Crime documentary discussion thread

[PoppyKJ]

Oh, I know and it was appreciated And it shouldn't technically be considered a 'spoiler' as it's already been shown on TV. It's just a special (annoying) request from me

Mr BMP doesn't watch a lot of crime with me but he does like The Jury. It was actually doing jury service that led to him becoming a magistrate so he always likes to see it he's in agreement with them - or should I say they're in agreement with him

no I will do though, didn’t even think about a spoiler tag the first time!

I do always think I’d be terrible on a jury. I have to remind myself you’re not meant to base your decisions on your own opinion, more on what the evidence tells you. But it’s so hard!

I’ve been a witness in court and know what happened as a fact, but the person got found not guilty which is infuriating. I was so young and it was really difficult to get up there & then felt defeated with the verdict.

 

[Crumpet41]

I watched The Trial of Karen Read at weekend - HBO Max

The case is about an american woman called Karen Read who was accused of murdering her police officer boyfriend and a suspected Boston PD cover up .

Thoughts in a spoiler :-



I watched this having zero knowledge of this case.

Karen Read. I really didnt like her as a person tbh. I think that she absolutely revelled in all the attention that she received during the trial and the cult following she had made me feel quite uncomfortable especially when the doc mentioned that witnesses were being stalked and harrassed by KR supporters. Regardless of whether she was guilty or not this is not acceptable. She should have told them to stop yet she just let them carry on.

Despite all my misgivings about Karen I did not (still don't) believe that she murdered him. The prosecution put forward a piss poor case imo . To say it was a mess would be the understatement of the year. The evidence they presented about the tail light? Are you having a laugh? Having reversed into a wall myself (on multiple occasions ) I could immediately tell what had happened to the light and why it was smashed to smithereens. Hitting a person would not create the damage that taillight had unless they had been sit at speed. This also would have meant that the body should be several hundred feet away from where it was found.

Then there is the the "I hit him" statement that KR allegedly made that comes from one of the witnesses. This is the same person who was also busy googling "how long it takes to die in the cold" that night at the same time as his death. There is also quite a bit footage from police, ambulance crews shown where you could hear what was being said by people and this statement of "i hit him" wasnt heard. For clarity, KR was meant to have been running around shouting this to all and sundry. There was also the troopers work group whatsapp messages which were pretty disgusting but also revealed what Karen Read's fate was which had already been decided at the top.

The collection of evidence was also poor and really quite shocking. Collecting blood samples using paper cups and then putting it inside a paper grocery bag. Hmmm... really? Nothing the prosecution said made any sense at all . Literally nothing.. their whole "case" was far fetched to say the very least.

The other side of all this is that there are a lot of people involved in a huge cover up but based off Boston PD's history of cover ups that involve their officers then to me it does seem plausible that they "would close ranks" to cover up again. Even with so many involved ( all involved are either related or very very close friends ). John O'Keefe is the outsider ( so to speak)

To me it seems more likely that something happened inside or possibly just outside the house - maybe a fight? given they were all pissed at the time. John O'Keefe maybe fell over and has somehow ended up face planted in the snow and he froze to death. That would explain the head injuries but lack of injuries elsewhere.. but this is where it then gets messy and nothing really makes any sense. If this was an accident then why google about how long it takes to die in the cold? Why not just call a taxi and send him home? What was so bad that they decided to leave him there? They knew something was up based off numbers of people making phone calls and then making excuses that its a "butt call".. when they are calling each other back? Why was Jen McCabe googling about how long it takes to die in the snow?

But then.. i have questions on the defense side that don't make any sense to me - like why when KR & O'Keefe arrived at the property did it look like no one was home. Why did only John O'Keefe try to go inside? Why did KR wait 10 mins and then decide to go back home? If all the lights are out.. he must have gone inside.. so someone must have been home?

All of this is clouded with a lot of pissed up people and muddled memories but even so..you'd have to be paralytic to not remember anything at all? and if KR was.. then why was she driving? I mean.. thats a side argument but all the same..

 

[Tangent Tiger]

She managed to get her head back in place (somehow!) and crawled up to the road. Doctor bloke seemed really sweet.

 

[Melian]

It's mostly repeats now but I do enjoy Medical Detectives on CBS Reality

Faking it: Tears of a crime on Quest Red and Discovery plus is interesting. I've watched it too much and there's so many other documentaries I've watched on crimes and it's clear to me they're lying

 

[Lukeal70]

Who approved that hair do for Kenzie’s interview as well, she looked ridiculous.

Prison chic

 

[flap a doodle dandy]

The Mother of all Cons on iPlayer.

Remind me again why Münchausen by Proxy isn't a crime of abuse carrying a sentence?

Not watched this yet but there was a very good podcast about it that I listened to last year. It is shocking how there was no criminal investigation into what can only be called abuse.

 

[Be More Pacific]

Also, does anyone else think Netflix will be all over this Lindsay Clancy case once it's concluded?

I'm expecting that Dateline, 48 Hours and 20/20 will all devote an episode to it. Surprised they haven't already to be honest unless the judge ordered that it couldn't be reported on. Unsurprisingly, I see it's turned into an absolute fucking circus over there. One of the many, many things I have a problem with about the USA justice system.

 

[MissTeddy]

If I am interpreting your comment correctly then I think we are on the same page as Thompson/Venables . A few years ago i read a book that was written by David James Smith ( he was a local journalist at the time and now works for the Sunday times and has since won a few writing awards) . I learned about the book through a course I was on whilst in Uni. It is extremely well written - factual and gave a balanced view overall.

