Gender Discussion #22

[Glortard]

This self ID Gender Recognition Act bill is not making the lives of transsexuals any safer or easier - indeed the opposite. I have never known a act believed so widely to be wanted that is only wanted by everyone NOT actually covered by the act. Normally that would be seen as a reason to at least ask why.

It is much hated by many transsexuals - much as it is by many women understandably. We are both being betrayed - I assume - so as to chase the votes by politicians who dress that up as support for a minority community. A minority 10 or 100 times llarger than the one the current act actually covers. A truth they all seem blind to as they are all presuming this is one community when it is not. Any glance on Twitter would show them how much Transsexuals are hated by those supporting this bill almost as much as many comcerned women.

That new 'minority' - transgender - whatever that is these days - is growing daily and is now multiple times bigger than the transsexual numbers for which the GRA was written nearly 20 years ago. Nobody seems to notice that the GRA was written for what doctors told them are about 5000 such people in the UK to help them integrate quietly - it is in black and white in Hansard at the time - and indeed almost exactly that many did get a GRC and not many more have one now.

Would you not think some politicians could count and therefore actually wonder where the other 50,000? - 500,000? - whatever it is - have come from in 18 years?

Regardless, utterly changing the act to let transgender in is misleading on a grand scale and betrays both women and transsexuals - but they ignore both of these groups as misguided because....?

I have no idea what they are thinking but it is not because they believe the GRA is too hard to access for those it was created to help - who all understood the need for checks and balances and a compromise within it to demonstrate sincerity in order to be granted rights by society that always were a fudge that recognised how transsexuals were just seeking to live quietly not in your face screamers like transgender appear to be..

So they are - in effect - totally changing the act to the detriment of both women and the transsexuals it was created for - to benefit who exactly? This mysterious group called transgender in an ewver expanding umbrella that soon will be wider than the equator.

No transsexuals with a GRC that I know - me included - has one of these mysterious gender identities that is so nebulous doctors cannot find it - or I assume that is the reason they insist that seeing one is for them - as Nicola Sturgeon laughably (but seeingly in belef of it) was inhumane and traumatising.

As a radically different act it is disliked by the two groups who are most impacted by these changes - both seeming to be less than happy with the betrayal of its fundamental quality. That quality was trust - built by the checks and balances in the current act and the fallback of an independent assessment by doctors that brings confidence if someone applying seeks to deceive either themselves or others that this at least has a chance of being spotted, Self delusion fools itself so cannot be spotted if self ID is the only protection.

Are there no politicians who can see they are taking away these necessary protections for both women and transsexuals in order to do what exactly?

We have very little democracy in Scotland with few checks and balances - it often relies on self funded groups to launch legal actions against the government which they almost always win costing taxpayers money

Self ID was introduced into schools which followed the consultation with a few transgender pupils and two organisations founded by the SG. It was only after a woman's group raised this with the children's commissioner that it was pointed out that numerous children's rights had been trampled on.

Same happened in prison where a few transgender people where asked alongside Stonewall Scotland (over a million funding by SG). No woman prisoners or prison guards where asked their opinion. The latter group who are scared to voice their opinions are vehemently opposed to it.

This act will have been driven by the gender cult within the SNP who are not interested in listening to any dissenting voices

Thanks for contributing also

 

[Jayceedove]

Sorry for the long introductory post above. Will try to be more succinct in future.

But I thought it was important that you know that many of those with a GRC are with most women on concerns over self ID. Many of us told the UK government these things in their fact finding exercise three years ago . Indeed they quote a small part from my submission in the document Westminster released assessing the replies. So they read our concerns but ignored us - and this is not something we have just got het up over recently. It has been a kong standing concern.

We also told them other things they needed to change - such as the absurd exemption that prevents a transsexual man from inheriting a title ahead of a transsexual woman who still could. If that is not changed it is blatant sexism that should never have been there in the first place and must be removed.

Thank you Glortard. There is a cultish feel to a lot of what is going on out there and transsexuals are concerned because young people are being caoptured by its easy peasy warm glow view of transition. Which is a con as 90% or more of those considering transition in the past were deterred. Or realised after therapy it would be a mistake. And in the end that will likely have been the right decision.

