I always switch off at the book specials, i'm not sure why! maybe it would be nice to mix it up with a TV or film special too as not everyone is into reading books....
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I like that idea!
I feel like I need to wave and say hi to everyone here!! I’ve just finished reading all 34 pages of this thread and I have enjoyed every thought provoking minute ... so many things I’d like to say, but to be honest I would be repeating what has already been said. So just a couple of observations from me for what it is worth.
The MoD thing really pissed me off, zero acknowledgement - glaringly obvious that it was due to having the same management. They could have mentioned it and identified the key themes that it brought up without discussing MoD herself, especially given the allegations of mods racist attitude around Candice - I think her words were ‘She brings everything back to race’. Lots to unpick there. Many other things could have been interrogated too - influencer culture as a whole etc.
I listen to the HL every week and in general enjoy it, but sometimes get annoyed with the recommendations and jerk circle - Holly Bourne’s book for example (started well but was so lame at the end).
Pandora does seem to speak more than Dolly, but I find Dolly more considered in her thought s and how she presents her ideas. I think their relationship is such that P has the more sensible, mature persona and Dolly has this party girl type character but seems to have more substance and is slightly more relatable. I went to watch the HL experience and just found it bloody annoying because I like their serious discussions but it was silly and not even funny (In my opinion).
Onto the privilege topic... this week they discussed the Adam Buxton podcast with Zadie Smith. I’d listened to it a couple of weeks ago and had picked up on Adam’s slight embarrassment / apologetic tone when discussing private education and the advantages that can bring. For background Zadie says that in order to turn around classism, racism and gentrification the individuals in more privileged groups have a responsibility to actively work to make the system more equitable. No point saying I don’t agree with XYZ if you’re not doing anything to change it on a micro level. It’s an interesting discussion as I feel Zadie lets him off the hook to an extent because she talks about the system being wrong - ie the fact that fee paying schools exist is the ultimate problem (which is true). In my view if he really does want to break down privilege barriers then sending his kids to state school is an active move against the system. Of course his kids go to a few paying school. Pandora agrees with Zadie regarding the system being unfair but doesn’t really take it any further. As others have said upthread there is a seemingly surface level acknowledgement of her / their privilege but the test for me is in the actions and behaviour they take. Don’t get me wrong they are very consistent with giving space on their platforms to a variety of authors and voices and I applaud them for it, but how much are they willing to do when it really affects their personal lives? I’m not saying they aren’t doing anything - they may choose not to broadcast it. It would be great to have a discussion like this on the HL.
Phew that’s a long one!
Edit - Sorry couple more things to add!!
Akala’s book ‘Natives’ is also a brilliant exploration of how class intersects with racism.
Michaela Coel - what a bloody legend. Her McTaggart lecture is really worth a watch and she explores the concept of privilege and what it means brilliantly.
www.broadcastnow.co.uk
The MoD thing really pissed me off, zero acknowledgement - glaringly obvious that it was due to having the same management. They could have mentioned it and identified the key themes that it brought up without discussing MoD herself, especially given the allegations of mods racist attitude around Candice - I think her words were ‘She brings everything back to race’. Lots to unpick there. Many other things could have been interrogated too - influencer culture as a whole etc.
I listen to the HL every week and in general enjoy it, but sometimes get annoyed with the recommendations and jerk circle - Holly Bourne’s book for example (started well but was so lame at the end).
Pandora does seem to speak more than Dolly, but I find Dolly more considered in her thought s and how she presents her ideas. I think their relationship is such that P has the more sensible, mature persona and Dolly has this party girl type character but seems to have more substance and is slightly more relatable. I went to watch the HL experience and just found it bloody annoying because I like their serious discussions but it was silly and not even funny (In my opinion).
