Gender Discussion #27

[eyespybs123]

You have my sympathy. I don't know how old your daughter is but I've got a daughter of 22 who is on board with all this crap too although fortunately she's happy being female. We've had a few heated discussions which have gone nowhere. Now I just don't talk to her about it. Luckily we get on pretty well as long as this subject doesn't come up.

They think that they are being kind and we are being mean so it's difficult to reason with them. I told my daughter that in the future she will have her eyes opened because she lives a pretty sheltered life at the moment and doesn't see the reality of how women will be affected.

So I've said my piece and that's all I can do. I probably won't be around when reality hits home for this generation but one day these young women will regret giving all their spaces away.

If it helps anyone at 22 I was very TWAW and in the past had definitely spoken down to my mum about gender etc, to 'educate' her... But I got fully peaked on this thread and completely saw the light (I'm now 24). Hopefully with everything going on in the crazy world of GC v TRAs it's clear to see the 'right' side!

 

[GladiatorReady]

The guy without the glasses looks like the cat that caught the canary.




I love how these people are all often "ACAB, defund the police, abolish all prisons" but are more than happy to have the police help them opress uppity women.

 

[GladiatorReady]

One of the worst takes I've ever seen.

Also, a lot of them aren't on blockers and, even if they are, they can still get a woman pregnant. I remember reading on r/actuallesbians a couple of years ago - a US teenager became pregnant after the transwoman promised her that it couldn't happen. The transwoman instantly left and she ended up having an abortion. Which would likely not be possible these days.

 

[judgejohndeed]

Idk how it’s the fault of TERFs. To me TRAs are more to blame, who spent years now calling us womb havers and menstruators etc? Tying themselves in mental knots to prove it’s biologically possible, actually, for a man to be a woman because he says so. It’s literally no surprise that after dehumanising a group for so long that group’s rights are going to be lost. They contributed to this.

 

[klarakluckbag]

I work in the NHS and have to see insulting terms like "pregnant person" every day. Fortunately, my colleagues think as I do, that it's just ridiculous posturing from management, who should know bettter, and who should have the balls to stand up to this crap.

It's funny, but as one or two of us began to tentatively talk about it, the floodgates seem to have opened. It's as though everyone is relieved to actually be able to say what they think. I can only speak for my team of 8 colleagues, but I can say that there isn't a single one of us who is on board with the ideology. My colleagues are all female, and range in age from mid-twenties to mid-fifties.

 

[Vanelope]

When I see older people with Down’s syndrome still being looked after by elderly parents, maybe in their 70s and 80s. Often by the seaside. My heart aches for them - how worried they must be about their child coping if anything happens to them. No doubt they love them very much, but it’s a hard road and I can’t judge anyone’s decisions when faced with that future.

 

[petitspois]

If a trans man is a man, as they say, why should they have any opinion on womens issues?

Every other bloody man likes to have their say about things that are nothing to do with them so why not let the trans ones have a pop too?

 

[maytoseptember]

Six hundred thousand pounds! And that’s just the DFE Just imagine the millions that Stonewall rake in from organisations up and down the country: big and small, public and private. It must surely be the most successful racket of all time? And what do they spend it on? Recruiting mentally fragile people who struggle to read and write, and need their mums and support dogs into (no doubt highly paid) senior roles?

 

[GladiatorReady]

If you're on radfem Tumblr you may have seen a very nasty case of a young woman being "doxed" and repeatedly threatened / told to kill herself by TIMs allegedly just for blocking someone (who, by his own admission, had messaged her telling her to "suck his girldick.") It is horrifying, nothing new but hits home for me because we are both East Asian. This woman is Korean, it's not bad enough that in her own country she faces numerous injustices for being a woman, but now she's got men living halfway across the world threatening her and encouraging people to find her and rape or kill her at her home or workplace

I came to see if anyone had mentioned this - the messages she's getting are horrific. She's had her phone number and address extensively doxxed and they've also posted all her info into local MRA groups.

