Gender Discussion #74

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Hello. I'm an autist, or "on the spectrum" as people put it nowadays. Here's why I think there's such a link between autism, transing oneself, and suicide.

You're a teenager. You struggle with all these hormones blasting everything and how it makes your life unpredictable and difficult. Previously you found girls / boys (delete as appropriate) lame and stupid, but now, you want to have sex with them all of a sudden. And lots of it. Only there's a problem. Your autism makes it an impossible ask for that boy / girl you fancy the most to be attracted to you.
I’m autistic too. When I was at school I was absolutely horrified by the idea of having a boyfriend, or having sex, and my social awkwardness meant that absolutely no one was interested in me either 😂 I felt like a total freak. I would 100% have called myself non-binary to shield myself from everything to do with sex, relationships and basically every other social expectation heaped on girls in the 90s. And it’s so much worse for girls today.
 
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Top story in the Mail online is about a young person, Cal, child of a Fast Show actor and his film producer wife, who has tragically unalived themselves at Oxford. Incredibly bright, doing a neuroscience PhD and was also autistic. Seemed like a lovely, caring young person. Mail headline is: ‘Gifted trans student daughter of Fast Show actor…’. The Mail uses they/them pronouns throughout, but uses the word ‘daughter’ correctly in the title. Cal was a same-sex attracted female who married her wife Imogen last year. The memorial page is quoted as saying, ‘Imogen tried to secure Cal the right treatment for this all too prevalent but not yet understood crisis of suicides amongst autistic people identifying as trans.'

IMO, trans is a complete red herring and I hope to hell this isn’t jumped on by TRAs as some kind of evidence of trans victimisation. Autistic adults with no learning disability are nine times more likely to die by s*icide than the general population. It is the link between autism and s*icide that needs to be considered, not the link between trans and s*icide. Of course, the link between autism and ROGD in adolescent girls also needs to be factored in.
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There is also the link with being away from home at university. For some young, vulnerable people it really isn't the right fit or alternatively something happens whilst at university which they are unable to cope with. So many universities have been warned that they are failing students when it comes to safeguarding. I think it hasn't even been agreed yet that there can be an arrangement to allow parents to be informed if their child is experiencing mental health difficulties.
In my experience universities are happy to take the money, but can't be arsed to check if a student is ok. Some students never even meet their tutor and when they raise issues they are ignored or it is swept under the carpet.
It is not bleeping good enough.
 
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Hello. I'm an autist, or "on the spectrum" as people put it nowadays. Here's why I think there's such a link between autism, transing oneself, and suicide.

You're a teenager. You struggle with all these hormones blasting everything and how it makes your life unpredictable and difficult. Previously you found girls / boys (delete as appropriate) lame and stupid, but now, you want to have sex with them all of a sudden. And lots of it. Only there's a problem. Your autism makes it an impossible ask for that boy / girl you fancy the most to be attracted to you. All the other teenagers of your sex seem impossibly adept at negotiating it and talking to them while you find it like searching for a needle in a stack of needles.

You ask people for advice. Your teenage peers laugh at you for doing this or sneer or exclude you or all of the above. If you're a boy, they'll probably duff you up every so often just to make sure you know your place. If you're a girl they'll exclude you and spread rumours about you. Adults either are too busy, give well meaning but 20+ years out of date advice (life and youth culture was different when they were your age), or patronise you by saying that "it'll happen, you just need to have patience." It won't, incidentally. So you look online. After all, they don't know you. They don't know that you're an outcast and people in online spaces seem to get it. Then someone tells you "maybe you're trans and were born in the wrong body. That's why you can't seem to relate to the other girls / boys in a way they find acceptable or find a boy / girl who fancies you or you can attract." They shove all these leaflets and things at you.

(This process is known as hatching an egg. It makes me feel polluted that I know this.)

You read them. Of course! It all makes sense! You've always felt like something was wrong with you, this must be it! Result - you're taken up the Tavistock, filled full of puberty blockers and cross sex hormones, and rushed into surgery to have your fool / bits sawn off. I probably would have been pushed down this route.

And then you find out you've been sold a bill of goods, you're in constant pain from having your genitals mutilated, you still feel like and are an outcast, and if you raise this with your trans identified new found family and say that you maybe think you've been sold a bill of goods they'll turn on you.

At that point, the rope seems like an appealing option.

