Gender Discussion #48

[Gloria Rostron]

I don't share the same views as many on this thread, but I do acknowlegde there is a growing problem when it comes to segregated spaces. Surely a clear option would be to become more specific when labelling said spaces, such as male and female instead of gentlemen and ladies. Accessible (solo) facilities should be made available for anyone who isn't comfortable with the consequences of the segregated spaces. This way, everyone's gender identification is respected and the risk of grape in female spaces is reduced.

I do believe in a free world, where people should be free to live their lives as they choose (law permitting). But I do think some places make things more complicated than needs be, such as those with the "playful" terms for segregated facilities.

Isla Bryson has comitted an atrocious crime. But that does not mean that all trans women have done the same. I do not doubt that some people abuse our liberal approach to gender identification. I feel the disgust at the heinous crime Isla committed. As a woman, I know what it's like to feel unsafe (I am sure some men do also).

Looking at all of this, I can see glaringly that specifying sex instead of gender for protected spaces is the obvious option. Female and Male toilets instead of ladies' and gents'.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

I don't share the same views as many on this thread, but I do acknowlegde there is a growing problem when it comes to segregated spaces. Surely a clear option would be to become more specific when labelling said spaces, such as male and female instead of gentlemen and ladies. Accessible (solo) facilities should be made available for anyone who isn't comfortable with the consequences of the segregated spaces. This way, everyone's gender identification is respected and the risk of grape in female spaces is reduced.

I do believe in a free world, where people should be free to live their lives as they choose (law permitting). But I do think some places make things more complicated than needs be, such as those with the "playful" terms for segregated facilities.

Isla Bryson has comitted an atrocious crime. But that does not mean that all trans women have done the same. I do not doubt that some people abuse our liberal approach to gender identification. I feel the disgust at the heinous crime Isla committed. As a woman, I know what it's like to feel unsafe (I am sure some men do also).

Looking at all of this, I can see glaringly that specifying sex instead of gender for protected spaces is the obvious option. Female and Male toilets instead of ladies' and gents'.

The trans identifying men think they are ladies/female/women/girls or whatever you put on the toilet door.

 

[Gloria Rostron]

The trans identifying men think they are ladies/female/women/girls or whatever you put on the toilet door.

Would a trans woman think that they are biologically female? I can't envisage anyone denying human biology? I respectfully listen to both sides of the argument. It's a conversation that I feel would benefit everyone. Mainstream media seems to avoid it...unsurprisingly.

 

[Ilovemusic]

Agreed, I much preferred Sindy but she did have a massive head.

I had a Tressy, could change her hair length, not so with Barbie

 

[skronkywildcat]

Watch this at 16.48 - it's only a few seconds. Love it that Victoria Wood knew what was what.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Would a trans woman think that they are biologically female? I can't envisage anyone denying human biology? I respectfully listen to both sides of the argument. It's a conversation that I feel would benefit everyone. Mainstream media seems to avoid it...unsurprisingly.

India Willoughby does. You need to read through this thread about the trans identifying men who want smear tests, get premenstrual tension and “breast feed” babies.
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@Gloria Rostron

One of many stories.

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...sing-wax-complains-gynecologist-wont-her.html

 

[maytoseptember]

Would a trans woman think that they are biologically female? I can't envisage anyone denying human biology? I respectfully listen to both sides of the argument. It's a conversation that I feel would benefit everyone. Mainstream media seems to avoid it...unsurprisingly.

I’ve seen enough TW on Twitter saying that their oestrogen levels put them in the “female” range and therefore they’re “biologically female”.

It’s a reach obviously. But a lot of them do it.

 

[exiledmanccollo]

I’ve seen enough TW on Twitter saying that their oestrogen levels put them in the “female” range and therefore they’re “biologically female”.

It’s a reach obviously. But a lot of them do it.

Also they claim to have periods — if a trans person is bleeding from a surgically created orifice they need to see a doctor pronto

 

[Metropolis]

I don't share the same views as many on this thread, but I do acknowlegde there is a growing problem when it comes to segregated spaces. Surely a clear option would be to become more specific when labelling said spaces, such as male and female instead of gentlemen and ladies. Accessible (solo) facilities should be made available for anyone who isn't comfortable with the consequences of the segregated spaces. This way, everyone's gender identification is respected and the risk of grape in female spaces is reduced.

