Coronavirus Disease Outbreak COVID-19 #108

[Onetwofour]

New Zealand and Australia did have a very early and hard lockdown beginning 2020. Lockdowns work when we start them early. Not when we delay and delay as we did at that time. Italy was telling us we were crazy to not lockdown when they were hit first in Europe. Did the other countries listen? No.

If you look at countries that implemented a lockdown early they had very few covid deaths, and no excess mortality. They could also get out of lockdown quicker.

After the first lockdown we should have thought what to do then. Didn't happen where I lived and still not happening now. Hopefully we won't go in another lockdown.

 

[elliebee27]

No I don’t think they should have locked the entire country down. Vulnerable people and elderly should have been told to isolate and be more cautious but the economy and schools should have been kept open. The majority of deaths were over 80 years old and I’m sorry to break it to you but old people die. We are ruining children’s lives to protect the old, and now we’re heading towards vaccines for children to protect the old?

This was the pandemic plan for the EU, UK and USA for something with a fatality rate around the Black Plague.

This IFR is suspected to be around 0.25%. Higher than seasonal flu, but not by much. Now with vaccines it is much, much lower.

They have no excuses except mass hysteria for implementing it, and now people WANT it to be permanent, not just folks in government, but a lot of nutters out there who enjoy sitting at home doing nothing or are genuinely terrified they leave their house they die.

Both of my grandmothers died last year from isolation. They just GAVE UP ON LIFE. Do you think they wanted that? Do you think they wanted their children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren to suffer? NO.

 

[hollowcrown]

What do you think would have happened if there wasn't a lockdown in march 2020?

Probably up to 600k deaths, possibility for more mutations.

 

[StrawberryCream]

New Zealand and Australia did have a very early and hard lockdown beginning 2020. Lockdowns work when we start them early. Not when we delay and delay as we did at that time. Italy was telling us we were crazy to mot lockdown when they were hit first in Europe? Did the other countries listened? No.

If you look countries that implemented a lockdown early they had very few deaths, and no excese mortality. They could also get out of lockdown quicker.

After the first lockdown we should have thought what to do then. Didn't happen where I lived and still not happening now. Hopefully we won't go in another lockdown.

And guess what happens when you lift the lockdowns… cases rise again. You can’t keep locking people down there’s got to be an end point to this where we live life without restrictions.

Probably up to 600k deaths, possibility for more mutations.

Probably… possibility
All speculation with no evidence to back that up whatsoever.

 

[Onetwofour]

And guess what happens when you lift the lockdowns… cases rise again. You can’t keep locking people down there’s got to be an end point to this where we live life without restrictions.


Probably… possibility
All speculation with no evidence to back that up whatsoever.

You are also speculating.

New Zealand spent much less time in lockdown than any european country.

 

[Couchpotato]

I’m in such a hard situation as my family all have the jabs including the booster. I don’t and don’t will not be vaccinating my children. They are all against me saying I’m unintelligent, they can’t understand me and that they will have to social distance from us and it’s my fault.
its so upsetting they can’t accept it,I told them this would happen, numerous vaccines stilk no freedom another lockdown. But yet I’m the thick one.

 

[hollowcrown]

Probably… possibility
All speculation with no evidence to back that up whatsoever.

Yep, same as what you do a lot on the Covid threads Let me save this one.

 

[StrawberryCream]

You are also speculating.

New Zealand spent much less time in lockdown than any european country.

New Zealand is really not doing that well, they are in and out of lockdowns and they are bordering on living in full on fascism over there.

 

[L2M2]

Lockdowns end up being implemented because the government fail to put adequate protections in place at an early stage which allow people some semblance of a normal life, schools to remain open etc but whilst balancing that with protections which help to slow the spread. Where that is not done because the government faf about being indecisive the virus spreads and threatens to overwhelm the NHS and they leave themselves with nowhere to go other than to shut the country down.

Adequate protections are needed so that people can go about their daily life perhaps in a slightly different manner but they can work, see friends and family, kids can go to school and the NHS can offer the care it should be giving to anyone with a variety of illnesses, not just covid, and those protections will be unpopular but are far far better than going in and out of lockdowns.

 

[StrawberryCream]

Yep, same as what you do a lot on the Covid threads Let me save this one.

Bit of a reach saying ‘probably like 600k deaths’ though isn’t it, did you just pick that number out of thin air? I’d like to know how you came to that conclusion.

 

[jackolantern]

This was the pandemic plan for the EU, UK and USA for something with a fatality rate around the Black Plague.

This IFR is suspected to be around 0.25%. Higher than seasonal flu, but not by much. Now with vaccines it is much, much lower.

They have no excuses except mass hysteria for implementing it, and now people WANT it to be permanent, not just folks in government, but a lot of nutters out there who enjoy sitting at home doing nothing or are genuinely terrified they leave their house they die.

Both of my grandmothers died last year from isolation. They just GAVE UP ON LIFE. Do you think they wanted that? Do you think they wanted their children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren to suffer? NO.

Many triple vaxxed people I know literally refuse to leave the house now because they truly believe they will die. What is the point honestly if you are going to be even more scared of living than before you had any vaccines?

 

[Onetwofour]

New Zealand is really not doing that well, they are in and out of lockdowns and they are bordering on living in full on fascism over there.

So are we. Didn't the UK had two long lockdowns plus the short one in november 2020? How many months kids didn't go to school? How many covid deaths? How high is the excess mortality? What about the backlog at the NHS? How many people didn't get their cancer screening? It's neither a success.

