Gender Discussion #13

[Brigitjonesbuttcheek]

I believe you can be bi or gay if you have never had a same sex encounter, just like you can be straight and a virgin.
But if you are not defining your current dating pool to prospective dates, it doesn’t need to be an identifier on things like social media in my opinion.


were the women like, ‘scary’ little?

But I would assume a gay Virgin is still in persuit of homosexual relationships, if you have only ever persued straight sex, you can't say you're bi or gay just because you've thought about gay sex.

At a push you could identify as bi curious. But I'm sorry you can't say your gay or bi unless you have at least tried to engage in same sex relations.

 

[Whatevesmate]

But I would assume a gay Virgin is still in persuit of homosexual relationships, if you have only ever persued straight sex, you can't say you're bi or gay just because you've thought about gay sex.

At a push you could identify as bi curious. But I'm sorry you can't say your gay or bi unless you have at least tried to engage in same sex relations.

We used to call it bi curious when I was younger! I guess we are only having this conversation because so many people are jumping on the rainbow bandwagon.

 

[hydeist]

At a push you could identify as bi curious. But I'm sorry you can't say your gay or bi unless you have at least tried to engage in same sex relations.

Does that mean one also can't say they're straight if they're a virgin who never tried to get a boyfriend or girlfriend? I don't really think that makes sense. We have all have a teenage crush on a celeb and knew whether we fancied boys or girls. Or both!

 

[Platformcrocs]

You can absolutely be bisexual if you've never had a relationship with someone of the same sex. Or opposite sex for that matter. I'm hetero and there's plenty of women I consider good looking, but I've not been sexually attracted to them. You just know who you are and aren't attracted to.

 

[Whatevesmate]

I'm not looking to define anyone else's sexuality. Would never dream of being so impertinent! I do think that this has arisen out of so many people currently calling themselves bisexual because its suddenly the in thing. Not looking to impose my beliefs on anyone. As someone said previously they consider themselves bi despite never having a relationship with a woman because of cultural reasons and lack of opportunity etc. I totally get that.

 

[Vanelope]

Two friends of mine - both work pretty high up at household name institutions - both have had diversity training and raised their eyebrows. One also has to do trans training.
I expressed my opinion that I believe in science. They laughed and said you have to stand in the corner. They agree with me - but have to work within places that increasingly don’t accept science. Which worries me greatly.

 

[DoraMaar]

Two friends of mine - both work pretty high up at household name institutions - both have had diversity training and raised their eyebrows. One also has to do trans training.
I expressed my opinion that I believe in science. They laughed and said you have to stand in the corner. They agree with me - but have to work within places that increasingly don’t accept science. Which worries me greatly.

"This growth of “woke capital” is a piece of cunning corporate jiu-jitsu: self-interest masquerading as morality". This quote is from Woke, Inc by Vivek Ramaswamy - his theory is that corporates are jumping on the trans/BLM, etc bandwagons to divert us from their real business of exploitation and profiteering.

 

[Whatevesmate]

"This growth of “woke capital” is a piece of cunning corporate jiu-jitsu: self-interest masquerading as morality". This quote is from Woke, Inc by Vivek Ramaswamy - his theory is that corporates are jumping on the trans/BLM, etc bandwagons to divert us from their real business of exploitation and profiteering.

This is bang on. Cynical capitalism in action.

 

[emm]

This is bang on. Cynical capitalism in action.

it reminds me of something a gay colleague mentioned to me a few years ago, we worked in central london, and around the time of the Pride parade he (something I had never really thoguht about) pointed out to me that all the businesses nearby would put the pride flag, or pride, but NEVER mention anything like the words "gay" or "lesbian". Capitalism will do anything for profit without actually doing anything of substance lets be honest

 

[CheshireLove]

I feel so glad that there is this page on Tattle where women can actually express themselves regarding gender critical opinions. I (foolishly!) like to browse reddit more frequently than I should and am trying to dump the habit because it's so easy to stumble upon comments calling women terfs and attributing all sorts of poisonous views to feminists. Today there's even stuff like this on the casual uk subreddit, which is usually 'safe' to look at, namechecking JK Rowling. Seeing things like this provoke an anxiety response in me - I start to feel on edge and my heart rate goes up. Seeing accusations of certain opinions being terfy makes me feel panic even though it's not directed at me personally - I'm despairing of how nonsense is being pushed on us but I get angry with myself for having this reaction. Does anyone understand?

Yes, there’s a real “stfu and die terf” vibe in the CasualUK and R/UnitedKingdom subreddit comments. I’m not surprised, I get big “I’m a feminist” vibes from the men who post on there (because the posters are predominantly men, as are most Reddit posters). It explains the casual misogyny that pops up quite often in those subs. Reddit, in general, is no friend to women.

