Gender Discussion #35

[Phil Anne Throw Pee]

Drag is FOUL. It's the equivalent of blackface, caricaturing and degrading and hideously reductive.

I am sick to fucking death of being gaslit and being referred to as a 'person with ovaries'. I am a WOMAN. An adult human female. If some blokes want to call themselves women and wear dresses and lippie aka Eddie Izzard, they can fill their boots but they can fuck off out of my safe spaces. If transwomen want safety then men can accommodate them because that's what they are - men. This constant bullshit and justification and 'not all trans people are dangerous' drivel is making my shit itch. No one is saying they are but self ID is allowing predators to slip through the net. The likes of Sturgeon should hang their heads in shame for catering to what is nothing more than a fucking fantasy.

 

[DoraMaar]

It's getting worse ...



ETA - this comment

 

[Tiare Tahiti]

I really think the whole argument that not all men are predatory or violent so we should not worry about giving them access to womens safe spaces is a red herring. So they are "nice" men? So what? It still doesn't mean I feel comfortable sharing single sex facilities with one.

Absolutely! I love men. I know many amazing men who are no threat to anyone. Without adding any details, I also regularly spend time in certain shared spaces, and it doesn't bother me at all.

Nevertheless, women need single sex spaces.

Also, I am a tall athletic woman. I am experienced in self-defence, and I consider myself pretty strong physically. My husband is thin, not very sporty or muscular, and rarely works out. We once decided to "fight" playfully. I went all in, trying to defeat him with all my strength. At first I was doing well. Then he decided to get serious. In a few seconds he had me in a position where I couldn't free myself. This is a kind, sweet man, and he immediately let me go when I asked him to stop. But these few seconds were terrifying. I suddenly realised that I am not as strong as I thought I was. I realised even the most untrained man is likely to be able to overpower me physically in a matter of seconds. It hit me like a ton of bricks. I felt incredibly vulnerable all of a sudden.

We don't like to think of this. And we're being told from every corner that women can do what men can do, that there's no difference, and that may well be in many instances, but when it comes to physical strength there is a huge difference. As biological women we are and remain at a huge physical disadvantage to biological men. And they remain a threat.

 

[mindlessness]

It is entertaining seeing a certain user respond to people who answer their question with an angry face.

How dare we understand biology! How dare we believe in single sex spaces! How dare we think putting children on irreversible puberty blockers is problematic! How dare were kick back at the idea that lipstick, heeps and a bow make someone a woman!

 

[Sweetcouchpotato]

I guess the difference is that I approach this from, why would you risk leaving so many transgender people behind or in a place of mental decline which could lead to them taking their own life, why take the risk in that? Everyone seems to only deal in absolutes here. Nothing is black and white.

My opinions on trans people really comes from a place of compassion because I think trans people are mentally ill so they definitely need therapy and support for their delusional thinking. It is a delusion to think you can feel that your sex is wrong or that you're really the opposite sex, as much as it's a delusion to think you're Napoleon or an animal. What happens now is cruel - creating a myth that they can really *be* the opposite sex, that sexual partners will never know, that they can be real biological "mothers" or "fathers", and of course that doesn't happen. Helping them cope with their mental illness is much better than irreversibly mutilating their bodies and still never being a real man or a real woman. People hyper obsess over this stuff and it's just toxic and futile, and the Kind Thing to do is actually be honest and help them accept reality.

Look, like the friend you mentioned, I'm intersex. I was assigned female at birth (the only time those words are valid imo) and have lived my entire life through thar perspective, as a daughter, sister, wife, mother. My body grew a vagina in my mum's womb and i grew my own breasts as a teenager. My medical care, education, employment and interaction with the state have all been mediated by my perceived femaleness. When I was sexually harassed, assaulted and raped it was because the men who did it saw me as a woman.

But even so, I can't say I "feel like a woman". I imagine I do because until I was 20 I'd only ever been told I was a girl/woman, and if ever I compare myself to others I don't perceive any connection to men or masculinity. The reality is I have a mixture of sexual characteristics because my chromosomes are XY. I can only say I feel like myself. Isn't that all any of us can say? Why do the rest of us need to play along with an unhealthy, obsessive delusion to the point that leaders of countries and huge organisations like the NHS or BBC start pretending science and biology and the evidence of our own eyes no longer exist?

