Gender Discussion #9

[awyrwerdd]

Providing for disabled people in a public transport network requires proper planning, budgeting, and real and consistent effort to make actual physical changes to stations and trains, as well as training employees properly, as well as designing assistance protocols that are water tight.

Pandering to a 'non binary' attention seeker whose issue is merely hearing words he doesn't like (in this case 'ladies and gentlemen') takes none of those things and can be addressed with some pathetic grovelling and virtue signalling. Also, non binary attention seekers have a habit of very confidently going wailing to twitter or the press and calling everyone 'phobes or -ists to bludgeon their way into getting companies to pander to their delusional self-identity issue.

Point is, train companies like many other companies, are scared shitless of being called -ists or -phobes and the associated small but vociferous and demented loser twitter mobs that inevitably accompany such hysterics. They are not scared of being unaccommodating to disabled folks, whose needs get swept under the rug as often as not. Plus accommodating whiny asshole gender loons is vastly cheaper.

This is worth a read!

https://legalfeminist.org.uk/2021/02/01/submission-and-compliance/

1 in 6 people in the UK are deaf or hard of hearing but we’re still campaigning for BSL to become an official language (like in Scotland) but we barely get a look in. A lot of MPs think making language and communication accessible is pointless because we’re a minority. Trans people are a TINY minority but everyone’s pandering to them because they’d rather be seen as woke and inclusive but they don’t care about being ableist. Probably because it doesn’t affect them personally, lol.

Just an example! Not having a go at you, btw. I just don’t understand why we have to spend our time and resources on people who claim to be the most oppressed group to ever exist when they evidently aren’t.

 

[Doc]

The rot started in the 80s/90s. “Everyone’s a winner” and “deferred success”. Kids don’t learn resilience now. They don’t learn how to deal with not being included or not being good at something.

It’s a massive disservice to them, crippling their ability to regulate self-esteem and expectations. No wonder so many develop MH problems.

 

[5kirty]

We are petitioning parliament to record accurately the sex not gender of offenders. Rape can only be committed by a penis.. And some perpetrators are self IDing as women when it comes to sentencing..god knows where this will lead.. Please can you sign this no matter where in the UK you are.. Thank you

Petition: Accurately record the sex of people charged or convicted of rape or attempted rape

Calling on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to require Police Scotland, the Crown Office and the Scottish Court Service to accurately record the sex of people charged or convicted of rape or attempted rape.

petitions.parliament.scot

 

[colouredlines]

I despise the "sex work is work" crowd. Prostitution was decriminalised by the Spanish govt in the mid-90s. The result? The country is now the sex trafficking capital of Europe.

There's a town called La Jonquera, right on the border with France, where prostitution is now really the only business. French guys cross the border, pay for sex, then go home. It's truly horrendous, and anyone who bangs on about how fabulous and empowering sex work is should go there and have a look at the prostituted women. They are almost all immigrants in precarious situations, under the sway of gangs. This is the reality of prostitution, not "teehee here's a funny anecdote" Belle du Jour crap.

I used to listen to the You're Wrong About podcast, and I had to stop in a rage when they did a human trafficking episode and basically said that there was nothing wrong with poor immigrant women choosing to be prostitutes, it's a legitimate choice of work, etc etc. How anyone can be so willfully ignorant is beyond me.

 

[Buswanker]

Tried having a calm discussion with a TW. Their view being that gender critical females see TW as a threat in women only spaces, therefore are creating fear and hate towards them. In doing so, hetero men will jump to do our bidding and assault or even kill trans women because of our beliefs.
I explained that a large percentage of women, regardless of sexuality, have been on the receiving end of some form of sexual harassment, assault or worse, numerous times. I’ve lost count by this point. My worst moment was fearing rape. In a moment of self-preservation I distinctly remember looking at my stiletto heel on the floor and looking at my wide open second floor window (off the lock) and being so terrified that I thought that the only way to stop this was to stab him with the heel or push him out of the window. Thankfully, I didn’t have to resort to either because my housemate was a hero! I’m quite large chested so I’ve being gawked at, been told that I’ve dropped something to prompt me to bend over so that the front of my top gapes open and then had men cheering a whooping, strangers actually groping my chest or backside, being asked for directions from a car only for the man to expose his penis, and so many other instances. All of which have made me feel like men are a threat. And how many of us have gone through this?
Historically, and through experience, even currently with the Sara Everard case, we know that men are a threat. Not all of them, but some of them.
I tired an analogy with the trans woman in question, after explaining all of this.
Wolves have been known to attack and maul humans. Not every wolf on the planet has, but it has happened. We automatically fear them and see them as a danger as a result of that, do we not? I mean, if a pack surrounded you, I doubt you’d be feeling overly pleased about it.
Anyway, if I brought twenty wolves to your door, keep in mind the automatic fear you’d initially feel, and I told you that statistically only one of them might attack or possibly kill you, I can’t tell you which one, and you won’t know for sure until they’re all in your home (your safe space, shall we say…) would you be willing to let them all in? Even though nineteen of them are harmless, would you be willing to take the risk?