I think of the U.K. subreddit posters as a homogeneous group of middle aged white blokes, posting cringey teaboo-esque content about tea and biscuits and barbecues in the rain while they sit on the loo at work because they hate their jobs.

 

[Whatevesmate]

it reminds me of something a gay colleague mentioned to me a few years ago, we worked in central london, and around the time of the Pride parade he (something I had never really thoguht about) pointed out to me that all the businesses nearby would put the pride flag, or pride, but NEVER mention anything like the words "gay" or "lesbian". Capitalism will do anything for profit without actually doing anything of substance lets be honest

The "pink pound"...

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

Having spoke to them it's isn't what they mean in this case, which is more confusing.

She doesn't want people to use 'her' as she doesn't identify with it? But she still likes 'she', so it's removing 'her' for 'they' but nothing else at the minute

Shouldn’t she be replacing ‘her’ with ‘their’ not ‘they’. I mean… it just makes no sense.

Straight people identifing as bi comes back to this idea that people are what they say they are, not what they are based on their reality or actions.

How many women who have exclusively been in relationships with men,have thought about same sex relationships or fantasied about lesbian sex. That does not make you bi. You can't identify as bi. You are bi if you have sexual relationships with both men and women. If you go on to marry , you are still bi because of your actions in the past.

Just thinking about sex with the same sex does not make you gay. It's your actions.

I know someone who is ‘bi’ but has always always had relationships with men and is now married to one. She is forever crying during pride month about ‘bi visibility’ which I could get on board with, but her reason is because she finds it mildly annoying that people assume she is straight, despite always being in relationships with men for forever. I dunno, I’m not in the ‘prove it’ camp but I feel like if you’re bi, but have only ever been in straight relationships, then you can’t really be upset that people assume you’re straight. Who cares what other people think anyway? This obsession with wanting to control what/how people think of you is so weird. Weren’t we always told growing up to not care what others think as long as you weren’t hurting anyone? I feel like social media has totally killed off that way of thinking.

 

[Notworthy]

Two friends of mine - both work pretty high up at household name institutions - both have had diversity training and raised their eyebrows. One also has to do trans training.
I expressed my opinion that I believe in science. They laughed and said you have to stand in the corner. They agree with me - but have to work within places that increasingly don’t accept science. Which worries me greatly.

We used to laugh at the US and their love of creationism but we're on a slippery slope towards the same woo woo tit

"This growth of “woke capital” is a piece of cunning corporate jiu-jitsu: self-interest masquerading as morality". This quote is from Woke, Inc by Vivek Ramaswamy - his theory is that corporates are jumping on the trans/BLM, etc bandwagons to divert us from their real business of exploitation and profiteering.

The problem is that the worst offenders are Public bodies in the UK

 

[emmer_moans]

There’s a recent post on r/books about a certain post by a man who enjoyed a ‘women’s’ book (Little Women) and how it’s disturbing - Link

They mention that a lot of the literature they studied at school was mainly by men and had protagonists that were men. I imagine a lot of differences exist (a comment mentions it in the Reddit discussion), but it’s definitely something that I agree with from my own experience

thoughts?

Certainly I find a lot of people stigmatise books written by women, especially classics like Pride and Prejudice and Little Women.

This obsession with wanting to control what/how people think of you is so weird. Weren’t we always told growing up to not care what others think as long as you weren’t hurting anyone? I feel like social media has totally killed off that way of thinking.

So true!

"This growth of “woke capital” is a piece of cunning corporate jiu-jitsu: self-interest masquerading as morality". This quote is from Woke, Inc by Vivek Ramaswamy - his theory is that corporates are jumping on the trans/BLM, etc bandwagons to divert us from their real business of exploitation and profiteering.

Definitely a deflection shield, I agree.

 

[dodo789]

There’s a recent post on r/books about a certain post by a man who enjoyed a ‘women’s’ book (Little Women) and how it’s disturbing - Link

They mention that a lot of the literature they studied at school was mainly by men and had protagonists that were men. I imagine a lot of differences exist (a comment mentions it in the Reddit discussion), but it’s definitely something that I agree with from my own experience

thoughts?