 

[Skyline89]

My 7 year old daughter does an activity at the weekends. She told me yesterday that there is a girl who goes to the activity (who also happens to go to her school but is in a different year) and she has to use the boys toilets at school but she can use the girls toilets at the activity. So I asked her if the child was a boy or a girl, and she said 'B' is a girl and if anyone says she shouldn't use the girls toilets at the activity they will have to speak to the manager for 5 minutes.

I am so angry that my daughter is being actively taught to disbelieve what she is seeing, and if she does question it she will essentially be in time-out and be told what is 'right' by management. My daughter is a conformist and hates getting in trouble so will do what she is told, but I'm so angry that from a young age she is being taught false truths by adults who are supposed to keep her safe during her activity. Part of the reason she does this activity was to boost her confidence, now I'm questioning whether or not to continue it.

This is probably more of a vent than anything, but I am genuinely so upset that we are in the position where children are being actively taught to not trust their instincts.

 

[Mugglewump]

Um, but how do we know which are "safe transwomen" and which are men when it's apparently down to a feeling that can't be seen?

Let one man in, you let them all in.
You say yourself you understand the fear so why do you want this?

Also, what about privacy, dignity, fairness?
I don't care if the other men are lovely men, even men known to me, I don't want to be dealing with rustling sanitary products/period leaks or having to clean their piss off the seat thank you very much.

If you want this, campaign for third spaces and you use them.

That's just toilets too, what about, say female rape crisis centers?
Hard done by transwomen should be able to use them too?
Women shouldn't mind talking about being raped by a man, surrounded by men?

Slippery slope and I'm not giving an inch.

 

[Deeznutslol]

They always have ADHD, don't they.

It is bizarre to me that people have fought to NOT be defined by their medical condition, yet with this lot, it's the first thing they'll tell you about. To the extent of wearing a fucking sunflower lanyard saying they have adhd. Because of course you do.

Lmao any of these jokers who describes ADHD as a fucking ‘superpower’ most likely don’t have it. ADHD aint a superpower, it nearly ruined my life.

 

[Deeznutslol]

Another man writing about his fantasies and pretending they have happened… how original…

Literally, they’re so fucking bait, they come on here saying they like the most filthy, rancid things that literally no woman would EVER enjoy doing and expect people on a thread which is 99% female to believe them

 

[Glortard]

Going to read throughout the thread still I swear, just thought I should reply to this.

I'm not a trans rights activist in the slightest, I've only tried educating myself recently because its become such a large debate and like I said I know someone (not a friend, just through a friend) that came out as trans at 50 recently. I wanted to answer my questions and fears by reading.

Anyway in reply to this!

I think we as humans are never one size fits all so transgender women are all different in every regard. In a female rape survivor group I'm sure they could assess the situation and try help the woman who had gone through trauma. You are in way of asking that question implying that transgender woman is there to prey, or that the women in the group would feel uneasy because of it. Trauma is a very complex thing, I have gone through an experience in my life that would bring me close to that topic. But the conversation should be had in the group about people's comfort and then then the transgender woman who I assume is a rape survivor should be given the necessary help they need to confront their trauma.

I would have to read up on Jamie Wallis as I am not aware of them but again, I don't judge all transgender people on one person. Like I don't judge all women and their morals off of you, my mother or any one person.

the vast majority of men that attend rape crisis or similar groups are either predators or sick in the head.

it is a fact that survivors {female) of sexual assault can experience PTSD or stop trauma recovery by the presence of a biological male. That is why for decades we have had female only staff.

if buffalo bill wants to talk about his trauma he can campaign for a 3rd space. But they don’t and all the evidence are that they sit silently there not talking and simply making woman uncomfortable.

they are complete scum

and 10 years ago Jamie Wallis would have been ridiculed as the cheating scumbag he is

 

[nothanksbabes]

The crutch there is you won’t ever considering transgender women anything other than men and for that reason as men can be dangerous, all transgender people don’t deserve respect.

By all accounts I March for womens rights to protection in todays society, I’ve stood their with other women screaming for those protections. But I’ve used gender neutral toilets everywhere, I’ve never felt unsafe because they are mixed.