Assuming the opposite and validating all legally before they may even know for sure themselves is risky

Nobody wants to deny someone from expressing their identity - having no GRC does not stop that. Whatever trans means these days go for it.
Though I have no clue what a transgender identity means as it is so broad.

You not only can fool yourself as to life changing needs but can fool society too by changing almost nothing if you have a mind to try. Few will. But nobody can deny some would be tempted to abuse such a free for all. No government should be making that easier for the deceptive

And self medicating. Not being assessed properly by psychiatrists as to regards motives (and there are several here - including some fetishes which are the ones that women are rightly most concerned about) is risking irreversible harm if we in effect wave these through without suggesting other possible ways around them first.

Making self ID for transition is in effect allowing people to make permanent changes as an experiment not - as at present - after at least two years of therapy and living in real life with that identity to see how it works out.

Transition should not be going on holiday to Ibiza for the weekend. It should be more like emigrating to Spain and adopting the laws of Spain. Equivocating the two is bound to create problems as these are obviously very different things. And if you are sensible you do the emigration bit only when you are very very sure it is what you must do and have thought through all the consequences of doing it first.

It is like treating every learner driver as a fully qualified driver because they say after a couple of hours practice they could now do it without passing a test - so do not worry I will be no risk to other road users.

We are never going to have self ID driving. Why is this any different?

 

[emm]

Kind of OT , but not sure anyone else published this here yet https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...es-and-the-parents-waiting-for-their-children
A couple (at least one) leaving a postpartum woman alone in a war zone This just epitomises for me how selfish using a poor surrogate is

 

[Clover123]

Kind of OT , but not sure anyone else published this here yet https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...es-and-the-parents-waiting-for-their-children
A couple (at least one) leaving a postpartum woman alone in a war zone This just epitomises for me how selfish using a poor surrogate is

I saw this too and it just hammered home how problematic surrogacy can be. In many cases it comes across like the couples literally couldn't care if the surrogate lives or dies, as long as they get the baby they paid for. Now we are seeing actual proof that they are just using these poor women and treating them like cattle who's only purpose is to pump out babies even in a warzone. The bit about the surrogates being put in a different part of the hospital and treated differently to other mothers BEFORE the crisis sent shivers down my spine. It's so handmaid's tale

 

[emm]

I saw this too and it just hammered home how problematic surrogacy can be. In many cases it comes across like the couples literally couldn't care if the surrogate lives or dies, as long as they get the baby they paid for. Now we are seeing actual proof that they are just using these poor women and treating them like cattle who's only purpose is to pump out babies even in a warzone. The bit about the surrogates being put in a different part of the hospital and treated differently to other mothers BEFORE the crisis sent shivers down my spine. It's so handmaid's tale

exactly, like obviously they would be worried about the baby.. but how could they literally have no care for the woman who has done this for them?! it is like with the payment the woman ceases to be a real person

 

[callurdadurinacult]

Kind of OT , but not sure anyone else published this here yet https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...es-and-the-parents-waiting-for-their-children
A couple (at least one) leaving a postpartum woman alone in a war zone This just epitomises for me how selfish using a poor surrogate is

Weirdly enough, I have THREE friends who have been surrogates. One has done it at least three times, one has done it twice, and the other had twins the first time (emergency c-section) and then miscarried the second. Two definitely did it mainly for the money. I used to think it was such a kind thing to do, but as I've peaked in various areas and revisited the feminism of my youth, I find myself just super grossed out by it now. :/

 

[emm]

Weirdly enough, I have THREE friends who have been surrogates. One has done it at least three times, one has done it twice, and the other had twins the first time (emergency c-section) and then miscarried the second. Two definitely did it mainly for the money. I used to think it was such a kind thing to do, but as I've peaked in various areas and revisited the feminism of my youth, I find myself just super grossed out by it now. :/