I do believe in a free world, where people should be free to live their lives as they choose (law permitting). But I do think some places make things more complicated than needs be, such as those with the "playful" terms for segregated facilities.

Isla Bryson has comitted an atrocious crime. But that does not mean that all trans women have done the same. I do not doubt that some people abuse our liberal approach to gender identification. I feel the disgust at the heinous crime Isla committed. As a woman, I know what it's like to feel unsafe (I am sure some men do also).

Looking at all of this, I can see glaringly that specifying sex instead of gender for protected spaces is the obvious option. Female and Male toilets instead of ladies' and gents'.

Yours is an entirely rational point of view, but the problem is we now have people who do not accept the premise of the definition of male and female and those people are seeking to change what is meant by the biological and legal term ‘sex’. For example, a legal ruling in Scotland in December 2022 established that a GRC changes someone’s legal sex for all purposes under the 2010 Equality Act (For Women Scotland vs The Scottish Government). So, unfortunately, it’s not as simple as specifying sex instead of gender for protected spaces due to dispute over definitions.

Please stick around on the thread though

 

[Em_gardener]

Would a trans woman think that they are biologically female? I can't envisage anyone denying human biology? I respectfully listen to both sides of the argument. It's a conversation that I feel would benefit everyone. Mainstream media seems to avoid it...unsurprisingly.

Denying human biology is the foundation upon which their whole movement rests! They genuinely believe that they are women when they say they are women and that they are as much a woman as anyone who was born that way. They see the term biological woman as offensive and exclusionary. They think that women can have penises and men can give birth - they don't care about biology. This problem is not going to be solved by something as simple as putting female on the toilet door instead of woman - they have about as much respect for language and word definitions as they do for biology so they'll still enter. Maybe putting afab and amab on the door would work as that's their lingo!
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I think you're right about a third toilet space but I don't think it's going to be possible in every scenario e.g. small cafes. You remind me of me when I became interested in this first. I wanted to be fair to both sides and find a compromise for everyone but now I just think they're completely in the wrong and there's too much harm being done to go along with it.

 

[wiganuser]

Why not? No more ridiculous than a man identifying as a woman.

I want some fucker to wake me up of this whole gender ideology nightmare and transport me back to the 90s with normal existence of men and women ONLY.

I don't give a tit if a bloke thinks he is a woman, a unicorn or the Virgin Mary with a pansexual partner. That's their life, you do you but my beliefs still stick to the science of genetics that's been around for what, billions of years

My poor bleeping kids have to grow up in this confused world where their gender and sexuality is thrown in their faces whether they like it or not. Are people that bored in their bleeping lives that they have to shove an agenda down our throats whether we like it or not.

I sound like some old right wing person from 1950 but I DONT CARE.

The manatream media are too scared to challenge this agenda and will always side more towards the cis ideology.

 

[Weebles Wobble]

Would a trans woman think that they are biologically female? I can't envisage anyone denying human biology?

This is one of the arguments. Because they are altering the balance of their hormones they are now biologically women.

Oh - but a man can also be a biological woman even if they're not altering their hormones....no, I don't understand this but there's a lot of mental gymnastics to convince themselves that they are - literally - changing sex.

Here's an example of the Trans Period that was mentioned.

Using the women's facilities is a right of passage for many.

"Pre everything" - so no surgeries, hormones....just a fully grown man invading the women's bathroom.

This poster has access to a nonbinary bathroom but still wants to use the women's.

This poster is threatening he'll use violence if he's not allowed to access the women's bathroom.

I respectfully listen to both sides of the argument. It's a conversation that I feel would benefit everyone. Mainstream media seems to avoid it...unsurprisingly.

This was my attitude a while back. I joined this thread and also began to read posts by trans people in an effort to understand the issue.

It's a wide topic and there are people here who are far more knowledgeable than I am. But I'll share my opinion on women's spaces.

Without a doubt there are men who want to access them for their own perversions, fetishes and to dominate women.

But there's another group of men, such as the posters I've shared here (well, maybe not the one who threatens violence) who are:
a) self-obsessed with their own needs and wants and believe these over ride anyone else's.
b) simply cannot understand why a woman would want privacy and / or to be with other women only.