Your fear of men and the capability of a bad one is disrupting you from giving compassion to people who just want to live their lives, not rape people. But I’m sure you let men into your home, to share a bathroom in your house, to even enter in a relationship with one if you’re aren’t gay. Not all trans people are going to try and prey on you. Go after the men who are, not the community as a whole. A young transgender woman, who before transitioning was a gay man, hoping to live a life without discrimination and looks on every corner, just wanting to find a man for themselves. Do they deserve the category of predators you are putting them in

You could have condensed this post down to "not all men" and saved yourself five minutes.

Also we're starting from a false premise here. Am I ever going to think a man is a woman just because he tells me so? No. Does that mean I think men aren't deserving of respect? Of course not. Respect doesn't equal unfettered access to single sex spaces or my participation in someone else's self image. I simply don't believe a man can identify into an oppressed group any more than I think a white person can identify as black just because they feel like it.

I'm baffled that "you just hate men" seems to be the best argument someone can bring here though. As if feminists haven't been fielding this forever.

 

[nothanksbabes]

Exactly, I cannot even believe we are still arguing about this "not all men" thing. Regardless of that, what is very clear, is the issue is that the majority of men do sit back and do nothing, don't call out sexist "jokes" or behaviour, a stark example being the police colleagues of Sarah Everard murderer. Sorry for the OT it just really annoys me

I think the Wayne Couzens/Sarah Everard comparison is a good one.

Remember the outrage at the police, and the "you can't tar all police with the same brush!" reply, and the liberal feminists asking (rightly for a change) how are we supposed to tell the difference between the Wayne Couzenses and the nice coppers? They all just look like police officers to us.

I'm really baffled as to why they can't apply this logic to this debate. I don't think all transgender people are predators any more than I think all police officers are, but they're both scenarios which can be used by predators to gain access to their victims. For me, the number of women I'll accept as collateral damage in the pursuit of being nice and not offending the ones who don't have bad intentions is zero.

Apparently though, for the TWAW Self ID brigade there is an acceptable number of women and girls they'll risk for the sake of ideology.

 

[maytoseptember]

The thing is @Gloria Rostron we’ve been over the “third space” argument a million times.

1. You really think all workplaces, restaurants, shopping malls, public spaces generally have the money and the inclination and the space to conjure up a third category of toilet for people? Nope, they don’t.

2. Trans women in particular don’t want a third space, they want the women’s (and the validation that comes with using a women’s space).

 

[weeweegie]

I was speaking with a guy I hadn’t seen in ages the other day. We were talking about violence against women in our workplaces as we have both noticed an increase. I was saying we need a policy and a campaign that highlights this. I said it’s important that we emphasise that it’s violence against women by men. And if the language isn’t clear then the message will be lost. I wasn’t sure how he’d react to that but praise be! I found myself a male TERF He’s an older guy but very knowledgeable about all these issues. He told me he has a nephew who used to be his niece who has had full surgery that has gone wrong and they are now in an awful state he says when she was a little girl he had a feeling she’d grow up to be a lesbian. You could never have predicted she’d want to be a man but here we are.

 

[Jayceedove]

Suedoyou - I can tell you straight from a lifetime of experience BEING transsexual that Blanchard is pretty much right.

In fact the NHS knew most of what he formally set down at least a decade before de did that.

I was in clinics in the early1970s and an AGP was there then. I was chased by one who literally stalked me and moved home 40 miles to live in the same village 'by chance'. He wanted me to meet him in a park at night. I was a decade post op by that point - something he wrote me many letters even sent to the hospital in London up to the day I had surgery trying to talk me out of it as he thought it was 'icky' to not have a penis.

Now a decade on after never hearing from him again thankfully he wanted to date me after seeing my photo in the local paper as I was doing something at a local school given my past teaching experience - not as a teacher nor anything to do with my being TS which the paper neither knew nor mentioned but working with the kids on an arts project.

He had chickened out of all psychiatric assessment as he told me and a young girl I befriended in the clinic who was a drug addct that his thrill from cross dressing was a much stronger drug than any she took.

When I was 'found' by him then I was in a stable relationship with my boyfriend, We had been blessed by a priest as we could not legally marry. We both got jobs, lived with his family for a while and saved up money to buy our own house. Aa many people do.

I obviously did not go anywhere near that creepy man in the park with what is obvious to me now raging AGP as I realised only when I later read about Blanchard's work.

So take it from me AGP is very real. And it creates a desire to use people as props in the fantasy that seeks a sexual high. These people need deep therapy but run a mile from it and deny it exists. Whilst revealing it does in everyhing they do.