Still said I was a TERF. The entitlement is real. The ignorance of what it is really like to be a woman is real. They think they know. Popping on a dress and some eyeliner, and boom, you’re a woman.

 

[philheybrookbay]

Think this comes under the saying "just because you can do something-

There was a discussion on the last thread re: mixed gender wards in hospitals. This actually happens where I live and I can tell you it's extremely uncomfortable. I was recovering from a hysterectomy and the guy in the bed next to mine had hepatitis to the point he looked like an inhabitant of Springfield. He'd picked it up from a sex worker in Thailand and I had to listen to him arguing with his wife the whole 5 days I was in there. Not to mention going to the bathroom in a hospital gown trying to keep it shut at the back whilst steering my drip.

I've just had minor surgery at a different hospital which has women-only wards and I just felt so much more able to relax without being conscious of not having a bra on.

I wouldn't feel comfortable with a man identifying as a woman being in there pre-op either, same goes for prisons etc.

We are different biologically and that's an incontrovertible fact. Our safety and comfort as women is being pushed to the side, like we haven't gone through enough as a biological female anyway.

My best mate has a story from a hospital. Male identified as a woman was on the same ward as him. Said person demanded to be treated like a woman in all respects. Surgeon doing the operation pointed out gently they'd need a catheter post op. Person demanded a female one. Was told biologically not possible. Screamed the ward down and demanded one and got a hospital big wig in. Was told the only option wasn't to have one. Said yes. Only to be told- they'd have to sit in a pool of urine for days which would lead to infection and possible rotting of the wound and sepsis and possible death.

They had the male catheter post op....and nobody, no nurses, Dr's, fellow patients would talk to them afterwards until they left.

My Mum ended up on a male ward all be it separately and she was treated like royalty by the staff- as it was rare for females to go onto that ward. Nurses gave her mags, papers and chatted about shopping etc. Just amazing caring staff.

 

[Platformcrocs]

This is a very fair and detailed reply thank you! And now I agree that sadly there is a clear issue with certain men exploiting a system. It’s so complicated (especially in regards to third prison space or a better definition/system) as you don’t want to hurt or vindicate Non-predatory transwomen etc.. They just want to be their true selves and are not harmful. Anyway. I get the prison issue now. I still feel some posts here are a little extreme or are blanket claims but I also feel assured that there are people here who believe majority of trans, gender fluid etc. are “good” and don’t have an agenda. Just felt off reading damning remarks like “most trans identifying men...” with no sources or data.

A lot of what we have discussed here is personal/lived experience. I used to work a MtF person in their late 40s who lived their life as a privileged man by all accounts and has done very well for themselves as a company owner. They now sit on diversity and inclusion panels but did absolutely nothing to promote women at their own business, which they have owned for over 20 years, and that's still the case. Poor maternity pay, sexism, women being passed over for roles because "they might have a baby", you name it - all under the watch of this person. So it's difficult for me to accept someone like this who isn't (and never was) interested in supporting women, and has never experienced things that we as women do experience. I noticed a few people discussing something similar earlier on in the thread too. I don't have sources or data and that's my personal experience.

 

[judgejohndeed]

Non binary is almost the worst of the lot for me. Anyone who doesn’t strictly conform to gender norms is surely non binary. Well, nor do I but I’m still female, not non binary. Needing a special term for ‘people who don’t exactly present as their sex all the time’ surely serves to entrench gender stereotypes more deeply?
I don’t know if anyone else has observed this specific thing, but I can count almost 10 women under 30 I know who have recently ‘come out’ as NB. It’s striking to me that in their late teens/early 20s they were all very slim. They have now all gained a lot of weight - talking over size 20 here -post regularly about ‘body positivity’ and ‘loving being fat’ etc, and now they’re NB too. I don’t know whether this is all just a random correlation, but when I realised it the other day I found it very strange. Also, despite being adamant about being NB/they pronouns, they are all what would typically be regarded as female presenting - long hair, dresses, etc. What is even the point of NB in these cases then? I can’t help but wonder if it’s some manifestation of feeling uncomfortable with the extreme weight gain or something tbh.

 

[fmmac]

Oh Avery, I don't hate you. I'm just indifferent. What I care about is women and children. Not everything is about you

 

[Glaschelle]

There's a new cafe opening near me - Queer, Yiddish, Pay what you can

it's got a sign in the Window saying

No Cops - No TERFS

I'm desparate to ask if there's a male version of a TERF???

I won't be frequenting this establishment. I'll continue going to the one further along the road that been run by the 2 gay guys for years. They don't seem to have problems welcoming everybody!!!

