Gender Discussion #22

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And note how telling it is trans often seem to refer to themselves as girls even when they are old enough to be most girls' grandads.
This exactly. Like Eddie Izzard saying he’s in ‘girl mode’. A 60 year old man saying that is just disgusting and creepy to me. I’m a woman in my 40s and the days of referring to myself as a girl are long gone. It is very telling. At one point not too long ago this would have been a red flag. But now it’s celebrated. I cannot understand it.

Also, the Keir Starmer thing has bothered me so much today. It actually makes he feel uneasy in my own skin that a middle aged man is telling us all what a woman is. It’s offensive and just argghhh!! Can’t describe fully how it makes me feel. It makes me shudder and want to scream duck off Keir!!
 
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Excuse my ignorance but how does it work for using changing areas/toilets when a child is transgender? Especially as they grow older? Do they use the male/female toilets or would they use the additional needs one?
I work in a hospital and we occasionally have transgender patients and usually try to give them a single room however this is not always possible and you then have the dilemma of placing them in a four bedded room with three other people who are the same sex as them but they may be a female and the rest are men or vice versa. X
Debbie that I mentioned earlier is a teacher and I think had a hand in the policies on this. It must be hard to balance needs and likely would make sense to let the child use staff toilets to avoid concerns.

I trained as a teacher in the early 70s but had to leave when I transitioned mid course as it was agreed - and understood by me sadly but realistically - that there might be concerns over my being employed in a school - though I had, of course, taught in schools during training.

Of course, there was no prospect half a century ago of children transitioning. Now it is much more complex Not sure there is one solution for all.

I know a bit more about hospitals - though not recently. The only time since transition when I had to be in hospital for an operation was 40 years ago. I did talk it over with them pre transition and the rule was then- as far as I recall them saying - that if you were post op they put you on a general ward. Or they tried to find a single room but these were much more scarce back then. I was living with my 'husband' (see earlier) then and he visited, of course, and I imagine they assumed it would have looked rather more disruptive on a male ward.

Back then, of course, transsexuals were very rare and nobody was on guard looking out expecting to see them like now I imagine. So this was not an everday event. Trans activists have done a great job of making themselves visible. So today it will be much harder to get right.

If they were pre op. Or what we would now call transgender and often no op (far less likely then) I think they had to decide case by case and apply common sense. At least that is what I recall being told when one of the young nurses came for a chat as she was curious and had never met anyone like me before and wanted to ask all about it. Which I was happy to do as the NHS had helped me. It was good to give something back.

This must be a much bigger problem today but as far as I seem to have read out there it looks like self ID patients with male anatomy might now sometimes get put on female wards. I read a press story a while ago about an elderly transgender person being called a female name by nurses and how those in the ward got a bit fretful (understandably) when a visitor came and kept referring to them by a male name.

Think I saw somewhere a policy review was going on. Which looks necessary as this is a whole lot more complicated than it once was. Hopefully it will revert to common sense but these days who can say as that appears in short supply.

JKR is slaying on Twitter again btw.
The trans activists annoying her was a pretty dumb move if anyone knows her tenacity. As she will be relentless. But then transgender and dumb move must be side by side in the dictionary. If ever there was a movement bent on self destruction this is it. Yet they appear the only ones not seeing this.
 
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The trans activists annoying her was a pretty dumb move if anyone knows her tenacity. As she will be relentless. But then transgender and dumb move must be side by side in the dictionary. If ever there was a movement bent on self destruction this is it. Yet they appear the only ones not seeing this.
They actively peak people by the way they behave.

If the trans lobby was advocating for better third spaces, for better healthcare standards, for better mental health support nobody but the most right wing and prejudiced would have a problem. But they've decided instead to campaign to insert themselves into female and LGB spaces and to stop research and eradicate all healthcare safeguarding.
 
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Skronkywildcat. I do agree that empathy is in short supply and I may even seem to lack it for those out there wanting self ID to become law.

Hopefully I do not. Whatever has caused them to be trans I just want them to have the best options available not the presumption that the only way out is to change their entire life in a way that might be ultimately necessary but should never be the first step.

In this situation you become incredibly self centred - selfish even. I am so glad I went through this in an era as a child - 50s and 60s. - when family mattered and stuck together. We went through it as a family and as such I had restraint from just doing only what I wanted. How it should be.