Onto the privilege topic... this week they discussed the Adam Buxton podcast with Zadie Smith. I’d listened to it a couple of weeks ago and had picked up on Adam’s slight embarrassment / apologetic tone when discussing private education and the advantages that can bring. For background Zadie says that in order to turn around classism, racism and gentrification the individuals in more privileged groups have a responsibility to actively work to make the system more equitable. No point saying I don’t agree with XYZ if you’re not doing anything to change it on a micro level. It’s an interesting discussion as I feel Zadie lets him off the hook to an extent because she talks about the system being wrong - ie the fact that fee paying schools exist is the ultimate problem (which is true). In my view if he really does want to break down privilege barriers then sending his kids to state school is an active move against the system. Of course his kids go to a few paying school. Pandora agrees with Zadie regarding the system being unfair but doesn’t really take it any further. As others have said upthread there is a seemingly surface level acknowledgement of her / their privilege but the test for me is in the actions and behaviour they take. Don’t get me wrong they are very consistent with giving space on their platforms to a variety of authors and voices and I applaud them for it, but how much are they willing to do when it really affects their personal lives? I’m not saying they aren’t doing anything - they may choose not to broadcast it. It would be great to have a discussion like this on the HL.
Phew that’s a long one!
Edit - Sorry couple more things to add!!
Akala’s book ‘Natives’ is also a brilliant exploration of how class intersects with racism.
Michaela Coel - what a bloody legend. Her McTaggart lecture is really worth a watch and she explores the concept of privilege and what it means brilliantly.
Michaela Coel: MacTaggart lecture in full
'I'm going to try to be my best; to be transparent; and to play whatever part I can, to help fix this house'
www.broadcastnow.co.uk
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I was massively turned off Pandora when - at the beginning of the pandemic she was basically boasting about her ocado orders on Twitter and when people questioned how she had got them, was she a vulnerable person? she snapped at them all that she had a baby and needed nappies and there was none in north London. It was just snotty and crystallized a lot of my feelings about her. Reading this thread has backed it up.
I thought this week’s episode was one of the better ones in a while, they actually had nuanced discussion of Emily Ratajkowski’s article for the cut instead of just saying it was ‘astonishing’ and ‘vital’. It reminded me of the old days of the high low again!
It was a really good episode I agree!
What I learned about Ocado during the pandemic (I have an account with them but do not order every week) is that they prioritised the high regular spenders which I would assume Pandora is. They even messed up my prebooked order for the 19 March which I had placed weeks before. I tried to alter it to add more things but it took 4 hours of waiting online to get into my account and when I did I couldn’t add or subtract anything. You could not call them as they turned their phones and their app off. They ignored all my emails. It took them about 4 months to contact me eventually.
Really really good one this week, especially Dolly
I just went back to view pandora's ocado tweets with a simple twitter search. It was a week after lockdown was first announced, so I don't think it's as bad as bragging in say April or May, but I do agree it seems quite distasteful. She refutes that if she ordered the coveted nappies on Amazon, people would criticise her for that too, but I'm sure most would agree that is the better option in this instance as it saves the food delivery slot for the most vulnerable. She didn't even offer a disclaimer that she was also purchasing food for neighbours/mutual aid or family - to be honest I can't actually imagine her reaching out to her most local community in that way. I guess this sort of behaviour exemplifies the level of entitlement which comes with her privilege - and however many times she acknowledges her privilege, the entitlement still sticks.
Sidenote: I've been watching the BBC adaption of 'Us' by David Nicholls, which I'm really enjoying, and the woman who plays Connie, Saskia Reeves, looks exactly as I imagine Pandora will in years to come!! Does anyone else see the resemblance? Edit: I think you would have to watch her in the show to understand where I am coming from, her google image search does not come up in the same light.
Sidenote: I've been watching the BBC adaption of 'Us' by David Nicholls, which I'm really enjoying, and the woman who plays Connie, Saskia Reeves, looks exactly as I imagine Pandora will in years to come!! Does anyone else see the resemblance? Edit: I think you would have to watch her in the show to understand where I am coming from, her google image search does not come up in the same light.
Anyone who was physically able, not a keyworker and not vulnerable should have been joining the rest of us in queuing round the block at the supermarket, keeping delivery slots open for those who really needed them.
I dunno. Bragging about it on Twitter was low, but if Ocado chose to manage their business that way then I cannot blame Pandora for taking advantage of it. It’s not like she could have given up her slot to someone vulnerable - if she chose not to use it, the next highest spender in the list would have gotten it.