I cannot judge about your friends, I know a couple of people who have done it as a favour for friends who couldn't have children(not sure if there was money involved but as it was in the UK I don't know) but it also makes such a difference knowing you are choosing a woman in a mcuh poorer country than yours, possibly without healthcare etc... obviously the war situation was totally unpredictable, but it should be a clue that women in their native Ireland were unwilling to do it

 

[callurdadurinacult]

I cannot judge about your friends, I know a couple of people who have done it as a favour for friends who couldn't have children(not sure if there was money involved but as it was in the UK I don't know) but it also makes such a difference knowing you are choosing a woman in a mcuh poorer country than yours, possibly without healthcare etc... obviously the war situation was totally unpredictable, but it should be a clue that women in their native Ireland were unwilling to do it

Yes, choosing someone in another country seems infinitely more shady. I was horrified by the Ukrainian surrogate stories.

As far as I know, my friends didn't know any of the couples they carried babies for. One of them did it for a gay couple, but I believe the rest were straight couples who couldn't have children. I do think it's different if you're offering to do it for friends or a family member. Doesn't feel quite so...transactional.

 

[skronkywildcat]

@Jayceedove Thanks for coming here and thank you for your insight.

 

[Jayceedove]

Thank you skronkywildcat. Much appreciated. We should be willing to answer any questions of one another anytime on what is a difficult set of issues that challenge us all. Just denying that and calling women with understandable concerns rude names is not helping anyone. Least of all themselves. There is way too much antagonism out there and far too little willingess to talk this over. Many trans activists seem oblivious to how their reaction to most questions asked is not helping find answers and often reinforcing perceptions not changing minds.

 

[nothanksbabes]

@Jayceedove Thanks for coming here and thank you for your insight.

Yes same from me, its really nice to hear your views @Jayceedove.

 

[maytoseptember]

Fantastic speech from Joanna Cherry, I really recommend watching the whole thing. Great to see two male MPs interject with very supportive comments too

 

[Glortard]

Fantastic speech from Joanna Cherry, I really recommend watching the whole thing. Great to see two male MPs interject with very supportive comments too

brilliant speech and there was a time when Scotland had so many great parliamentarians across a number of parties but now we just have close to 50 plus non entities. Mhairi black managing to get the word bleep into Hansard does not make a great politician.

 

[thegirlscout]

According to Kiwifarms - Colin Montgomerie. It looks like they've had lots of surgery - cheek implants and all the rest.

Damn! I think because Katy is young the transformation is better because every older guy who has transed looks so bad and doesn’t pass at all.
Someone said that Colin looks like such a dudebro and I can’t get that out my head now. I bet Colin was the sort of guy who called himself a feminist but always had the last word on anything to do with women, so nothing has changed since.

 

[Vee6]

Damn! I think because Katy is young the transformation is better because every older guy who has transed looks so bad and doesn’t pass at all.
Someone said that Colin looks like such a dudebro and I can’t get that out my head now. I bet Colin was the sort of guy who called himself a feminist but always had the last word on anything to do with women, so nothing has changed since.

I think Katy looks better than most but doesn’t really pass, the moment he speaks the jig is up. Men just have much bigger, longer faces and their features take up more of their face, where as women’s features seem to be lower down. Very aggressive, very scary character.

 

[judgejohndeed]

Katy doesn’t pass at all to me tbh. Comes back to the whole, doesn’t look like a man, but something is definitely very weird and off such that you suspect he’s a man.

 

[Vee6]

It’s like the film Cats. Instead of looking like people dressed as cats like on the stage, they went too far with the cgi trying to make them look too much like actual cats. Ended up looking very off

 

[nothanksbabes]

Well that's one way to get your tit band in Kerrang and Metal Hammer isn't it .

 

[thegirlscout]

See for me Katy does pass, even with their voice. Their Twitter is nauseating, everyday its attack attack and being miserable. How can someone live like that?

 

[Couldlifeeverbesaneagain]

Eugh man claiming to now be a woman gets a thrill out of having big 'breasts'. How about men stop posting their sexual kinks in women's spaces

Fed up of all the maidens in this group saying he looks beautiful

Edited to add that some women were actually saying they were jealous because they have small breasts!