It changed my views of the whole situation - from how i thought about Thompson/Venables ( going from thinking they were the epitome of evil to that they were failed from the start). From parents to school to social workers to the media. They became scapegoats for system failings. I do not think they should have been tried as adults either. This did more harm than good. They should have been protected from the media and public opinion. A 10 year old is not an adult.

What they did was horrendous and i do not condone what happened . I have nothing but empathy for James Bulgar and his family. But at the same time i have empathy for Thompson & Venables who both had a pretty shitty upbringing which played its part in what happened to James.

The book i read > https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sleep-Reason-James-Bulger-Case/dp/0571282709

Such a well written and thoughtful book, I’ve recommended it a few times on this thread.

 

[MissTeddy]

As I usually watch on catch up, I'm not sure if the current series is still running:
24 hours in police custody on channel 4. There's an episode dedicated to just knife crime. Unbelievable how easy it is to purchase knives like that

The Nicholas Prosper case was shown. I knew very little until I watched this programme. It was rather disturbing

There is whole thread dedicated to 24hrs in police custody If you want to deep dive !

 

[Upintheair83]

Totally agree! Shocking

It's the worst thing I think iv ever watched in my life too! I couldnt believe it. The poor mums screams on the 911 call was so heartbreaking, I just don't even know what to say.

 

[Boogs]

There is a documentary series coming out on Netflix tomorrow called The Pastors Wife. The pastor in question is an utter psychopath who needs locking up.

 

[Spiderplant]

Fake Friend: The Ticket Scammer

Looks like there’s a few more to keep me busy!

 

[francesthemute]

Just watched The Crash on Netflix.

I think it’s really sad all round but that in the moment she meant what she did. She probably meant for one of the boys to intervene successfully. Or was totally ‘fuck it’ and thought maybe they’d all die. Guilty, but complicated.

 

[Naffdoff]

There is a thread on the Karen Read case that I think you would find interesting

 

[Be More Pacific]

Spoiler: Additional thoughts

The Disney doc did mention that there had been a similar murder close by to Pocatello however it only touched on this briefly and i don't recall them mentioning that TA lived that close either. This is not to say they didn't - could well have missed this as i was pottering around each episode. I also had the same opinion as you that TA parents thought the sun shone out his arse initially but as the documentary progressed I did change my mind. But in hindsight i now wonder if this opinion was influenced by BD's family and BD's remorse because now i am thinking about the family didn't really stop making excuses for TA. I was also annoyed when the parents and TA basically blamed his behaviour on the fact he was possibly coming to terms with being gay.
The doc also featured both BD and TA in prison as well - both were 35 at the time ( and both were on the phone to the producers - not visited in person . It was whilst they were on the phone to TA i thought he came across as being remorseful . There is no question that BD has been remorseful from the very start but TA def less so.

Re - life without parole . I am not sure where i sit with this . The judge clearly thought they posed as a danger to the public at the time and I would agree ( given their "kill "list). You could argue that BD would most likely not reoffend but I cant be certain about TA ( so then if i am having these thoughts then why am I thinking he came across as remorseful? I don't know how to answer that ).

I will look for the doc on YT as well thanks

Spoiler: More thoughts

I wouldn't say the murder or Nori Jones was similar except for the use of a knife. Very different motive.

I think TA is highly manipulative - in fact, in the Cold Justice episode, one of the prison staff said to the detective that he was 'tricky' or 'slippery' - something similar. At the time of the filming, TA and BD were in the same prison (I don't know if they still are) and that's why I find it sad/weird that they don't talk to each other. I'd like to watch the documentary you saw but I don't have Disney+ but apparently we are getting it as part of our Sky package so I will watch it then. I'll admit that TA really intrigues me and that makes me feel pretty uncomfortable to be honest.

When I say life without parole for juveniles, I mean it shouldn't even be an option. That door should not be slammed shut immediately. I'm talking about a minimum term followed by parole hearings. Obviously, if they are deemed too dangerous to be released, then they may well end up in prison for their whole life - I'm just don't think that should not be the default position. I say this all the time I know but there has to be hope especially with children. There has to be hope of rehabilitation. There has to be hope that something positive can come out of a tragedy. You are condemning a child to a life behind bars forever and that's what does not sit well with me. That's my point really. Believe me, I have wrestled with this for many years - I was once (metaphorically speaking) one of those people banging on the Thompson/Venebles prison vans at their first court appearance. I actually can't believe I ever felt that way about children.

 

[Be More Pacific]

Still trying to find those missing two episodes of Murder 24/7 (no luck) but did come across a new four part documentary on this week on C4.

It's called The Never Ending Murder and it's about the case of Nicola Payne. First two parts are on Wednesday night starting at 9pm and the final two are on Thursday night.

I know this case. I followed the trial. I'm struggling to see how this is going to be stretched out for four hours if I'm honest

EDIT - says it's new but a quick Google confirms it's actually three years old. Looks like it was originally for made for Prime (maybe)

 

[rivermonster]

When I can't sleep I listen to Killer in my Village on YTube, loads on there.

 

[Lars Guinard]

When I can't sleep I listen to Killer in my Village on YTube, loads on there.

I do this! It's the music that helps me get to sleep and the calm narration.

Britain's countryside killers (Itv X)
Britain's darkest taboos (YouTube)

Also recommended.

 

[KushhyDaze]

It's probably been mentioned before on here but I find the the YouTube channel ExploreWithUs very good. The footage is all body cam and from the actual interviews

 

[2ofeach]

Hunting around for something of interest to watch I happened upon this documentary.
Found it really interesting.
Some 'interesting' people out there!

I know I haven't watched everything out there but it's so time consuming deciding what to 'give it a watch' & not waste that time.