Gender Discussion #54

[Metropolis]

Okay, I know I'm a bit thick but is this not a woman sleeping with man and she becomes pregnant???

And then comes out with a shitty, gaslighting quote like this to put on the cover of a magazine: “I’m a pregnant trans man and I do exist. No matter what anyone says, I am literally living proof.”
Living proof of what exactly? You are not some strange species formally thought to be extinct. You’re one of millions of females who get pregnant every year. Your existence has never been called into question.

Logan Brown: ‘I’m a pregnant trans man and I do exist. No matter what anyone says, I am literally living proof’

GLAMOUR’s Pride coverstar talks queer love, dealing with transphobia and his journey to parenthood.

www.glamourmagazine.co.uk

 

[klarakluckbag]

I can't stay long on the Brianna trial thread, and I'm not particularly enamoured of the press reporting of this trial either. A young man (a confused, possibly mentally unwell, probably gay, young man) has been murdered, and him wearing a dress and using a female name doesn't change the fact that he was a boy.
Every single news report states that he was a "teenage girl".....no, he wasn't. His parents have lost their son (more than once), but will he ever be acknowledged in the reports? I really feel for his mother, she's been gaslit into mourning for a daughter, will anyone recognise her actual loss?
I don't even know her deceased son's name

 

[Mismatched Pegs]

Imagine someone GC tweeting this but substituting "transwomen" for TERF. There'd be a fucking riot from that lot.
Anyway we don't want you hanging out with us in the pub. Or the women's toilets, changing rooms, sports, rape crisis centres or anywhere else that is female only. So it's a bit of a mute point India.

 

[Vanelope]

A man can run a woman’s health charity. A man who has been openly offensive towards women in his larping and also in his social media presence should not. Downright creepy towards Milli Hill, he is not a suitable face for a woman’s charity.

 

[Lynn’ssnazzycardigan]

I said I wouldn’t keep mentioning Brianna but it just keeps getting worse the more I read. It’s maybe not appropriate since this poor soul was murdered so please call me out if I’m in the wrong. This child was very troubled and there should be a discussion about how kids like this get swept up in the cult of trans. Eating disorder, severe anxiety, self harm, excluded from school. Projecting all of that onto being born male and thinking it can be fixed by wearing a costume. The poor bairn probably did feel better with full makeup and cute outfit because it was covering up the person he couldn’t bear to be. It doesn’t fix what was wrong inside though. Brianna’s poor mum has worked hard campaigning for better mental health support in schools, I saw a news film about her and she didn’t mention trans once, she’s obviously switched on and I hope she isn’t getting harassed at all by the TRAs.

 

[Metropolis]

I’ve just watched the Dr Who reboot. Everyone in my household are long-time fans so we were looking forward to seeing David Tennant reprise the role.

I knew there was going to be a trans character, and thought well okay, maybe they’ll just be there as a character and their transness wont be commented on. But oh no, we had the full-on virtue signalling that had nothing to do with the plot. At one point, the doctor referred to an alien as ‘he’ and was pulled up by the TIM character with, “you’re assuming he as a pronoun?”
The Doctor replies, “true - sorry. Are you a he, a she or a they?”
The alien says, “my chosen pronoun is the definite article.”
The trans character saves the day of course and we had a spiel about becoming who they were meant to be blah blah. The mother (Catherine Tate) is shown as ultra protective when some kids ‘misgender’ the trans ‘daughter’. Honestly, the way it detracted from the story put us all off. They’ve had gay characters, disabled characters etc many times before and they are just there as characters with lives. If the whole series is going to be like this, think I’ll lose the will…

 

[Django]

 

[HockyRorror]

The BB thread is lovely so I'll slag off another thread and hopefully anger the GC crew at the same time. Why bring this into the conversation when the trans housemate has left? Ugh.
View attachment 2562781

I got told off on that thread too lol.

 

[Notworthy]

It's frustrating I know but I simply don't agree with the tone & content of some of the posts on this thread about Caster Semenya. I guess this is what I mean by an 'unbreachable' difference of opinion. We're unlikely to change each other's mind. Forums like this are interesting but they rarely/never lead to anyone persuading/dissuading anyone else from their viewpoint, and that's okay.

The tone and content on this thread is because this has been dragging on for 14 fucking years and during that time numerous Women have lost medals, opportunities and money. That is all down to Semenya and their team refusing to acknowledge that he is a cheat that doesn't belong in the Female category. Instead they have doubled and tripled down. If Semenya and others with the same DSD (ie Males) weren't smashing the dreams of actual biological Women but instead just retired from Athletics and lived their lives however they pleased there would be no 'hate'. Pretty much everyone on here has expressed sympathy for the teenage Semenya that was so publicly outed but that was in 2009.
Are you really of the mind that a biological Male should have the right to compete in the Female category, a category that came about because Women can't compete physically with Men on a level playing field in most sports. Do you really believe that opportunities expressly there for Women should be co-opted by Men. Where do you think that will leave Women's sport long term.

For the record this particular forum has actually changed peoples mind because we have scientific reality on our side and we have numerous intelligent posters that are able to clearly and concisely explain what is actually happening without 'hate'

 

[MaineCoonMama]

Who are we supposed to be "remembering" on this Trans Day of Remembrance? All those millions tens of TiM's who bravely shouted at women who dared speak up at events held for women? All those courageous NB's who have their healthy breasts removed? The daring drag queens who fight their way through the protesters so that they can expose their cocks literary skills to little kids?
Ok, Sadiq, how about a Women's Day of Remembrance? For all of the women killed in your city, under your watch?