Blockers - for instance - were science fiction then. So never a factor. In fact I was given the opposite. Booster male hormones. As an early attempt to make puberty kick me into 'normality'. One of many different things we tried as a family over years. Tjhey all failed. But I was willing to try anything. I would today likely have taken the easy way out - child transition and blockers - 100% it was what I wanted. And likely would have made my life better. So I feel a bit mean questioning if kids like me should have these today because of the risk they might be given inappropriately or the long term consequences we may not yet know.

They make such a huge difference to the lives of these people IF they are one of the few who are transsexual and this is going to be the path for their whole life. But I can see that if it is nine tines more likely they would be given to the wrong people and effectively stop any chance of a fully normal life for them then it would be selfish to just accept the mistakes as collateral damage to help you.

And the one thing that characterises being 'trans' is selfishness. Almost by definition this being all about you is opart of it. Because - in a sense it is. Having my family with me through this grounded me as did the length of the asessment. Why I am, so reluctant to accept five minutes and tick a box is an improvement rather than a pitential catastrophe.

What we need is far more research into why people today are 'trans'. A proper search for causes - both psychological and physical (if there are such things - I do not know after seven decades why I am what I am).

A big wake up sees that this is not - as being claimed - all one thing when it very obviously is not but the ones saying otherwise are the majority with an ulterior motive to deny that cause and so we are where we are and only science can stand up to that and comne up with the evidence to chart the best path. Denying it as so many do out there is for me a tell they are afraid of what might be uncovered.

You cannot shape people's lives on the back of their desires. That is never going to end well for anybody.
I'm not sorry, but I can't pander to you like other people here. Being Kind is what got us into this mess.

What we need today is for TRA's to be removed from public life and the idiotic and highly captured politicians to be admit the following:

You cannot change your sex. End.
Males are male for life. End.
Males, however they present are male for life and should not be housed in women's prisons or hospital wards. End.
Males, however they present are male for life and as such should always use male facilities. End.
Males, however they present are male for life and as such should only be able to compete in male categories of sports. End.
Males, however they present are male for life and as such should never be allowed to be offered/accept jobs specifically advertised for women. End.
Males, however they present are male for life and as such should never be able to take scholarships set aside for girls. End.
Males, however they present are male for life and as such should never be allowed to take the jobs of written for actresses. End.
Males, however they present are male for life and as such should never be allowed to use the girls facilities in schools. End.
Males, however they present are male for life and as such should not be given special treatment by being legally allowed to blatantly lie on their birth certificates. End.
Admit that autogynephilia affects the majority of trans males and they are a risk to women and children. End.
Confirm that opening up women's spaces to autogynephilia males makes them mixes spaces. End.
Accept that males declaring themselves as *trans* does not change the male offending pattern. End.
Get rid of trans ideology, Stonewall and the like from ALL education facilities. - Actually make it illegal. End.
It is wrong to record male crimes as female. This requires immediate rectifying. End.
Admit that males are a men problem. It is pure misogyny to place the onus on females to accommodate these males. End.
Confirm a full independent and open inquiry as to why the trans tit show has been allowed to ruin women's rights. End.
 
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Smellyfootballboots - I'm not asking anyone to pander to me. Sorry if you think otherwise.

I can understand your anger and why and would never criticise you for feeling it

I have never at any point asked anyone to do anything they wish not to do or say anything they choose not to say.

My life has not rested on need for validation so words do not hurt me as they seem to do many others.

And as I hope my posts show I actually agree with a lot of the things you say above.

But I will happily stop posting if it is going to become a problem. The last thing I wish to do.

Probably said all that I usefully can say anyway.

Thank you for listening.
 
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Jaycee, I'm sure you're a lovely, thoroughly decent person, but the vibe I'm getting from you is you're a "not like the other girls" transwoman (like Debbie Haynton, and others). I'm not quite sure what your life story brings to this discussion.

I guess my question is, what are you hoping to get out of posting on this thread? Validation that we see you as a "good" transwoman, who is against transing children and removing single sex spaces, etc etc? You don't need to do that.

Of course you are entitled to wade into this debate as much as anyone. But I have to say I've been a bit confused by your posts.
 
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This exactly. Like Eddie Izzard saying he’s in ‘girl mode’. A 60 year old man saying that is just disgusting and creepy to me.
It’s just a fetish to these men and utterly offensive to women. You only have to take a look at how they dress to know it has nothing to do with womanhood - what 60 year old woman rides a bike in a mini skirt and stilettos? None because we are people not a performative costume.
 
