Gender Discussion #9

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I'm following the account so had a look. It seems they've been set upon by the TWAW brigade

Here is the calibre of reply they're getting from the 'right side of history'

 
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For all their squealing about tolerance and liberation, those types are always oppressive bellends, aren’t they?
 
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I actually think it would
Ah jeez the account is now private! Screenshotted the account.

They featured in an article in the Telegraph about trans windows. Here's another thread from the original journalist which has very similar replies.

I'm quite mixed on this actually because if your marriage is declared void then legally you're treated as if you'd never been married at all and this can have an impact on any financial settlement. It isn't impossible to obtain a settlement still but it does make it harder - you would only have a financial settlement if you were married, so if your whole marriage was void, it's harder to obtain one. I worry for women who say, knew their 'husband' was dressing up as a woman on occasion, or was nonbinary, and then later the husband comes out as trans. It will be difficult to then show you didn't already know they were trans and so makes it much harder to argue that the marriage should be void (especially because gay marriage is now allowed). Given that no fault divorce will finally come into effect soon (can't remember exactly when because it was delayed) it seems to me that it may well be financially better for trans widows to obtain a no fault divorce to ensure they get a fair financial settlement as well
 
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I agree it sounds crazy that someone who was born male, where strength is a massive advantage, is competing with other women!

Are there any reverse trans people competing? people born female, but now male, competing in male competitions?

What sports do being female convey an advantage? Maybe someone born female, could do better in gymnastics? Or maybe horse riding? Something extremely high profile would raise awareness even more!
Men's gymnastics is a completely different discipline and Men's pelvis gives them an advantage in most horse events. An average Male athlete can transition and be an Olympic medal contender a Female Olympic medal contender would be nowhere near competing at any level above schoolboy in practically all disciplines. Average female athletes transitioning may be able to compete with the Men at their local club in the bottom leagues.
 
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Ah jeez the account is now private! Screenshotted the account.

They featured in an article in the Telegraph about trans windows. Here's another thread from the original journalist which has very similar replies.

I'm not sure I understand what benefit the spousal agreement has. Is it so that the spouse is able to get a divorce before they're legally in a same sex relationship?
 
He’s changed his tune!
Here’s the thing… a lot of what Lynskey says rings true. As much as my beliefs are totally aligned with Glinner, I do think it’s consumed him and I do think it’s broken him.

I agree it sounds crazy that someone who was born male, where strength is a massive advantage, is competing with other women!

Are there any reverse trans people competing? people born female, but now male, competing in male competitions?

What sports do being female convey an advantage? Maybe someone born female, could do better in gymnastics? Or maybe horse riding? Something extremely high profile would raise awareness even more!
There are no FTMs campaigning to compete against males in sports because they’ll get absolutely trounced. It would be pointless.

In equestrian sports, men and women compete together sometimes. Gymnastics… it’s difficult to compare because they perform on different apparatus (and male gymnasts focus much more on strength) although both do vault and floor.

So no, I don’t think females are ever at a sporting advantage because we are weaker 🤷‍♀️

But “Michael Phelps had huge shoulders!!!!” and apparently that’s just as much of an advantage as a 43 year old bloke competing against women 20 years his junior.
 
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Olympic Weightlifting isn't a mainstream sport so I didn't think it would get anywhere near as much traction as it has and most comments I've seen have been taking the GC side - it got mentioned at work and even the person who is pretty heavily into trans rights didn't verbally support it.


I did see a 'cis' man comment that the only way to 'be fair' is to get rid of gendered sports altogether and just have unisex sports. Also quite a few people saying that 'black men run faster/jump higher than white men so TERFs will want to segregate sports by race next' 🤦‍♀️


I did see one comment from someone who has clearly peaked for the very first time over this, she said something like 'I don't want to agree with gammons or Piers Morgan but I can't see how this is fair, can someone please explain?' Even if she gets told why it is 'fair' that seed has now been planted and she'll start questioning more.


Regarding FTM in sports there are a couple - Patricio Manuel (boxer) and Chris Moiser (triathlete). Moiser made it into the Olympic trials but dropped out due to injury. It's a lot less likely that a transman will win against men versus a transwoman winning against women (it would have to be an extremely talented transman versus an above-mediocre transwoman) but it can happen.
 
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I'm not sure I understand what benefit the spousal agreement has. Is it so that the spouse is able to get a divorce before they're legally in a same sex relationship?
Can't comment on the legal side of things as I'm not sure either. Was more just highlighting the replies to that tweet, with people accusing the trans widows of transphobia and the usual nonsense - these women are often manipulated and gaslit into accepting their husband's transition and can't speak out about it.
 