 

[AnderbeauJohnson]

Ah, what a surprise - a white man with BLM in his screen-name telling a Black woman that she doesn't understand intersectionality / feminism.

I saw this earlier today and it annoyed me a lot

This woman is a lawyer, I highly doubt that she will ever be forced into sex trafficking or survival prostitution and she's belittling victims by stating that they had the 'agency to choose' sex work. It is so easy for her to sit in her tower and talk philosophy.

 

[AnderbeauJohnson]

I remember a conversation with my girls friends about finding other races attractive and by saying you didn’t find X race attractive was racist.

Other people do not have the right to say what you must find attractive or I guess what they are saying is you must find ALL people attractive regardless of your background, sex, gender, sexuality, religion, age etc. This enters frightening territory where someone predatory could force someone into a relationship because how dare they offend them by not being attracted to them.

People are already attempting it - in 2020 there was an 18 year old lesbian who made a tik tok saying that she wouldn't be willing to have sex with a pre-op transwoman.

She got thousands of hate comments and eventually made a couple of follow-up tik toks apologising, saying that Rowling was a TERF and that she wasn't, and that just because you don't find 'male genitalia attractive' it doesn't make you a TERF.

Well, it hit the fan after that - she then apologised a few more times, saying that she was sorry for saying that a penis is male genitalia and of course TWAW and a transwoman's penis is female.

Then she started getting comments telling her, over and over again, that she had to have sex with a pre-op transwoman in order to prove that she wasn't transphobic and that only then would she be 'forgiven.'

It was horrendous - I hope she's doing okay now. A lot of GC women were annoyed at her for throwing Rowling under the bus but for someone that age to undergo that much vitriol, I'm not surprised she tried to say anything to make them stop attacking her.

 

[AlanBanan]

I just got banned from twitter for the second time, haha.

I read the email they sent and I got banned because I told someone to hide their Adam’s apple whilst preaching feminism. I can’t stop laughing that out of all of the stuff I’ve said on there that is what gets me banned haha.

 

[Phil Anne Throw Pee]

As someone who is currently having a period from hell after 7 months with no period and WFH as a result today, get in the bin men who PRETEND to have periods. This shit is beyond absurd.

 

[judgejohndeed]

Benjamin Cohen is a literal dope on a rope, idk why anyone listens to anything he has to say about anything

Sometimes I feel like things are actually coming to a head and then I see horrendously homophobic garbage like this and think it isn't going to be over any time soon. (Click through to see all of it.)

OK, so tell people upfront that you're trans, then? It's not genuine attraction if you have to conceal your real sex in order for people to experience it. This is disgustingly homophobic, creepy and weird.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

While I'm utterly terrified for Marion Millar and it's gut wrenching to think of the stress she's going through I hope it peaks more people. A ribbon. A fucking ribbon. It is just beyond belief

 

[Sunshine&clouds]

Never

View attachment 613890

Fuck these deluded shits. No-one born a man is going to tell me I have been booted out of feminism. Feminists are born, it's not a club you join. You can't subscribe to Feminism. People like this, people born male are misogynists. They were born misogynists and will die misogynists unless they stop being dicks and start behaving like decent human beings.

IF YOU ARE BORN MALE AND ATTACK WOMEN AND WOMEN'S RIGHTS YOU ARE A MISOGYNIST - A MAN WHO HATES WOMEN.

One more thing. I am NOT CIS.

I was female before I was born. I was born female/a girl, have grow into a woman and whether I die tomorrow or in 50 years time, I will die female and a woman. So they can fuck off with the whole cis and Terfs shit and while they're at it, they can stop deciding what a woman is. This has already been decided, thousands of years ago. So all these Charles/Charlottes, Harry, Harriots, Luke/Lucys and pissing Unicorn Sprinkles and Sunshine Rainbows can fuck off.

 

[holliebollie]

Oh fuck OFFFFFFFFFFFF! It’s bad enough we aren’t allowed to say pregnant women, it’s the fact we will NEVER see ‘erectile dysfunction tablets for people’ or multiple charities for male illnesses renaming it ‘Movember for people with testicles’. Someone at uni emailed me with she/her after her name this week and it enraged me for the day- her name is something clearly for women eg. Julie and I’ve seen her on Zoom... clearly a woman. I wanted to write back with (woman) but I’m too scared they’ll think I’m being facetious.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

The part about TiMs being not only welcomed but 'cherished' in a facebook group for menopausal women made me want to die of cringe. The idea of women going through an upheaval like that and fawning over male interlopers who have no business being on that group in the first place

 

[emmer_moans]

What would we call Grandparents by the new 'logic'? Chestfeeder of the chesterfeeder of the child? Or instead of saying "I'm going round to Grandad's for tea' do you say "I'm going round to the person who provided sperm to sporn the person who in turn provided sperm to my chester feeding parent"? Or Grand-sperm producer?

Bonkers.