I loved that post, I’m not from an English-speaking country and I kid you not we only learned about one female author and she was only in our curriculum because our literature teacher decided so (since some topics were optional and it depended on what teachers deemed important). I read a lot growing up and my parents always bought great books for us that we could discuss with them so it was quite disturbing to see how many men hate books and movies that were written by men or written for women and when they like some of these, they act surprised and want cookies for it…But then tell us to suck it up when we point out the ridiculous female characters that were written by men

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

I decided to read some books by some black authors recently as I realised that I really hadn't read any and I thought that was pretty appalling given im a big reader. Naturally there was some I liked and some I didn't but the skin colour of the writer or the skin colour or culture of people depicted wasn't what entered into whether I liked it or not.

As much as I dislike a lot of aspects around CRT, I really have no problem with diversifying things like literature reading lists because school curriculums are quite narrow.

On female authors, I recommend Charlotte Yonge. She was as big as Charles Dickens in the victorian era (jo March is reading one if her books in little women) but is largely forgotten. She is quite Conservative in her attitudes but she is very good turning family domestic stories into a kind of epic saga.

 

[DigiDuino]

Shouldn’t she be replacing ‘her’ with ‘their’ not ‘they’. I mean… it just makes no sense.

I've been trying to like 'educate' myself on the topic but I'm just getting more and more confused by the entire thing tbh.

Most people online say what @Platformcrocs did and that it means you can use whatever, but others (including my friend) want them to be exactly 'she/they'.


Dunno I'm finding it all kind of alienating in a way, like my field is super male dominated but MtF transgender people are now making up a surprisingly big number which makes the men go 'ah we have now hired enough women' .
(sorry that was a topic change mid post but that's been bugging me recently)

 

[Whatevesmate]

I've been trying to like 'educate' myself on the topic but I'm just getting more and more confused by the entire thing tbh.

Most people online say what @Platformcrocs did and that it means you can use whatever, but others (including my friend) want them to be exactly 'she/they'.


Dunno I'm finding it all kind of alienating in a way, like my field is super male dominated but MtF transgender people are now making up a surprisingly big number which makes the men go 'ah we have now hired enough women' .
(sorry that was a topic change mid post but that's been bugging me recently)

No wonder that is bugging you. Its absolutely infuriating. MtF trans people taking up the spaces where actual women should be is precisely what is so fucked up about this perversion of reality.

 

[Platformcrocs]

The constant abuse Marion Millar has been subjected to is absolutely disgusting. Someone shared her son's address at the weekend to try and intimidate her. Looks like she's contacted the police but who knows if they'll actually do anything about it.

But yeah, tell us again how this is all about trans women just wanting to use the women's bathroom in peace.

Shouldn’t she be replacing ‘her’ with ‘their’ not ‘they’. I mean… it just makes no sense.

I know someone who is ‘bi’ but has always always had relationships with men and is now married to one. She is forever crying during pride month about ‘bi visibility’ which I could get on board with, but her reason is because she finds it mildly annoying that people assume she is straight, despite always being in relationships with men for forever. I dunno, I’m not in the ‘prove it’ camp but I feel like if you’re bi, but have only ever been in straight relationships, then you can’t really be upset that people assume you’re straight. Who cares what other people think anyway? This obsession with wanting to control what/how people think of you is so weird. Weren’t we always told growing up to not care what others think as long as you weren’t hurting anyone? I feel like social media has totally killed off that way of thinking.

Do we know the same person? I know someone who does the exact same. Like I said earlier, I don't doubt that people can be bi even if they haven't been in a relationship with someone of the same sex, but I cannot be arsed with the constant "guys, I know I've only ever been with men and married to a man, but I'm bi too okay!" - yeah, we get it

 

[holliebollie]

I know that homophobia is still a big thing despite rainbows being shoved down our throats at all times, but I’ve never once in my entire life felt the need to tell anyone I am bi. Some people have their sexuality as their entire identity, as much as some trans people have that as their main ‘thing’. Why the sudden change? Is it more likely to be gay men than lesbians? Or is it just because they seem to be the most represented in MSM?

I had a brief relationship with a woman a few years ago. Since then, it’s been back to men and I probably won’t go out with another woman. I would say this makes me bi but I’ve never talked about it to anyone. I don’t feel the need to add a rainbow to my name on social media or even feel part of the LGBT community as it was just a part of my whole love life, not a defining thing. I just said to my friends, ‘oh by the way, I’ve started talking to...’ as I would with a new man. I’ve never talked about ‘what I am’ with friends/family let alone anyone I first meet. I’m as likely to say, ‘hi, I’m so and so, I’m bisexual’ as I am ‘hi I’m so and so, I use she/her pronouns.’ If the LGB community was forcing everyone to use that in our email signatures, there would be outrage. Why not go the whole hog and code us by age, sex, race, sexuality... while we’re at it, stick our religion and political leaning.