Gender Discussion #19

[Falkor]

It seems the rape victim from the Daily Mail article contacted a local women's group asking if they knew anywhere local she could seek help. Transwomen in the group complained about her and she was sent this by the admin.


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She's posting on one of the Mumsnet threads about the case, she's said she's going to try and take legal action to force rape counselling services to provide single sex services - I shall be cheering her on every step of the way.

 

[Vanelope]

I’ve seen some people on Twitter say that you can’t say that they were all women because you don’t know how they identified. Dear lord, the mind games they go through.
Here’s more on the person at the memorial.

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What the fuck did I just read. Equalising groping with a massacre and also then going on about gender based violence against trans people when those women were killed because they were women not trans. How to centre yourselves in the tragedy. Horrific. I hope there were complaints.

 

[thegirlscout]

With the amount of money floating about for trans causes they could easily open trans only spaces.

Someone pointed out on Twitter that their local rape crisis has groups for men, trans and women and that trans women are able to attend all 3 but women wanting women only have none to attend.

 

[weeweegie]

I just watched one of those shit Facebook videos where they interviewed twin sisters and one of them is a trans man now. Apparently from being kids the girl loved pink and wore dresses but the other one always wanted to wear boys clothes and hated pink. This is what it keeps coming back to and drives me insane. I spend my life telling my son that pink is for anyone, it’s not a girl’s colour. It’s just a colour. Dolls are not a girls toy, it’s a toy that girls AND boys can play with. It’s so regressive all this trans stuff and reduces us all to stereotypes. Looked at the comments and it’s all ‘well done for living your truth!’ yeah well done for having a mental illness steeped in misogyny that has made you mutilate your body and everyone is now congratulating you. Bizarre world we’re living in.

I can hardly comment on the uterus transplant crap, it makes me feel physically ill. It will never happen and is totally grotesque to even think about it. TRAs bring it up to wind up women, which to be honest they have been successful in doing with me

 

[AfroCircus]

I've read this too. I'm also adopted.

Since having my daughter, I've come to understand that it absolutely IS traumatic for a baby to be removed from its birth mother. Their home for nine months, the beat of the mother's heart, the sound of her voice. My baby knew me immediately - turned her head to my voice as the midwives were washing her.

I was hospitalised with severe PND, sleep deprivation, mastitis...all sorts..when my son was maybe 5 days old. The midwives used to care for him so I could sleep. I'll never forget them bringing him in crying, and then him immediately stopping as I leaned towards him and kissed his face. It was like he had been hypnotised. It helped me recover as I realised although I felt so shit about myself, he thought I was wonderful and irreplaceable. Having a baby completely changed my perspective on surrogacy. Babies are born wanting and expecting their mothers.

 

[CariettaWhite]

It’s astounding isn’t it.

My son is gay. He’s kind and gentle and no threat to anyone. Do I think he should be in womens spaces? NO! Because he’s a MAN!


Does that mean I hate gay people? Does it mean I hate men? Am I bigoted because I recognise him as male?

Ludicrous.

 

[Shesaidwhat?]

I’m so sick of seeing JK Rowling being blamed for all this as her house is well known and? It’s not the revealing of her address that’s the main issue here I don’t think. Those three showed up with an agenda. They probably wanted others to come and join their little gang to harass her further and they say the movement isn’t a threat to women.

 

[witchofwestbyfleet]

I have just seen an article about the trans character in West Side Story with "the character's gender identity was vague in the original."

No it wasn't. She was a girl. OK, wanting to join a violent all-male street gang is not the wisest decision for a girl (or anyone else really) but SHE WAS STILL FEMALE. Wanting to do something considered "masculine" doesn't make you a man or "non-binary" or a "vague gender identity"

 

[Shesaidwhat?]

Call me selfish but as a woman who’s had a fair share of arguments to do with woman’s health problems. I’d much rather they focused on making woman’s health care less of a battle and lost the attitude of “ it’s something you’ll have to deal with” before they start putting uteruses in men.

 

[jewelkitty]

HR at my job sent out a trans support message with a bunch of trans "charities" including Mermaids. 95% of the people who reacted with supportive emojis were men. There was deafening silence from women. Says a lot to me! Absolutey sick of these vile left wing men jumping on this chance to fuck over women like we've never been fucked over before.

 

[Wackie Jeaver]

I hope no one things the emojis I've been using are relevant to them. I'm just really sick of this whole fucking debate, of men forcing their way into everything to do with women. I dont even understand the language half the time - and I'm by no means thick or uneducated - I just find this particular expression of male hatred of women particularly vomit inducing.

 

[Kittypops]

Here's a question:

Do women who identify as men but give birth, do they insist on only having two weeks statutory paternity leave, or the much longer, paid maternity leave?

