Gender Discussion #100

[Milliemoo99]

Its odd seeing Nietzsche referenced here, as when i was a student in the dim and distant late 1970s, he was a controversial figure because of his comments about women... He was thought of as sexist and misogynistic, and therefore it wasnt popular to quote him or his opinions! It is so interesting to see how over time, opinions change so much!

I found this on Wiki!
Friedrich Nietzsche's views on women have attracted controversy, beginning during his life and continuing to the present.

As Leonard Lawlor and Zeynep Direk point out, "What Nietzsche says — and repeats with hysterical insistence — is that woman is the source of all folly and unreason, the siren figure who lures the male philosopher out of his appointed truth-seeking path."[1]

Some recognize that Nietzsche made these remarks from a consciously relative position of his own perspective, and while they show little patience for his remarks overall, they recognize that however odious his individual opinion of women may have been, he was not advocating it as a model for others.

 

[TwooTwooTwitTwitTwoo]

Sorry to wang on but I can't get my head around this... And nobody has complained? (Or does it not bother anyone?)

There have been complaints but there's limited space so we're stuck with it.
Eta. I don't work in the transport sector but obviously I'm not willing to put what I do on here.

 

[ButtonDownTheHutches]

There have been complaints but there's limited space so we're stuck with it.
Eta. I don't work in the transport sector but obviously I'm not willing to put what I do on here.

But surely it's against the law, according to the Supreme Court, for there to not be sex-segregated areas for employees to undress?

 

[TwooTwooTwitTwitTwoo]

But surely it's against the law, according to the Supreme Court, for there to not be sex-segregated areas for employees to undress?

I don't believe so.

 

[ButtonDownTheHutches]

I don't believe so.

They could find themselves staring down the barrel of a court case if they're not careful:

Single-sex toilets and other facilities
The update said that it is compulsory for workplaces to have sufficient single-sex toilets, as well as changing and washing facilities where needed. This purported to reflect the Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992, which require separate toilets for men and women unless single lockable rooms can be provided. These regulations were not considered in the FWS judgment.

The update was subsequently amended to note the application of these regulations to workplaces. It now says

These require suitable and sufficient facilities to be provided including toilets and sometimes changing facilities and showers. Toilets, showers and changing facilities may be mixed-sex where they are in a separate room lockable from the inside. Where changing facilities are required under the regulations, and where it is necessary for reasons of propriety, there must be separate facilities for men and women or separate use of those facilities such as separate lockable rooms.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-10259/

 

[ButtonDownTheHutches]

Why do they feel unsafe maybe they need to remember that when they want to come into women's spaces that women also feel vulnerable the hypocrisy is off the scale for the poor delicate flowers, who we keep bring told are strong and brave species. If it wasn't so tragic it would be laughable

The dissonance is off the scale: we can't be expected to work alongside this terrifying book as it's too dangerous, but women who protest at being expected to undress in enclosed spaces in the presence of men are hateful bigots.

Idiots.

 

[Funny_bunny]

Sandie Peggie lawyer says Scottish government is in denial

Lawyer Naomi Cunningham says the Supreme Court judgment is "a model of clarity and simplicity".

www.bbc.co.uk

Why do governments and employers make out it’s so difficult to understand? A woman is an adult human female, not a man with a delusion or fetish

 

[DoraMaar]

Sandie Peggie lawyer says Scottish government is in denial

Lawyer Naomi Cunningham says the Supreme Court judgment is "a model of clarity and simplicity".

www.bbc.co.uk

Why do governments and employers make out it’s so difficult to understand? A woman is an adult human female, not a man with a delusion or fetish

Strange how they had no trouble interpreting Stonewall's 'laws' and were very efficient at implementing them.

 

[Cacti]

Strange how they had no trouble interpreting Stonewall's 'laws' and were very efficient at implementing them.

Yep. Confusing and nebulous concepts like non-binary we’re all supposed to accept without question and use they/them pronouns even though it makes speech make no sense but “people should use the facilities of their birth sex” is just so baffling.

 

[Bread]

I don't believe so.

I've finally found where my post went! FGS a heads-up they were moving it would have been nice.

Anyway just to confirm what the others have said, I'm sure that is illegal. Making men and women change together is abhorrent and illegal, thank God.

 

[DoraMaar]

Naomi Cunningham on BBC - presenter warns that some people may find her language 'challenging'

ETA - there's a link to the full version in the thread

ETA 2 - links don't seem to work properly - download the full converstion here - BBC Radio Scotland - Scotcast, ‘Why I'm defending Sandie Peggie’

 

[DoraMaar]

 

[Not Now Bernard]

As if she gives one shiney rit about the trans community anyway. All she cares about is money in her bank account. Absolute sociopath.

 

[restinpieces]

Please, please, lets not be kind anymore.
It's in our teaching to be dismissive, conflict-avoidant.
Heck, curse me out too. But it's time to stop the #bekind narrative
Women need to be angry. W/o women there is no men

 

[Mugglewump]

Naomi Cunningham on BBC - presenter warns that some people may find her language 'challenging'

ETA - there's a link to the full version in the thread

ETA 2 - links don't seem to work properly - download the full converstion here - BBC Radio Scotland - Scotcast, ‘Why I'm defending Sandie Peggie’

She's got short hair and I've only ever seen her wearing trousers, I bet she's constantly getting chased put of the ladies.

 

[Miss Ophelia]

She's got short hair and I've only ever seen her wearing trousers, I bet she's constantly getting chased put of the ladies.

I want Naomi Cunningham in my corner go girl go.

 

[WitchyGrab]

I thought my first post on this thread would be a second wave polemic but instead, I want to mock dangerous Helen Webberley for receiving this criticism in regards to her recent interviews and debates.

‚…you DO NOT have the rhetorical and tactical skill to do this.‘

What a burn!

 

[FourSeasonSoupObsessive]

Awww, finally! I’ve been waiting years for there to be some agreement on facts between sex realists and transactivists and at last we’ve found it! Everyone can heartily agree that it’s a fact that Helen Webberley is a bleeping liability who doesn’t know WTF she’s on about. Yay, consensus!

 

[Miss Ophelia]

The more I hear from Naomi Cunningham the more I love her

 

[TwooTwooTwitTwitTwoo]

I've finally found where my post went! FGS a heads-up they were moving it would have been nice.

Anyway just to confirm what the others have said, I'm sure that is illegal. Making men and women change together is abhorrent and illegal, thank God.

It's not illegal but it's certainly not ideal. Fortunately the toilets are completely separate.

Obviously our posts got moved so I'd like to make it clear that my objection has nothing to do with the transpeople situation. I'd be perfectly comfortable sharing the space with a transwoman.

It just gets a bit awkward when you suddenly have to get semi naked with blokes you work with. Our team (which is predominantly men) have fallen into a routine of scheduled changing so we manage to avoid each other but we all feel uncomfortable about it not just the women.