A minutes silence for the women killed every week by former and current intimate partners.
I don't know UK statistics but here in Australia it's an average of one per week, out of a population of 25 million.
How can people not be outraged by this? Whatever their fucking pronouns are why aren't they forcing change for women?

 

[DoraMaar]

An interesting little experiment

 

[Mismatched Pegs]

Really, really disappointed. Shame on you, Sandi.

I was just reading this morning that Sandi's WEP have been funded to the tune of nearly £100K over three years by a Google exec who has a trans child. But I'm sure this and her complete inability to "understand" matters are totally unconnected.
Someone coming from a nice cosy middle class luvvie environment who'll likely never been in a position to have to think about prisons, or rape crisis centres or all the other things the rest of us care about.
I don't give a fuck whether Sandi chooses not to understand. Consent is not transferable and even if you're quite happy with men in women's space, you don't get to tell the rest of us we have to be.
Seriously, Sandy can just get to fuck with her faux naivety.

 

[maytoseptember]

I didn’t have a problem with them having a trans character,

I do

Mainly because it’s so blatantly about social conditioning, especially of the (mostly young and/or neurodivergent) obsessive DW audience. Russell T Davies and the TIM actor playing Rose did an interview (it’s circulating on Twitter) about how important it is to normalise being trans and getting the message out to young people.

This is where the conflation of trans rights and gay rights annoys me. Being trans is not the same as being gay. We shouldn’t be normalising being trans any more than we should be normalising any mental illness that causes harm to developing bodies and brains.

 

[Rainemae]

I guess India had nothing constructive to say in response to the woman's argument, and had to resort to criticising her appearance instead. Telling.

It baffles me that lesbian women like Sandi can agree with the erasure of the idea of lesbianism. It's a new version of "if you just met the right man..."

Women like Sandi are basically pulling the ladder up after themselves and throwing the next generation of lesbians to the wolves.

They get social capital for standing up for men in dresses and bullying other lesbians into “unlearning their genital preferences” but they are often in long term relationships or marriages that mean they will never have to dip back into the dating pool and dodge all the men that they’ve allowed in.

 

[exhausted_mother]

OH MY GOD! Guys if we don’t want to wear dresses or make up maybe we’re TRANS. This reductive idea of gender is so fucked up.

 

[klarakluckbag]

I hate to police the thread but could we please have less of the 'top surgery' and more double mastectomy. After all that is what it is. Let's not wishy washy that reality away

I completely agree with this, although of course everyone can call it what they wish. My mum has breast cancer so I'm possibly a bit touchy over the term "top surgery", mostly because it tends to be used only for the mutilation of healthy women. Women who have a life-threatening illness clearly don't deserve the same consideration when hearing that their only chance of living longer involves brutal surgery. Then, it's all "double masectomy" or "radical surgery", no sugar-coating for them!
It's the same with aspects of the MtF surgery...you rarely hear it referred to as "castration", do you?

 

[IndominusRex]

That's interesting. I see it as a request that I respectfully adhere to because why not. Why do you think it's dangerous?

I definitely think, because I love Mae, I lept to their defence. I have friends who are non-binary, lesbian, gay...I think live and let live and that if everyone adopted that philosophy the world would be better.

The world is obviously crappy and dark right now and kindness is so important. I love that you said you'd stand up for anyone who was being attacked for being different.

On a fundamental level it's weird to me that we have these strict binaries - male or female. I've often wondered, and will probably get laughed at for this, why when we're born we can't be non-binary (sorry to use this label again but for lack of a better word) and then decide to be who we want to be without fear of judgement. Maybe I'm being a bit silly. Don't get me wrong I have a child and she is the sex that she is biologically. But if she came to me when old enough to make an informed decision and told me she was something else I'd fully support her.

I guess gender, sexuality, science, morals....they're all interesting topics and can be contentious when overlapped. Do you think this thread is more of a 'Woman's rights' thread rather than a gender thread or is it aptly named as 'Gender thread'? I just wonder because you are all fiercely championing women and our rights (I respect that) and while you believe gender to be an important part of the discussion there are so many parts to it?

Sorry for waffling just brain dumping into the thread!

Sex = male/female, binary, unchangeable
Gender = masculine/feminine, fluid, the ideas and stereotypes associated with it vary according to culture and over time

I think maybe you’re confusing the 2? We can’t decide if we want to be male or female any more than we can decide our race or our eye colour, it’s a simple fact of our DNA. We can decide our interests and our lifestyles and what we wear and what haircut we have but none of these have anything to do with our sex.

 

[Notworthy]

Such a shame that Himdia can't attain the levels of invisibility that actual Women are subjected to post 50

 

[Quokka]

Gosh, that must be quite some time ago I wrote that, amazed you looked back that far in my posts!
Thanks though, for helping remind me why I steer clear of here usually. It would be boring if everyone thought the same on every single topic, but in some cases the differences of opinion are just too wide to broach, sadly.

I can't believe the idea that a man is a man and a woman is a woman is so hard to comprehend and discuss but okay

 

[maytoseptember]

@HockyRorror, this is so funny, it’s straight out of that Ricky Gervais routine

‘Well, his penis.’
‘Her penis, you fucking bigot!’
‘What if he rapes me?’
‘What if she rapes you, you fucking TERF whore?'”