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You wouldn't need a divorce because the marriage is declared void so it is annulled instead - as if it never happened
 
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Regarding FTM in sports there are a couple - Patricio Manuel (boxer) and Chris Moiser (triathlete). Moiser made it into the Olympic trials but dropped out due to injury. It's a lot less likely that a transman will win against men versus a transwoman winning against women (it would have to be an extremely talented transman versus an above-mediocre transwoman) but it can happen.
Kumi Yokoyama, a women's football player based in the USA has just "come out" as a transman. She says she is a man but wants to go by "they/them" and continue playing for a women's team, so I don't know if she is trying to say she's male or "non-binary". She said in an interview that when she lived in her home country (Japan) she wasn't accepted and was assumed to be heterosexual and expected to live in the closet, but when she moved abroad to play for an American team she was finally able to be herself. Yet she can't live as an open les, she has to be trans? Similarly there is a Japanese model who moved to the USA several years ago and promptly came out as "non-binary", he said that he'd never felt he was really a man because he dated men and liked "feminine" things. I've known this happen with people from my own culture too. They say they're happy and finally living authentically, but cultural ideas of "you're not a man/woman if you are gay or gender non-conforming" leads to them adopting a trans or non-binary identity
 
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Kumi Yokoyama, a women's football player based in the USA has just "come out" as a transman. She says she is a man but wants to go by "they/them" and continue playing for a women's team, so I don't know if she is trying to say she's male or "non-binary". She said in an interview that when she lived in her home country (Japan) she wasn't accepted and was assumed to be heterosexual and expected to live in the closet, but when she moved abroad to play for an American team she was finally able to be herself. Yet she can't live as an open les, she has to be trans? Similarly there is a Japanese model who moved to the USA several years ago and promptly came out as "non-binary", he said that he'd never felt he was really a man because he dated men and liked "feminine" things. I've known this happen with people from my own culture too. They say they're happy and finally living authentically, but cultural ideas of "you're not a man/woman if you are gay or gender non-conforming" leads to them adopting a trans or non-binary identity
Obviously doesn’t think she is that much of a man if she is still happy to play on the women’s team. Or is it that whole “sex and gender aren’t the same” story again.
 
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You wouldn't need a divorce because the marriage is declared void so it is annulled instead - as if it never happened
Screenshot_20210621-204529.png

Ahh, so is it only voidable if your spouse is in the process of transitioning, and upon receipt of the gender recognition certificate the transition is considered 'complete' and so that window closes?
 
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Ahh, so is it only voidable if your spouse is in the process of transitioning, and upon receipt of the gender recognition certificate the transition is considered 'complete' and so that window closes?
No it's kind of the opposite - the GRC (or interim GRC) is what opens the 'window'. I'd have to check but I'm 99% sure a trans widow has 6 months from the date of the GRC/iGRC to have the marriage made void. Someone who is married and seeking a GRC needs the consent of their husband/wife, if the husband/wife says no then an iGRA is granted instead and then this allows either of them to seek an annulment. If the spouse doesn't seek a GRC then the only option for the trans widow is divorce. I'm very interested in what the implications for marriage would therefore be if self ID were to be enshrined in the GRA, but have seen little to no discussion of this whatsoever...it seems to me that if self ID came in and GRCs were no longer needed then by default these marriages would also be voidable, which has pros (spouses not willing to stay with trans partners could leave their marriages more easily than if they had to seek a divorce) but also cons (as I mentioned before, financial settlements for annulments are not guaranteed so could financially disadvantage women seeking to leave trans spouses)

Just found this which was a fascinating read and really sums up the pros/cons of divorce vs annulment I think: https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/16197/pdf/
 
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Wasn't it initially reported that Charisma Amoe-Tarrant (also an Indigenous woman) would lose her place on the Olympic team in favour of Hubbard but then they retracted that and it's now Manumua instead. Before that, he took a medal that should have gone to Feagaiga Stowers. We have to shove aside young women of colour so a middle-aged white man can win a medal
 
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I was curious so looked up the current world records for men’s and women’s weightlifting. The difference is stark. Here is a little snippet based on the 55kg weight class from Wikipedia:

Mens:
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Women’s:
E55E9808-EAFD-4A7B-BD0C-B2ECE8A40626.jpeg


If Laurel breaks world records they will likely never be broken again unless by another male. I don’t have the words to express how angry I am about males in female sports. It’s a travesty about to happen.
 
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If anyone hasn't read this article (a few years old but still relevant): https://4thwavenow.com/2018/04/15/surly-shirley-and-the-assault-on-womens-sport-then-and-now/ I recommend it. It discusses the 1976 Montreal Olympics where swimming competitor Shirley Babashoff tried to raise her suspicions of the East German women's team - who, as we now know, were all using steroids - and was basically laughed at and called a sore loser. Now being repeated with any female athlete who questions whether it's fair for her to compete against men, Hubbard is referenced
 
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