They've never had to deal with a period in a cramped stall, walk to the washbasin with blood on their hands, squeeze a pregnant belly past others, cope with an unexpected period due to the menopause...and that's before we think about topics such as male abuse, grape etc.

They don't have to worry that they're the only person in a confined space with a man, who may be a foot taller and much stronger than they are.

Why should they? They are men, and men don't experience any of this. And remember, they are self-obsessed. They need the euphoria and validation that they experience by being in our space. Our arguments are dismissed as transphobic and out-dated.

Not all men are predators - but they are all banned from women's spaces to keep out the ones who are.
Not all Trans women are predators - but by allowing all of them in, we are also inviting in the ones who are. Remember the poster above? Pre everything? He's just a man in a frock.

But it's also about privacy and dignity. Why should we have to tolerate men in our spaces when we are at our most vulnerable?

Although my examples have been about women's bathrooms, Trans women want access to all of our spaces. The women's wards in hospital. grape Centres and to attend group therapy sessions. Some have even insisted on having smear tests, despite this being biologically impossible.

I hope you'll stay here, and maybe do some research like I did - it opened my eyes!

 

[Cocobaby09]

Would a trans woman think that they are biologically female? I can't envisage anyone denying human biology? I respectfully listen to both sides of the argument. It's a conversation that I feel would benefit everyone. Mainstream media seems to avoid it...unsurprisingly.

Have a look at India Willoughby’s Twitter feed. Thinks he’s more female than Martina Navratilova and pretends he has a cervix.

 

[rainbowlemon]

New lows :

 

[Phil I Buster]

I’ve mentioned on other threads that I have had several miscarriages. In the absolute depths of despair, devastation and physical pain, if I had been asked what I identified as or heard non gendered language, I would have punched someone. I’m minded of Matt Walsh’s exchange with a trans woman who says he is a paramedic. Matt asks if he turned up to another trans woman who was having an emergency and was told “I’m having a miscarriage” would you examine to see if that’s correct? Would you go along with the charade? No of course not. The trans woman was stumped.

Tommys, a charity i had supported for years, amended literature to cover “birthing person” and it’s such a sucker punch. Add to it the paper above positing that trans men’s rights trump a healthy baby and I just feel sickened.

 

[MemoryLane]

Watch this at 16.48 - it's only a few seconds. Love it that Victoria Wood knew what was what.

There’s also a bit in Dinnerladies. Where Dolly says there’s always a man in the Daily Mail popping on a pair of court shoes and calling himself Deirdre! Or words to that effect!

 

[Phil Anne Throw Pee]

Have a look at India Willoughby’s Twitter feed. Thinks he’s more female than Martina Navratilova and pretends he has a cervix.

He is the most womanly woman ever - impressive since he fathered a child with his sperm. A 55 year old man who buys tampax. He is ducked in the head.

 

[DoraMaar]

These employers clearly know what a woman is (I can't read the full details)

 

[terfette]

Entitled, delusional woman. Her daughter is 18, not 8, an adult who shouldn't need mum to fight her battles.
I am sad for that poor girl, actually, and I hope she'll start liking herself for herself and not because of made up identities.

duck me. When I was 18 I had an ectopic pregnancy and a gynaecologist telling me I was exaggerating the pain (it had ruptured, I was bleeding heavily internally,as I didn’t know I was pregnant at all) and “probably just have clamydia like most 18 year olds” and I didn’t need mummy there to tell him off. I’d hate to see how these people would react to someone actually treating them badly/disrespecting them.

 

[Regina Fellangi]

Would a trans woman think that they are biologically female? I can't envisage anyone denying human biology? I respectfully listen to both sides of the argument. It's a conversation that I feel would benefit everyone. Mainstream media seems to avoid it...unsurprisingly.

Check out India Willoughby's twitter post yesterday about "being more female than Martina Navratilova" and you'll see just how many Trans women/biological men think they're exactly the same as biological women. I'm very surprised you think these people don't deny human biology. We're seeing it all over the place every single day. I can think of multiple occasions, transwomen going to see a gynaecologist demanding a cervical smear, breastfeeding man to name just a few.