Talking about it publicly was unfair, but using the slots... I probably would have done the same if I had two young children, in all honesty. It’s Ocado who are the problem here, in my opinion.
Talking about it publicly was unfair, but using the slots... I probably would have done the same if I had two young children, in all honesty. It’s Ocado who are the problem here, in my opinion.
I also really enjoyed this week's episode! I think the debate was interesting and like someone else said, it was nice they actually considered the Emily Ratajkowski thing from a few angles. I also agreed with Dolly on that front. Do you think they read here and are trying to be more 'authentic' again?
Also, did anyone else wonder where Dolly was when she said she was 'away'? Feel like she is usually v upfront with that sort of info so I wondered if she was at a boyfriend's or something. I know they're not influencers in the sense that Youtubers etc are, but I would be quite interested in Dolly's love life if she ever shared it! But then maybe I am too nosey
Also, did anyone else wonder where Dolly was when she said she was 'away'? Feel like she is usually v upfront with that sort of info so I wondered if she was at a boyfriend's or something. I know they're not influencers in the sense that Youtubers etc are, but I would be quite interested in Dolly's love life if she ever shared it! But then maybe I am too nosey
Fair point!
I enjoyed the episode too - seems like they've got their mojo back. The discussion about choice feminism was interesting. Funnily enough, though, they didn't mention a certain other Times writer's newfound love of Botox as a feminist act...
I agree. I enjoyed listening to what they had to say re: Emily Ratajkowski, particularly around the subject of choice feminism. It was nice to hear how they feel about feminism in general and the part that they play as individuals.
Ah yes, the discussion about choice feminism brought that to my mind too.
One thing I really like about Pandora and Dolly is that they're always clear about not having the answers to everything, that they're not always sure what they think about things and are quick to acknowledge when they've got something wrong. I like the way they'll say - when a mistake has been pointed out to them - 'We need to educate ourselves on that'.
I find that so much more appealing than the great certainty with which others acquaint us with their views.
I must be the only one who didn’t enjoy this week’s episode. I found it quite tedious personally. Neither are as intelligent as they think they are. I also find it irritating that they skirt around important issues eg the last election and corona - either don’t mention it at all or be prepared to go deep!
I was really narked at Dolly’s comment that everyone wedding is like a funeral’. Probably because she isn’t the centre of attention!
Haha yes I wondered the same!!I also really enjoyed this week's episode! I think the debate was interesting and like someone else said, it was nice they actually considered the Emily Ratajkowski thing from a few angles. I also agreed with Dolly on that front. Do you think they read here and are trying to be more 'authentic' again?
Also, did anyone else wonder where Dolly was when she said she was 'away'? Feel like she is usually v upfront with that sort of info so I wondered if she was at a boyfriend's or something. I know they're not influencers in the sense that Youtubers etc are, but I would be quite interested in Dolly's love life if she ever shared it! But then maybe I am too nosey
I was really narked at Dolly’s comment that everyone wedding is like a funeral’. Probably because she isn’t the centre of attention!
There has been a recent flood of good reviews for Pandora's book on the Waterstones site. Looks like an attempt to bury the bad ones...
I felt the same- if she really hates weddings that much (I feel like she’s said similar things a few times before) then she should just not go. I’m sure couples that have previously had her as a guest at their weddings are just thrilled that they invited her with this sort of reaction. Disclaimer though- I’m extra touchy about weddings at the moment as just postponed mine for the second time for obvious reasons.
100% agree they’re not as intelligent as they think they are. Well read, yes, but no more intelligent than most people. Publishing a book of essays also suggests that one thinks rather highly of herself and her viewpoint- I haven’t read it but by all accounts (and the genuine reviews) there’s nothing groundbreaking in there.
I don’t understand how someone can’t enjoy a wedding! What’s not to like? A day spent dressed up quaffing champagne and celebrating your friend or family member getting hitched? Quite possibly with free food and booze? Even if you don’t know the couple and you’re a plus one, it’s still fun?! It must be to do with not being centre of attention. I presume she won’t ever get married then, as she hates that and hen parties so much.
Im not a big fan of weddings either tbh! Its okay not to love them you know!
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