It must be scary to be JKR and go through this type of hate - never mind your everyday 20-21 year old without JKR's level of security and support.





Special shout-out to the comment saying:

"I don't believe the accusations and I don't believe she's a terf HOWEVER it's necessary to make an example out of her for any REAL terfs that might be in the fandom that this can and will happen to them if need be"

 

[DoraMaar]

I think a lot of this stuff is performative. And that’s why a lot of businesses and charities are doing it - because they think it makes them LOOK better and ‘inclusive’
They don’t really care about actually being inclusive (eg do they give a shit about disabilities or poor people? Probably not)

Also I reckon a lot of the trans activism and ‘be kind’ stuff is white middle class people.

It is performative - but not everwhere

 

[Apple In My Pie]

I just saw this post on Twitter; U.K. based. Scribbled out the image and username as it’s not from a blue ticker. Not so much the tweet itself but the comments and quotes that came after it - all the typical ‘TERF island’, ‘trans healthcare is important’, ‘the U.K. is awful for this‘

And it’s like, well yes, healthcare is important. But if you go back 1023 days that’s September 2019. Six months or so later the pandemic hit. And I hate how everything has become this echo chamber of ‘this harms trans people’, as if they were waiting so long JUST BECAUSE they were trans, as if the waiting lists aren’t stretched enough, as if NO ONE ELSE is waiting so long for healthcare. Shit, I know someone who had been put under CAHMS at the start of the pandemic, waited a year to be seen and was then told they would have to go onto another waiting list to go into adult services, and they are currently still waiting. I know another lady who due to the pandemic died from lung cancer. By the time restrictions eased and it was discovered, the cancer was too far gone to be treatable.

It IS shitty. It’s sad that a person felt they had to take their own life. But the reason behind the waiting lists is not inherently transphobic. And to say it is is selfish and obtuse. It really frustrates me! Like transpeople are the centre of the universe! One would also suggest that it wasn’t gender affirming healthcare this person needed but rather mental health support (again, in an overstretched NHS, from where?)

Sorry this is completely unrelated to the current discussion, also I don’t comment here as much as I like because I’m still working out what my stance is, and I am not as eloquent as I’d like, just every time I see comments and discussions go around in circles like this it fucks me right off and this is one of the few spaces I can vent w/o the fear of being ostracised as an evil stinking TERF.

 

[Ekathrina]

The reason ‘those feminists’ who have been accused of Islamophobia were talking about Muslim men in the first place was because of things that have happened here, in the UK. Things that have happened because both the police and the local communities the men came from turned a blind eye to the rape and sexual trafficking of girls from poor and underprivileged backgrounds, some as young as 12, some with mental health issues, many of them in the care system. The police and social services initially blamed the girls because of ‘cultural sensitivities’ and because victim blaming of women and girls is widely accepted in some police forces.
All this other stuff about what is or isn’t happening in other countries is derailment, and just another way of shutting up women by implying they are ‘phobic’ or bigots.

 

[petitspois]

I know some wonderful men but, my god, a good proportion of them are pretty shit aren't they?

 

[CookieZippy]

Boris the Bigot!

 

[sheleg]

I can’t get my head around why so many people, including feminists, refuse to condemn abusive behaviour from Muslim men. It isn’t islamophobic to talk about it.

I’m Jewish, and I don’t believe it’s antisemitic to point out that many ultra orthodox women are treated poorly by their husbands and men in general.

It’s just facts. We can’t help unless we face up to them.

People are too scared of being called a ‘phobe these days. It’s like the scarlet letter of old. Or the label “communist” under McCarthyism.

 

[Notworthy]

They could be identifying as disabled.

There is an overlap between autogynephilia and Bodily Integrity Identity Disorder, in which males, for sexual reasons, “identify” as amputees, wheelchair users, blind or deaf. Sometimes their fetish is so strong that they try to actually give themselves these disabilities for real.

