prison for credit card fraud, I think she had a harsh sentence (compared to white men committing the same crime) because she is black, and she got rid of her penis when she transitioned (before her prison days). So I’m like, I wouldn’t want her to be in a male prison, it’d be dangerous for her. I remember one of the prison guards in the FEMALE PRISON saying he fancied a go on Sophia, see what her “designer” vagina feels like. Many male prisoners would have the same attitude tbh.

If it’s just a man who claims to be a woman, without transitioning, no effort to pass, then no. Don’t put him in a female prison. But I can imagine the public outcry if that happened. They’d demand to have him housed with vulnerable female prisoners, and that is just bullshit. Maybe I should have worded my post better but no, I don’t think women only spaces should be open for everyone.

The legal prison system should only be based on cold logic, otherwise you have the sociopaths and psychopaths manipulating people to get their way. Let's remember Ted Bundy, serial rapist, murderer and sadistic torturer of women. So charming, so handsome, so accomplished, so white, even during his trial people had trouble believing he was capable of all that.

 

[Norbs]

I’m still pretty left wing despite this one issue. I refuse to believe that being gender critical suddenly moves me all the way to the (often far) right wing according to the TRA’s. It’s just not as black and white as that.

But in their eyes there are infinite genders but only two political standpoints; theirs and far right.

 

[Zenchick101]

But in their eyes there are infinite genders but only two political standpoints; theirs and far right.

and sex is a spectrum, funny how all the PHD accredited researchers have never found evidence of that

Also William Shatner has been harrassed for over 3 weeks and isn't backing down and I'm living for it.

 

[Falkor]

I'm very glad that a lot of rugby players have waded in on Twitter after Stonewall's recent tweet asking rugby clubs to stand with them against World Rugby's 'exclusionary' ruling.

No one is stopping trans people from playing rugby, they're just being asked to play on the team that matches their biological sex for safety reasons. But apparently not hurting someone's feelings is more important than preventing life-changing injuries.

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

I am surprised Stonewall are running with this world rugby thing. Sports is probably the only thing where people pretty much unanimously see the issues at hand when it comes to trans women competing with women and wanting to be treated ‘as women’. World Rugby have done their research on this pretty thoroughly. I can’t see them backing down and for the future of womens/girls rugby I hope they don’t.

So why they choose to die on this hill I don’t know. It could be their undoing and will help peak millions. Women’s safety is not transphobic (that should be a car sticker). Bring it stonewall.

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

These are the DSM 5 criteria for diagnosis of gender dysphoria in children. Thought I’d share to this thread.

“In children, gender dysphoria diagnosis involves at least six of the following and an associated significant distress or impairment in function, lasting at least six months.

• A strong desire to be of the other gender or an insistence that one is the other gender
• A strong preference for wearing clothes typical of the opposite gender
• A strong preference for cross-gender roles in make-believe play or fantasy play
• A strong preference for the toys, games or activities stereotypically used or engaged in by the other gender
• A strong preference for playmates of the other gender
• A strong rejection of toys, games and activities typical of one’s assigned gender
• A strong dislike of one’s sexual anatomy
• A strong desire for the physical sex characteristics that match one’s experienced gender”

www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria

Is it just me, or do most of those resort to stereotypes? Except for the last 2. But even then it raises the question of what is gender? How does one know they have the ‘wrong gender’ rather than simply having a personality that doesn’t fit into a neat little gender conforming box? I don’t like how so much stock is being put into the way children play, I used to pretend to be a flying horse when I was playing a child, doesn’t mean I actually wanted to be a flying horse but it was a fun imaginary game. Seems like over time people are forgetting that children tend to have vivid imaginations, it really doesn’t mean as much as people think it does.

People act like being trans is this complex thing but it really does boil down to stereotypes, even the DSM-5 says so. People can say a boy playing with a doll Isn’t a symptom on its own but you know some parents will see their son playing with a doll and suddenly the seed is planted, they’ll start looking for things that they otherwise wouldn’t have noticed and it’s a slippery slope from there. I’m so bleeping releived I am not a child today because I had pretty much every ‘symptom’ on that list and here I am 25+ years later in my natural state, still enjoying many ‘gender non conforming’ interests but i’m female and I own it. How many kids today who are being transed would have turned out like me but will now end up stunted and sterilised?

So why instead of teaching these kids to accept their bodies and embrace their personalities are we now telling them their bodies are wrong and they need medicalising? It is so fucked up.

I feel like somethings afoot with mermaids and that something is going to come out over the next 6 months that will blow the lid off of this thing. Might just be wishful thinking...

 

[maytoseptember]

The DSM criteria is fucked up. Liking “opposite gender” clothes, toys and playmates FFS?

Literally no one would bat an eyelid at those preferences 30-40 years ago.

Although having said that, I think girls who preferred “boy” stuff would have had an easier ride than boys who liked “girl” stuff back then - it’s the difference between harmless tomboy and OMG he might be gay.

Literally no one would intervene if a child said they wanted to be the opposite sex. “That’s nice dear, but that’s impossible. Do you want fish fingers for tea?”

As for a “strong dislike of one’s sexual anatomy” that’s a massive red flag for sexual abuse.

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

Agree about girls having an easier time when wanting to wear/do ‘boy stuff‘. A family member scoffed at the idea of her son playing with my daughters doll not too long ago when all he did was pick it up to give it to her. I was like calm down hun it’s not a big deal if he plays with a doll. Even today there seems to be this weird thing about letting boys do ‘girl stuff’. People are more shocked at the idea of a boy wearing a dress than a girl wearing trousers, when really it’s just a piece of fabric.