I don't think as a society we handle people with autism very well generally. Yes, it's better than when I was a teenager in the late 1990s and early 2000s inasmuch as they aren't written off as drama queens and basement dwellers but now instead "geek" stuff is colonised by normies larping as same because they watched The Big Bang Theory and turning those interests into another outgrowth of the very culture the autists sought to avoid, and people "on the spectrum" are headpatted and patronised and pushed to basically be vaguely out the way rather than actively hated and derided. What is needed is not to patronise autists or to hate them but to simply understand that's how they are and actually treat them as normal human beings, not a morality pet. Also stop enabling them to treat their autism as their entire personality.

I also suspect there's a lot of transing the gay away.
God you are so spot on with this!!
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Wow, very sad about the Cal woman but equally as sad about that Zander man. Honestly this just reminds me so much of herd mentality and the witch trials. People thinking they are being moral when in fact they are being dehumanising and cruel
 
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God you are so spot on with this!!
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Wow, very sad about the Cal woman but equally as sad about that Zander man. Honestly this just reminds me so much of herd mentality and the witch trials. People thinking they are being moral when in fact they are being dehumanising and cruel
In all honesty I see the same attitude on here, the 'believe all Women' the 'I could never be friends with someone who did that' etc
It's not healthy, humanity is nuanced, you can feel disgust at someone's actions yet still like them based on your personal interactions.
 
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The “be kind” culture is anything but. people, have to follow the herd behave in a certain way or else. The cancel culture is another form of bullying and ganging up on people. It’s so opposite of any sort of kindness. It’s very, “Think as I do or else”.
In all honesty I see the same attitude on here, the 'believe all Women' the 'I could never be friends with someone who did that' etc
It's not healthy, humanity is nuanced, you can feel disgust at someone's actions yet still like them based on your personal interactions.
Yes, sadly not all women are honest, and make false claims purely for spite and revenge. People seem to be unable to make up their own minds and seem to go with the crowd. With so much of this herd mentality, cancel culture and and believing in nonsense like humans being able to change sex, I remember a very wise English teacher at my high school. She always told us to question things, not just wait to be spoon fed without thinking for ourselves. To question things. It seems like the ability for critical thought and making your own mind up about things is a dying skill.
 
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Not strictly gender related but towards the discussion of the experiences of people with autism. A very close family member is autistic (and describes himself as such). Really, actually, diagnosis as a child autism, not self-diagnosed from watching TikTok. He was horrified when he first started feeling sexual attraction and for a couple of years worried he was a “p”. Then once reassured it was a normal part of the human condition he too (as described so eloquently Le cochon) went looking online to find out why no girls his age were interested. Unfortunately for him (and us) he discovered the manosphere/Andrew Tate types and sought refuge in online incel communities. It’s literally ruining his life and making him unmanageable for carers etc. Because he becomes fixated on ideas and likes to fact-find and disseminate his information he will go on hours long rants and meltdown over it. You can’t reason with him because he lives and breathes it now. I know if it was trans he had latched onto he would’ve talked himself into blaming all his difficulties on that, and society’s “transphobia”. We are massively failing young people with autism by not preparing them for the realities of adult life and how they will see what their peers have yet will find it difficult to achieve that for themselves. It’s another example of how “inclusivity” is damaging- being told it doesn’t matter what your difficulties are in life, everyone around you should bend the rules to make sure you can have/be/do anything you want when in reality sometimes you can’t. Then we give them full access to the internet from a young age and the two combined are a recipe for unhappiness and grooming by these ideologies (which at their heart are so similar). I feel sad and angry at him at the same time (he is academically much brighter than us) so should be able to work it out as balls, but his condition stops him seeing the wood from the trees on this one.
 
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Wow, very sad about the Cal woman but equally as sad about that Zander man. Honestly this just reminds me so much of herd mentality and the witch trials. People thinking they are being moral when in fact they are being dehumanising and cruel
I’m confused by the coverage of the suicide of this young man. Somehow it’s been accepted that he was ostracised by his friend group and it’s all about “cancel culture” and “free speech”, but the story I read said that he’d had sex with a girl and something bad/possibly non-consensual had happened. She told people and the friendship group turned on him.

Of course many people are going to accuse the girl of making it up, “crying grape” etc but I wasn’t expecting to hear it in this thread of all threads.
 
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I’m confused by the coverage of the suicide of this young man. Somehow it’s been accepted that he was ostracised by his friend group and it’s all about “cancel culture” and “free speech”, but the story I read said that he’d had sex with a girl and something bad/possibly non-consensual had happened. She told people and the friendship group turned on him.

Of course many people are going to accuse the girl of making it up, “crying grape” etc but I wasn’t expecting to hear it in this thread of all threads.
Maybe read the whole article I shared.