I did say to the Manager I'm suspicious of the claim that they're partially sighted. I said something along the lines of if they think they're a woman it's not a massive reach for them to also be identifying as blind tooNo doubt I'm the talk of the office but I said to him I'm a terf and I'll die on that hill. I'm going to email my MP. This can't go on, it's not fair that staff have to deal with these entitled, fucked up arseholes. There needs to be clear guidance.

 

[Notworthy]

Those of you who are not sure how to 'woman' properly should follow this guy's advice

Dan all these years I've been womaning wrong, thank god there's men like this to mansplain how to be a woman

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

I reserved judgement a bit re: KJK because I’d heard allegations of racism, homophobia and I’m not sure how I feel about her engaging in right wing media. As for the racism, I saw the screenshots Womans Place UK posted of the alleged racism today, and found the whole thing ludicrous. She didn’t label every Muslim sexist or anything, she just spoke about legitimate issues within Islam and the Middle East - it’s offensive to deny that there are issues as far as I’m concerned. Every culture seems to have their own specific brand of misogyny and they function and uphold those structures in different ways - we need to define the issues in order to deal with them. Overall I’m very grateful for KJK; she’s an excellent communicator, and her points are logical, concise and easy to engage with.

As for teaming up with right wingers, I’m a bit ambivalent. On the one hand it seems to make sense to team together for a common goal when your views are aligned on something, especially when there’s so much to lose and legal protections are at stake. On the other hand, I don’t believe for a second that the aim of right wingers is like my own (to protect women) and fear that helping them get any momentum could lead to worse consequences for women as they try to tighten the definition of a woman and our rights in a way that might erase actual women and will restrict our freedoms.

If the left-wing media won't cover this, what is anyone left to do? Bindel writes for Spiked and Spectator. Moore writes for the Telegraph. Joyce, Glinner, Phillimore and more have appeared on Doyle on GB News. I think it's unfair (and also hypocritical) for those women to blame KJK for going on the TV shows etc that will platform her.

Historically on the KJK vs WPUK, I think there was a belief earlier on (before I peaked) that if we were 'nice' and said things like 'of course we'll use pronouns, and of course we'll be understanding' that the media etc would listen, that they couldn't be slandered as transphobes. So they probably saw KJK coming out and being 'no, it's a bloke' and being very blunt and firm, they were probably very nervous about this maybe playing badly and putting the cause back.

But what we've seen in the intervening years is that it doesn't matter how 'nice' or nuanced etc you are, they'll go for you no matter what. JKR bent over backward in her letter to be considerate but they still went for her. I think KJK is absolutely right about the language and the pronouns. If you talk about transgirls being barred from womens football, people think that girls are being barred from football. Not some 17 year old boy. Newspaper headlines shoudln't read 'trans player barred from women's team', it should read 'male barred from women's team.' On her no-compromise position, I would say that you don't compromise with the thief come to rob your house. You don't say 'well you can have the TV.' Or I said to someone I know reccently on this 'an inch was given and a mile has been taken so now you don't get the inch.'

 

[Blond3g1rl]

Doesn’t matter if you look like a man, smell like a man, sound like a man, you are still a woman and the patriarchy will get you.

 

[Ekathrina]

It’s interesting that it’s more often young girls that are sucked into this madness, but I guess not that surprising considering social conditioning. I also think girls are socialised to be more cliquey - whereas it’s not the case with boys as much, although it does happen.
My son was gradually pushed out of his friends group because several of them became ‘trans’ (although they seemed to make no physical attempt to look any different - they just adopted different names and a bucketload of victimhood). He tried not to antagonise them but he’s got autistic traits and found it really difficult to remember the name changes and the pronouns and to be honest I think he just wasn’t very good at keeping up the pretence that he didn’t find it all a bit silly. This all happened gradually over lockdown but once things started opening up again, surprise, surprise, he stopped being invited to any of their meet-ups and now they don’t talk to him at all.