 

[holliebollie]

I have literally never seen the acronym TMAM. Why?! Because everyone knows they are biological women, therefore don’t give two hoots about them. Movember was unapologetically for men- for all the brothers, fathers, mates in your life etc etc, male suicide, men’s cancers etc. No talk of ‘For bodies with a prostate’

 

[Ekathrina]

It’s also been my experience, both on social media and in real life, that the left-leaning blokes I know have grasped on to the trans issue with a surprising and disturbing amount of glee once they realised it was a perfect opportunity to dismiss, harass and victimise women. Even the ones that posted lots of supportive stuff about the ‘me too’ movement and how we should believe and listen to women suddenly aren’t that keen on believing and listening when it comes to maintaining safe spaces for women and girls. It’s been a really disheartening experience.

 

[Ibrokethegoddamnwheel]

I have just seen an article about the trans character in West Side Story with "the character's gender identity was vague in the original."

No it wasn't. She was a girl. OK, wanting to join a violent all-male street gang is not the wisest decision for a girl (or anyone else really) but SHE WAS STILL FEMALE. Wanting to do something considered "masculine" doesn't make you a man or "non-binary" or a "vague gender identity"

It’s like how they try and say Mulan was trans, or Joan of Arc was non binary. According to them any GNC female of the past is now trans. It’s so insulting.

 

[weeweegie]

Had a look on the Prostate cancer UK page on Instagram and not one mention of ‘people with prostates’. Everything is men.

Contrast that with a local council page that is advertising free period products on social media. Not one mention of women or girls. It’s for ‘people who menstruate’.

Tell me again we’re not being erased.

 

[weeweegie]

Yep. Because women obviously can’t be strong fearless leaders without being trans.

It’s the misogyny for me. A strong non-confirming woman must be a man or NB. That’s a great message and not at all insulting to women

 

[CariettaWhite]

I didn't just wake up one day, a left wing woman who has spent her life among LGBT people and think, "Oh I'm gonna change all my views today and become a bigot for a laugh", as if having this debate is fun for us?! But if being a TERF for defending women and girls is the hill I have to die on then so be it.

EXACTLY. Hear hear.
My wonderful son is gay. Came out in his early teens. We couldn’t have been less surprised or more supportive.

My sister is married to a really lovely woman.

I’m what Stonewall would call “gender fluid” - in that I was an extremely gender non-conforming as a child, ometimes relish being all feminine and slapping on some makeup and wearing a frock, but still live mainly in “bloke” type clothes due to the work I do.

Do I feel like a woman or a man? No idea what that even means. I know I’m a woman. I feel like me.
I genuinely could not care less what people wear or how they feel about themselves. I don’t care who they fancy or who they sleep with as long as it’s with other consensual adults.

Why do people assume that someone like me would suddenly morph from an attitude of “You do you - fine by me as long as you’re not harming anyone” to being a great big bigot??

… unless of course they recognise that their ideology DOES in fact harm people, either directly (eg men in womens spaces) or indirectly as in the case of people like Grayson fucking Perry (yeah, I don’t like being an unwilling bit part player in your AGP fantasies thanks mate).

… I have to say that it’s interesting, this thread, in that even though we can pretty much say what we like, I’ve yet to see any comments that could be deemed transphobic.
I was kicked off Mumsnet years ago for using the wrong pronoun for Katelyn Jenner (ie using the correct pronoun for his sex) and threads are often deleted fir transphobia. It’s pathetic.

 

[Aquamarina]

And yet these people are puzzled as to why hardly anybody takes them seriously.....

Ziz is a load of zollocks!

 

[weeweegie]

@FitiverMin you have obviously come here for a reason. Was it just to tell us we are hateful beatches (which we are not) or are you a little bit peaked? It’s great that you are pansexual, fabulous, well done And you are welcome here on this thread but just be mindful that we don’t insult each other if we disagree, debate is good and things are not always as they seem.

I’m sure you are a well meaning person, we all are here. Most of us left leaning, anti Tory etc (sorry to bring politics in to it), and all support gay rights. However the rise in exposure of trans issues and the appalling behaviour of some very loud TRAs has stopped reasonable debate happening and turned everyone against each other.

And you cannot deny the blatant homophobia of expecting lesbians to ‘open their mind’ to dating trans women can you? It’s bonkers. I have lesbian friends who have been outcast because they have stated they wouldn’t date a trans women. I’m not the only one who had friends /family that have experienced that in here! Do you think that’s right?

So it’s good to have someone with a different view here as we can have a little debate back and forth but please stop commenting if all you want to do is call us hateful bigots.