And I’m the evil bigoted one for not blindly accepting this crap? I mean I’m not the most intelligent personbut I feel like I’m surrounded by dumbasses at times. You’ll never catch me telling my kids their bodies are wrong or that they should really be the opposite sex because their gender doesn’t match. Not in a million years.

No one seems to be asking these kids why they want to be the opposite gender and looking into their lives to see if there are any possible red flags or reasons for the way they feel. It’s all just affirmation from the off, that was never going to end well.

 

[HoGi]

Went to scroll through papergangs Instagram after another thread on here said it is a good subscription box, wantes to see what past boxes contained etc.

Saw they posted this image and immediately decided they wouldn't be getting my custom.

 

[openbook1]

Went to scroll through papergangs Instagram after another thread on here said it is a good subscription box, wantes to see what past boxes contained etc.

Saw they posted this image and immediately decided they wouldn't be getting my custom.

Yikes.

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

Went to scroll through papergangs Instagram after another thread on here said it is a good subscription box, wantes to see what past boxes contained etc.

Saw they posted this image and immediately decided they wouldn't be getting my custom.

Virtue signalling nonsense. Trans men make up such a tiny % of the overall female population. Who is this even for?



Found this handy graphic that explains the physical differences between men and women and why most sports are sex segregated (and should stay that way). A lot of things on there that people don’t consider.

 

[HoGi]

Virtue signalling nonsense. Trans men make up such a tiny % of the overall female population. Who is this even for?



Found this handy graphic that explains the physical differences between men and women And why most sports are sex segregated.View attachment 223907

They turned comments off the post so I guess they must have had some backlash

 

[Doc]

I’ve bought Debra Son’s book - I haven’t finished it yet but i think it’s very balanced. It scares me how science is being so readily disregarded. Wtf is going on with the world if you can’t even rely on quantifiable, tested evidence to state your case cos “feelings”

 

[Zenchick101]

How about the fact that some people try and argue you don't need to quantify how many genders there are and that there can be an infinite number? So in the UK I can report someone to the cops for not calling me a purple penguin? Because that's the gender I just came up with out of my ass and if someone questions that it's discrimination

 

[mindlessness]

A correction I though others here would find interesting:

Correction to Bränström and Pachankis

ajp.psychiatryonline.org

After the article “Reduction in Mental Health Treatment Utilization Among Transgender Individuals After Gender-Affirming Surgeries: A Total Population Study” by Richard Bränström, Ph.D., and John E. Pachankis, Ph.D. (doi: 10.1176/appi.ajp.2019.19010080), was published online on October 4, 2019, some letters containing questions on the statistical methodology employed in the study led the Journalto seek statistical consultations. The results of these consultations were presented to the study authors, who concurred with many of the points raised. Upon request, the authors reanalyzed the data to compare outcomes between individuals diagnosed with gender incongruence who had received gender-affirming surgical treatments and those diagnosed with gender incongruence who had not. While this comparison was performed retrospectively and was not part of the original research question given that several other factors may differ between the groups, the results demonstrated no advantage of surgery in relation to subsequent mood or anxiety disorder-related health care visits or prescriptions or hospitalizations following suicide attempts in that comparison. Given that the study used neither a prospective cohort design nor a randomized controlled trial design, the conclusion that “the longitudinal association between gender-affirming surgery and lower use of mental health treatment lends support to the decision to provide gender-affirming surgeries to transgender individuals who seek them” is too strong. Finally, although the percentage of individuals with a gender incongruence diagnosis who had received gender-affirming surgical treatments during the follow-up period is correctly reported in Table 3 (37.9%), the text incorrectly refers to this percentage as 48%. The article was reposted on August 1, 2020, correcting this percentage and including an addendum referencing the postpublication discussion captured in the Letters to the Editor section of the August 2020 issue of the Journal (1).

It comes after criticism of the original journal article like this: https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/...B-o_6eUfTR_Jzod-wiwF9ZohF6sNNL_AmCZgLwCnGxjuo

 

[Pambo]

But in their eyes there are infinite genders but only two political standpoints; theirs and far right.

True. I've always considered myself a centrist / classically liberal, but the left have moved so far left that many of my positions are apparently "right wing" now.

Such as being a proponent of freedom of speech. I really disagree with deplatforming speakers and cancel culture. I remember years ago, on Question Time, when the subject of the BNP came up, and every politician defended the democracy and the right of people to have to their say no matter how odious it may be to others.

I doubt there'd be a politician willing to make a statement like that now. Not least because it'd get twisted as an endorsement of BNP by the Twitterati.

I know it's a tough call, I think incitement to violence and threats shouldn't be tolerated... but if someone's pro-abortion and another is pro-life, I don't consider the pro-life advocate an extremist who's thoughts on the matter should never be heard.

There's this thing too, that if you're just one degree to the left of Karl Marx, then you're "far right". You either have to be totally onboard with all the lunacy or you're a Nazi. There's no in between.

Meanwhile the people shouting "Nazi" dress in black like Mussolini's Fascists, and riot and prevent political speakers from being heard if they don't like their message, like Hitler's brownshirts. They destroy statues, works of art, call for book bannings from libraries, and want history rewritten.

If that's "tolerant", I want no part of it.