British politics are not in a better state. Corruption at the highest level of the government and right now a law is being passed to curtail the right to demonstrate.

I was just saying many countries who implemented early lockdowns have had so far a more normal life, less casualties and less damage on a social level (no excess mortality due to drugs, alcohol etc.).

 

[hollowcrown]

Bit of a reach saying ‘probably like 600k deaths’ though isn’t it, did you just pick that number out of thin air? I’d like to know how you came to that conclusion.

150k + 470k = 620k

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/uncategorised/lockdown-stopped-470k-covid-19-deaths-in-uk-say-researchers/

More mutation is obviously speculation but given what we saw with Delta, Kent + now Omicron it seems that letting a virus run wild in a population has a tendancy to breed more mutations.

So are we. Didn't the UK had two long lockdowns plus the short one in november 2020? How many months kids didn't go to school? How many covid deaths? How high is the excess mortality? What about the backlog at the NHS? How many people didn't get their cancer screening? It's neither a success.

British politics are not in a better state. Corruption at the highest level of the government and right a law is being passed to curtail the right to demonstrate.

I was just saying many countries who implemented early lockdowns have had so far a more normal life, less casualties and less damage on a social level (not excess mortality due to drugs, alcohol etc.).

Yeah with Australia they seem to be popping in and out of very short lockdowns, but they were also having music festivals whilst all of our pubs were shut so there is some advantages to their approach.

 

[elliebee27]

Many triple vaxxed people I know literally refuse to leave the house now because they truly believe they will die. What is the point honestly if you are going to be even more scared of living than before you had any vaccines?

That makes me so sad. Governments have terrorized people.

I had it Jan 2020. Still got vaccinated. Was never worried about it, I've always been worried about what happens when you give governments carte blanche over your life as we have done. It is difficult if not impossible to leave that state of affairs. It is why Sweden's normal pandemic plan behavior was smart: once you lock down and restrict human life why would they ever stop it?

 

[StrawberryCream]

So are we. Didn't the UK had two long lockdowns plus the short one in november 2020? How many months kids didn't go to school? How many covid deaths? How high is the excess mortality? What about the backlog at the NHS? How many people didn't get their cancer screening? It's neither a success.

British politics are not in a better state. Corruption at the highest level of the government and right now a law is being passed to curtail the right to demonstrate.

I was just saying many countries who implemented early lockdowns have had so far a more normal life, less casualties and less damage on a social level (not excess mortality due to drugs, alcohol etc.).

I didn’t say the UK are doing any better I am aware we are also heading towards fascism in this country with the talk of vaccine mandates and passports. If I had it my way I would have 0 restrictions, travel freely with no vaccine passes, if you want the vaccine get it if you don’t then no one should be judgemental of your decision.

 

[Onetwofour]

150k + 470k = 620k

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/uncategorised/lockdown-stopped-470k-covid-19-deaths-in-uk-say-researchers/

More mutation is obviously speculation but given what we saw with Delta, Kent + now Omicron it seems that letting a virus run wild in a population has a tendancy to breed more mutations.



Yeah with Australia they seem to be popping in and out of very short lockdowns, but they were also having music festivals whilst all of our pubs were shut so there is some advantages to their approach.

Yes I am not saying things are perfect. I just think it's delusional to believe everything would have been alright without the first lockdown in 2020.

Things sucks and are hard for everybody. But higher dammage have been created by politicians that always waited the last minute before doing something.

 

[hollowcrown]

Yes I am not saying things are perfect. I just think it's delusional to believe everything would have been alright without the first lockdown in 2020.

Things sucks and are hard for everybody. But higher dammage have been created by politicians that always waited the last minute before doing something.

I agree, I think the first lockdown was the one that was most justified but also was too late because Boris + The Tories are incompetent.

 

[Blond3g1rl]

The modelling is all rubbish. The massive numbers modelled after freedom day never materialised and made Sage look like idiots

 

[EmilyChambers]

Brilliantly explained, thank you!

That makes perfect sense with tracing the initial people that were in contact with confirmed cases travellers.
As more and more people test positive though there seems no definite way of telling if its Omicron or Delta as Delta is still our main variant.
If they're actually able to tell the difference then fine, but if it's only done by tracing back that still doesn't seem accurate because you're basing it all on people's recollection.
I couldn't tell you all the places I've been a week ago accurately

I have trouble remembering accurately where I went in the last 48 hours

There are many viruses that are contagious before symptoms start

Is chicken pox classed as viral? You're contagious two weeks prior to showing symptoms and that can be dangerous for pregnant women and some immune compromised people

 

[Onetwofour]

I didn’t say the UK are doing any better I am aware we are also heading towards fascism in this country with the talk of vaccine mandates and passports. If I had it my way I would have 0 restrictions, travel freely with no vaccine passes, if you want the vaccine get it if you don’t then no one should be judgemental of your decision.

So do you think without any mitigations, there wouldn't any excess mortality and hospitals would be doing great?

If that's your only concern about possible fascism in the UK the government is doing a great job with its constant antics in the press to hide the laws they are passing at the moment or planning to do so. It's better for them that people argue about wearing masks or not than looking a bit closer about what they are doing exactly.

Do you know you need to get vaccinated againt the yellow fever to travel in some countries? Or that when some diseases that are now almost eradicated thanks to the vaccination you would have been also required to be vaccinated against them to travel?