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@Jayceedove I remember you from DS. Your posts were and still are well reasoned and touching. I'm glad that you found a solution that worked for you and have been able to live a full and happy life. With more research, it may become unnecessary to transition but you took the only path open to you and I personally have no issue with genuine transsexuals like yourself that just want to be able to live a fulfilled life without tramping over others.
 
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I posted only because I wanted you to know there are people who have been saying this within what is now being called the 'trans' community for years and driven out of other sites for doing so long before this actually started to gain the momentum on social media.

We saw this coming and opposed it from the start. Debbie and I have posted things together with others in the national press several years back. But most of us who did have gone into hiding lately and are now too afraid to do otherwise as we seem to not really fit into anywhere now. And are not really an easy fit into either side of an increasingly bitter fight.

Some I know are actually quite scared for the first time in years. But we have no 'community' to talk it over as there are so few of us and most are scared of being visible anywhere at all. And whetever we try to do we end up being usually not really in tune for one reason or another as we do not fit into either women or trans activism.

But as I said there was no ulterior motive and I genuinely have no wish to intrude. We are being pushed deeper and deeper into stealth after years when that was not necessary. We effectively have no voice in a debate that will obviously impact us a lot. Though not as much as women I completely understand.

I will leave it at that and wish you all luck. Thank you for listening politely.
 
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It's a gender discussion thread. You aren't intruding, your insight and opinions are no less valid than anyone else's on here. Please stay and post, we can all learn from you.
 
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Thank you notworthy - I will wind down the posting as I have posted a lot and I do not want to intrude.

I will keep reading as I am interested in your views.

If there is anything I can usefully add then I may reply. But only if so not prolifically..

Meanwhile as I said thank you for listening.
 
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If TIMs feel safest coming into women's spaces, what's to stop the bad men identifying as a woman and coming for them there? After all, anyone can identity as a woman and TIMs are at more risk of assault than anyone, apparently.
Eta: question inspired by stuff over on the JKR thread
 
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@Jayceedove I've appreciated your posts but also understand what the other posters have said too. Certainly feel free to add to the debate. There’s a lot of anger and frustration here as for some of us this is the only place we can discuss these views as IRL it could lose us our jobs or reputation (madness but that’s where we are). I for one have found this thread a great comfort when trying to make sense of what’s happening to women’s rights. Just knowing there are other people (not just women) who feel the same makes me feel less loopy! I certainly have nothing against you or the struggles you’ve been through. Anyway, not sure what I’m trying to say other than I appreciate you all here ❤
 
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A woman was attacked in Manc today at a MVAW vigil:

It is a complete Anti-Women Hate Movement and nothing more.

Images from today. Why are the police not investigating these threats? Could you imagine women walking round with a TiM being hung on her t-shirt? Or kill trans - woman power - being graffitied on windows?

They just want to pee? USE THE BLOODY MEN'S!

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It is a complete Anti-Women Hate Movement and nothing more.

Images from today. Why are the police not investigating these threats? Could you imagine women walking round with a TiM being hung on her t-shirt? Or kill trans - woman power - being graffitied on windows?

They just want to pee? USE THE BLOODY MEN'S!

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This is ducked up. I try to keep an open mind in almost all things because I know that people are complex and life is made up of many shades of gray. But I have never—NEVER—seen public displays of transphobia that so freely speak of murdering the "enemy" in this way.
 
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They say we are literally killing trans people etc etc. I absolutely want no trans person to die. Just as I don't generally wish death on men or on right-wingers or on any other demographic with which I have disagreements. They on the other hand seem full of the most violent and women-hating rhetoric.
 
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This is ducked up. I try to keep an open mind in almost all things because I know that people are complex and life is made up of many shades of gray. But I have never—NEVER—seen public displays of transphobia that so freely speak of murdering the "enemy" in this way.
Remember just a few weeks ago, a disabled woman was arrested and held for 20 hours for placing stickers over TRA Terf hate stickers? The woman's stickers said Woman - Adult Human Female.
 
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They say we are literally killing trans people etc etc. I absolutely want no trans person to die. Just as I don't generally wish death on men or on right-wingers or on any other demographic with which I have disagreements. They on the other hand seem full of the most violent and women-hating rhetoric.
At this point, I feel like TRA in general are looking for acquiescence, not support.
 
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