Gender Discussion #109

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Couldn't stand Anne Widdecomme but bleeping hell these people are vile.
QMLAAW:
I've been reading quite a lot of anecdotes from people who had met AW and she sounds very different to how I've believed. Appears I may have fallen foul of absorbing the media's portrayal of a woman who in reality just went her own way, lived by her principles and didn't really give a duck what you thought of her. I'm ashamed of myself for buying into the misogyny.
 
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Sunday Times article about the number of women-centred organisations Amnesty has deemed ‘anti-rights’.

‘Displaying impressive linguistic flexibility, it turns out that many of the participants in this “anti-rights movement” are organisations dedicated to protecting and advancing women’s rights as a distinct sex class. As such, Amnesty appears to have concluded that feminism is an “anti-rights movement”.’


One of the groups cited, independent policy analysis collective Murray Blackburn Mackenzie, has written this in response
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The Gay Men’s Network has also sent an excellent letter

 
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Well good luck when so much money has been leeched out of the NHS on defending spurious court cases and paying compensati9on claims that half of them end up out of a job.
We are constantly told the NHS is struggling and needs money and yet they are perfectly happy to waste money on the spurious court cases, which have been caused because of the NHS's own failure to follow the law.
 
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QMLAAW:
I've been reading quite a lot of anecdotes from people who had met AW and she sounds very different to how I've believed. Appears I may have fallen foul of absorbing the media's portrayal of a woman who in reality just went her own way, lived by her principles and didn't really give a duck what you thought of her. I'm ashamed of myself for buying into the misogyny.
I’ve been thinking much the same. I know the nature of post-mortem comments is that they veer positive, but so many people (including those she would be assumed to disparage) are saying that she was very different to how we were prompted to view her.
 
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I disagreed with 99.9% of Ann Widdecombe's views, but Christ she was a badass, didn't give a duck what anyone thought and was that rare breed - a conviction politician who didn't say that women can have a pen just to earn brownie points. She also ripped Jonathan Willoughby a new hole on CBB and was clearly hugely clever and witty. I keep watching the clip of her attempting to straighten her hair and chuckling. God bless her.
 
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QMLAAW:
I've been reading quite a lot of anecdotes from people who had met AW and she sounds very different to how I've believed. Appears I may have fallen foul of absorbing the media's portrayal of a woman who in reality just went her own way, lived by her principles and didn't really give a duck what you thought of her. I'm ashamed of myself for buying into the misogyny.
I’ve been feeling similar. Even on here I’ve seen people say “her views were abhorrent!” but it hasn’t exactly taken a deep dive to realise that isn’t entirely true.

Yes, her religious beliefs meant that she couldn’t stand in support of gay marriage or abortion, but by all accounts that didn’t stop her from having gay friends. So all the people calling her a disgusting bigot and a homophobe are just repeating what they’ve heard other people say 🤷‍♀️

Edit: such as this clip
 
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I’ve been feeling similar. Even on here I’ve seen people say “her views were abhorrent!” but it hasn’t exactly taken a deep dive to realise that isn’t entirely true.

Yes, her religious beliefs meant that she couldn’t stand in support of gay marriage or abortion, but by all accounts that didn’t stop her from having gay friends. So all the people calling her a disgusting bigot and a homophobe are just repeating what they’ve heard other people say 🤷‍♀️

Edit: such as this clip
I was thinking yesterday about how AW’s Catholic beliefs are used to vilify her as a despicable person, and it occurred to me that followers of other religions that are similarly anti-same-sex marriage tend not to receive the same castigation. 🤔
 
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I was thinking yesterday about how AW’s Catholic beliefs are used to vilify her as a despicable person, and it occurred to me that followers of other religions that are similarly anti-same-sex marriage tend not to receive the same castigation. 🤔
We had a pretty good example of that in Scotland when Nicola Sturgeon stood down. There were two candidates in the running - Kate Forbes, a member of the Free Church of Scotland, was utterly vilified on her views about abortion and gay marriage. Humza Yousaf (Muslim) was given a free pass even though he has the same views. The big difference was Forbes answered honestly and Yousaf dodged the questions.
 
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Funny how all the people who are complaining about widdecombe are happy to cosy up to Muslims when they have exactly the same homophobic views
 
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Scott ‘Heather’ Herbert’s place of work has responded to his vile social media posts

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Just seen a trannie in Asda. Tall, skinny, straggly grey hair, big hands and dressed in a frumpy skirt and blouse with trainers. Had the essential huge boobs for his frame. We were going in opposite directions towards an exit at the same time, so I sped up so I didn't have to stand back to allow him through.
 
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I’ve been feeling similar. Even on here I’ve seen people say “her views were abhorrent!” but it hasn’t exactly taken a deep dive to realise that isn’t entirely true.

Yes, her religious beliefs meant that she couldn’t stand in support of gay marriage or abortion, but by all accounts that didn’t stop her from having gay friends. So all the people calling her a disgusting bigot and a homophobe are just repeating what they’ve heard other people say 🤷‍♀️

Edit: such as this clip
This is the attitude the world needs, and one I learned from my mum. My lovely mum was a born-again Christian. She never judged anyone. She was as kind and loving to my cousin and his husband, and to me and my girlfriend when I was in a les relationship (and an atheist), as she was to anyone. I mean, moreso to me because I couldn't have done a thing to make her not love me, but also for anyone who has read the Bible as a vehicle for their own understanding of faith and the world, to judge is to put yourself next to god and the Bible isn't very fond of that.

My earliest memories of being around LGBT people is when we went on holiday when I was about 8 and stayed in a hotel run by a pair of drag queens (the old school sort). And she was delighted by them because she had an incredible sense of humour and really cared about taking people as they are. Such Christian bigotry! She was very motivated by her faith to be a good, decent and kind person. Never a shred of judgement and the warmest most generous person I ever knew. And despite what the press has said about Ann over the years, that is what shines through from her friends' accounts of her, and why her death has made me very sad.

I think it's very relevant to gender ideology, and modern democracy. The entire point of society is that we can coexist with diverging viewpoints. Do I think men are women just because they say they are? Not in the slightest. Does that mean I am going to be unpleasant, unkind or target someone because of the way they feel about themselves? No. I'm interested in people for who they are. I've been friends with countless gender non conforming people (and have been one myself), I just don't think anyone's identity - including my own - should be legilslated for over objective reality. That's the long and short of it. To reframe disagreement as hatred is so corrosive to society and to democracy, as we have seen. It's an attitude that is leading us to a very dangerous place.
 
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Just seen a trannie in Asda. Tall, skinny, straggly grey hair, big hands and dressed in a frumpy skirt and blouse with trainers. Had the essential huge boobs for his frame. We were going in opposite directions towards an exit at the same time, so I sped up so I didn't have to stand back to allow him through.
Good. Glad you stood your ground.
 
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