"If you believe that someone’s conduct is worthy of removal from polite society, then polite society already has a mechanism to bring this about – the criminal justice system. In this case, the criminal justice system was not employed. This was old-fashioned mob justice."

"Basic decency was not there for Alexander Rogers. He’s dead now."
 
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Is this the same criminal justice system where a BBC reporter had to repeatedly fight (with evidence) to get a sexual predator incarcerated (who will likely be out in less than half the time due to overcrowding).

Being socially ostracised is deeply unpleasant, but it is not the same as a mob bricking your house or chasing you with the intention of lynching. He seems to be used as a poster boy for blaming women for not going to a system they know will most likely fail them. Same happened with Russell Brand and Al Fayed's accusers. "Why didn't she go to the police" seems to be the new "Why didn't she scream for help?"
 
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Article in the Mail and I’ve found the survey, if you want to complete it. You’re supposed to be in the East Midlands, but it doesn’t ask for an address, so we can all complete it!

View attachment 3273627


Sexual orientation is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act. It doesn’t matter whether your orientation is gay, straight or bi. I’m sure someone could use the Act to make a case that this was discriminating against heterosexual couples.
 
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Is this the same criminal justice system where a BBC reporter had to repeatedly fight (with evidence) to get a sexual predator incarcerated (who will likely be out in less than half the time due to overcrowding).

Being socially ostracised is deeply unpleasant, but it is not the same as a mob bricking your house or chasing you with the intention of lynching. He seems to be used as a poster boy for blaming women for not going to a system they know will most likely fail them.
But the reality is we don't know the truth of what happened between them and the outcome is his death. A death sentence isn't even available in the UK for murder or pedophilia and being socially ostracised is more than "deeply unpleasant" it is soul destroying and cruel. We are social creatures, it is deeply deeply damaging for a persons psyche, it is why it's considered a form of abuse.

This man wasn't Jeffery Epstein or Harvey Weinstein. He was a young man who did "something" we don't even know what. Did he deserve a death sentence? Because that's what he got.

People have lost all sense of nuance.
 
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I’m confused by the coverage of the suicide of this young man. Somehow it’s been accepted that he was ostracised by his friend group and it’s all about “cancel culture” and “free speech”, but the story I read said that he’d had sex with a girl and something bad/possibly non-consensual had happened. She told people and the friendship group turned on him.

Of course many people are going to accuse the girl of making it up, “crying grape” etc but I wasn’t expecting to hear it in this thread of all threads.
No one is accusing anyone of making things up, I didn't get the impression that there was an accusation of grape, the sex appeared consensual but possibly a particular aspect of the sex that, on reflection, she wasn't happy with.
I'm of an age where when I was in my early 20's I had a lot of sexual partners, some that I had 'buyers remorse' over in the cold light of day, there were some acts that I'd think on reflection, hmm wish I hadn't done that but as a functioning adult I chalked it up to experience and moved on.
Having said that I never felt pushed into doing anything.
 
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I’ve completed the survey in as respectful way as I could. They are considering their criteria that exclude women of high BMI and smokers/vapers but showing disregard for women on cross-sex hormones with mental health issues 🤔
 
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How aggressive! How territorial! How very... male! I hope this will backfire and peak a lot of people.

 
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In my experience universities are happy to take the money, but can't be arsed to check if a student is ok. Some students never even meet their tutor and when they raise issues they are ignored or it is swept under the carpet.
It is not bleeping good enough.
With regard to both student s*icides, I think @The Wicked Lady makes a very valid point. University’s are woefully inadequate at supporting students who may be having a tough time. They need to be more clued-in to the sorts of struggles experienced by students who may lack a support network and check in on them more frequently. Many don’t have MH problems, but just have trouble fitting in or feel alienated by others. My son just started uni and hates going anywhere where there are crowds/loud music due to ASD. As a result, his flat mates have begun to exclude him when organising activities (even if they don’t involve the aforementioned). He is trying to put on a brave face but I can tell he feels sad. The SEND department are aware of his diagnoses (has sensory processing issues too) but have never made any contact with him since he started.
 
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Why do women not got to the police?

Sarah Everard and all the other women murdered by serving police officers.

Two police officers recently dismissed for accessing records about her.

The WhatsApp chat of police sharing crime scene photos of murdered women.

The horrendous grape conviction rates.

Mod edit: All, please move on from this now and keep the thread on topic. Thank you.
 
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On topic, it will be interesting to see how it pans out with Imane Khelif, I can't get over that footage of him behaving like an absolute geezer. His PR people don't seem to be putting out any counter videos of him on a girl's night out or baking at home.
 
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