I luckily learned this early enough to be wary because I had so much therapy and got the chance to see what was happening around me and when long enough post transition able to be well aware that going into a park at night to meet a creepy man was not remotely sensible or safe. When you transition young you soon learn why women are so concerned about men. And I still get chills every now and then as these days I am alone - my partner died too young - and this creepy man may still be out there and know where I live. One reason I stay anonymous.

Think about it. Whatever causes you to be trans there are just really two sexual orientations. You either fancy men or women. Or occasionally both I suppose. And many more men fancy women than men. And that is clearly true of transgender men too. The split is about 93% V 7% I gather and the big majority if not all of the 93% are AGP. Almost everything they say and do confirms it. Including telling you there is no such thing.

HSTS who have been chased by them know it as I am far from alone. We are common prey, More tragically so do far too many wives they married and children they sired before 'working out' in late middle age they were 'really' women so had to transition then.

Denial is the river running through transgenderism. And whilst - yes - probably some younger cases today are captured by a new kind of gender identity expression that has its own risks - at root with adult transitioners there are HSTS and there are AGP and you do not need to be Einstein to spot one from the other in the wild as they behave very differently.

 

[katyazamo]

Anyone seen this?

Jason Isaacs voices further support for trans comic who stripped on Channel 4

'I just thought she was funny.'

metro.co.uk

What a disgusting statement.

"Just like you actually do know the difference between a late night TV comedy show and a traumatic private encounter on the street or in the home."

Good of him to assume that being flashed is a "private encounter on the street". It often isn't. Flashing happens in broad daylight.

By all means, put out a statement saying you thought Jordan was funny and leave it there. That's his opinion. But this statement tells you exactly what he thinks of women. He has absolutely no right to speak on behalf of women or anyone who has experienced sexual assault.

"You’re just angry. And confused."

I'm so fucking sick of men (or anyone, really) assuming I am confused, don't understand, and need educated. I understand it all perfectly fine. Stop fucking gaslighting women. Oh it's a joke, it was satire, don't you understand? It was a woman who got HER penis out, don't you get it? There are so many other issues going on in today's world, don't you think you should move on from this? I can't stand this BS.

 

[nothanksbabes]

Why is a man going out in makeup and typically feminine clothing "brave"? Men really have to do so little for a pat on the back.

One of the most telling things from reading countless trans widows stories, aside from how all the patterns of behaviour are the same, is how the "I'm a woman now" nonsense only ever extends to lingerie, clothes, makeup and sexual subservience (because of course they think women are just sexually submissive holes for dicks), but never to picking up the bulk of the housework, childcare, caring for elderly relatives, all the labour done primarily by women.

 

[DoraMaar]

How it started - and how it's going

 

[weeweegie]

This ‘gender euphoria’ they talk about, do they just mean they are turned on? I mean WTAF. Why would you be euphoric? It just seems so creepy to me.

About saccone joly thread, surely most people on there think the whole thing is madness? He’s a little boy, let him wear what he wants, sure, but changing his name? Calling him she/her? I will never get over how wrong and abusive that is to that child. Not to mention really insulting. That child has an effeminate side as many boys do. Why can’t we embrace that! As I’ve said a zillion times (let’s all say it together). There is no one way to be a boy! There is no one way to be a girl! Louder for those in that back!!

 

[VC10]

@SueDoyou - the vast, vast majority of transwomen keep their penis. Like 95+%. The men we are talking about on this thread don’t hate their male genitalia enough to remove it. They aren’t going for a GRA.

I agree- and as such, insist, for example, on using Women's toilets, where young girls or older Women are using it, and who also might need privacy due to menstruation, etc - and won't get it with a Male cocked trans in there with them. Why the hell is this OK? I don't want an 8 year old girl washing her hands next to a Man with his cock in his hands, which will happen, because that's what most want.
Why is it OK to have an elderly Woman on a ward who has lost her husband of 60 years ( perhaps the only man who has ever seen her naked) to be confronted by a man's cock on a trans who has insisted on joining the Woman's ward in the hospital & who is getting changed next to her?
Or a Woman or girl who has been raped having to sit with a Male trans sitting opposite her who insists on being treated the same as a Woman .

I say - Don't be so fucking stupid.