Lucy Aeroplane
VIP Member
I don’t join in with this thread much, and don’t do any real life GC stuff, as I’m not terfy enough for the proper terfs (I believe in a very small proportion of people being “tru trans”) but I’m way too terfy for the TRA side (because I recognise that there are numerous cases where predators have adopted a trans identity to get easy access to predate on women and children and traumatise them, and I know the importance of single sex spaces to allow women to thrive in patriarchal society). But I’m adding my 2p worth here today because you’re coming across as increasingly disingenuous. It’s not an “echo chamber” here, it’s a bunch of people from a variety of backgrounds (including other gay men!) who all recognise the mission creep that’s causing harm to women, children, and homosexual people of either sex. You and others like you are just ignoring us when we’re explaining what the problems are and why we think it’s important to maintain single sex spaces and activities. You’re just ignoring us.And I know this thread is a bit of an echo chamber. I usually try and sit on my fingers when reading stuff I disagree with here, as I know it'll lead to a pile-on, but sometimes I can't help myself! I'll stop now, though.
It’s plain rude, if nothing else, to refuse to listen to us, to actually hear what we’re saying, when we’re earnestly sharing our experiences and concerns. Rude to dismiss those concerns as an echo chamber.
Maybe you could think about why so many different types of people have the same opinions on this? It’s not because we’re ignorant - quite the opposite, I’d suggest that many of us probably know far more about the dangers of predatory males for example, than those who are determined to pretend there is no possible danger in eliminating boundaries for women and children.
It’s also disconcerting for me - a bisexual woman who’s always had gay and lesbian friends, who’s seen the abuse they’ve been subjected to, even from their own families - that so many people want to handwave away conversations about the inherent homophobia in so much of the trans movement. It’s just not right to try and guilt or gaslight homosexual people into accepting people with opposite-sex bodies as potential partners. And please don’t pretend for a moment that isn’t happening because I’ll come back with a hundred links - when we’re at the stage where there are instructional videos for gay men to learn to eat pussy, when lesbians are being taught mindfulness techniques to learn to receive penetration with a “female” penis, then surely even the most tone deaf trans activist needs to accept there’s a problem here? It’s sick, in my opinion, I grew up in the 80s and 90s and 2000s, and gay and lesbian people were finally gaining the right to simply be gay and lesbian and get on with their lives. As a teenager and in my twenties I joined my friends at Pride to support them in trying to get that acceptance and understanding (and you know what, even my working-class observant-Christian parents were supportive of me going to Pride, they would give me the money for my one-day travelcard before I was working/could afford my own train tickets) - and that hard won right is being shat all over by the trans movement insisting that males are women now and females are men now. I know lesbian uni students who literally don’t go out to anything social at uni now because every single time, they get hit on by males larping as lesbians and they don’t know how to deal with it without getting cancelled in their social circles. The harm being done is real, in those cases to young women who don’t yet have the confidence to say no.
And I would need to do a whole separate post to go through the harm being done to young autistic women and survivors of SA by this; I’m autistic/a survivor and would 100% have been sucked into it if I was a teenager, and I’ve cried so many times reading accounts from detransitioners because I know full well that could easily have been me, so I really really feel their agony.
It’s awful and it’s even more awful that there are people actively pretending there’s no harm in any of this.
This thread is a wide cross section of people, some of us old school lefties (I’m in that bracket fwiw), some of us pretty much tories, some of us libertarian, some of us authoritarian, some of us completely apolitical. There are mums, dads, child free people, grandparents, aunts, uncles. There are straight, bi, gay, and lesbian people. This thread - and gender critical dialogue generally - is not populated by people who think the same and won’t talk to anyone they disagree with. It’s populated by people who see where the trans activists’ focus has taken us and who are alarmed, not least by the lack of discussion and debate on the fundamental issues that has been permitted until very recently. We need to be allowed to talk about it and about why it’s important to acknowledge that trans activism isn’t some harmless movement.
So with the greatest respect to you, if you’re going to continually post on this thread from the opposite viewpoint to the majority of posters, at least give us the respect of being open and honest about your stance, instead of being disingenuous and sealioning about it all. I have agreed with some things you’ve posted elsewhere, including on the LGB thread, so please don’t make the mistake of thinking I’m anti-you - I just don’t like falseness. I don’t think many of us who post or lurk on this thread do. Please just be more real and genuine here and you’ll get more respect, even if it is by way of a ferocious disagreement. If you’re confident in your right-ness then you’ll have no problem defending it.
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I pretty much can count the number of internet spaces that allow women to speak against gender ideology freely and without censure on one hand.
