Constance Marten case - missing mum

[Allmyownopinion]

She is one nasty twisted piece of work to not be revealing what happened to the police, so they can let this poor innocent baby be recovered & finally rest in peace. Coercive control/drugs/poor MH does not excuse her withholding this information now. She can’t be in any more trouble than she already is! She’s away from her disgusting partner. But still can’t summon any decency to give closure for this poor child, the police must want to wring her neck!

 

[Tell.A.Tale]

The more I think about it, if the baby was alive and their sole aim was to keep it from SS they wouldn’t have been caught together without the baby. One of them could have stayed with the baby while the other went for supplies. That would keep the baby safer and they would be less likely to be detected if only one of them was in town getting cash and food while the other was in the fields or woods or wherever they were camping out. It makes no sense so I think sadly the baby has passed and it may have already happened several weeks ago

 

[rosieflowers]

I don't know how it works but wondered if they have maybe charged them with manslaughter to extend the time they are allowed to keep them in custody? I also think sadly they must have some evidence pointing them in that direction. I just find it unfathomable that the baby is alive and they are no commenting their interviews. Sadly the baby has IMO probably passed and it honestly is the stuff of nightmares what the baby's short time on earth must have been like. Cold, stressed, hungry, ill and in pain probably.

 

[Aberscot]

I can’t get my head around giving birth in a car, then taking of to live in a tent in this cold weather with a newborn , who should be cozy and tucked up in a cot . what a start to that poor baby’s life.
Yet there is ppl defending them on facebook saying they haven’t done anything wrong!
as For that Facebook pages she liked , Jesus they believe that social services are taking babies to make money!
Have they seen the state of our NHS and social work, it’s the last resort before children are put into care and it’s because of the parents actions not the social workers !

 

[Mascaragirl]

It’s clear from her following anti social service pages on Facebook she’s against them and the police, so whilst I don’t doubt that he may of influenced, I’m not sure if she is this helpless person that was desperate to get away from him/scared of him and was controlled by him to do this. The fact she’s not talking to the police doesn’t help either- I think if she cared about the baby she would of spoke up by now, sounds like they are more concerned about covering it up/misleading the police.

 

[rosieflowers]

Oh lord, where to start! I am directly involved in these types of decisions on a daily basis, and this level of misinformation does so much harm! So much harm. I was also involved with the Italian case you mentioned, what you said happened? Didn’t happen. There was much more to it. Cheaper and easier? For whom? SS? Don’t make me laugh. The outcome for children who are removed from birth parents and moved through the foster/care system is bleak - poor outcomes, hugely expensive, hugely damaging, hugely time consuming and SS have to them support until the care leaver is 25 as opposed to 18. I don’t mind people having a different view, but to perpetuate this nonsense really doesn’t help.

Thanks, that post was full of so much false information that can easily be proved incorrect. When someone starts waffling about secret courts and 'removed for no reason but the risk of emotional harm' you know which way a post is going but it took a bit of a jump off the deep end with the Ian Josephs stuff

For context that poster also appears to be an antivaxxer who believes that ivermectin can cure covid....

I think that way of thinking (conspiracy theories about organisations like Ss and the police) actually ties into the internal/ external locus of control thing that was discussed earlier in the thread

I'm not involved in this arena professionally but I do use BAILii for work and so have read the decision on the Italian woman's case. 'Secret courts' just isn't a thing.

 

[RosieSparkle]

If she was an evil monster who didn't care if her baby died, then she could have dumped it after the birth. Other mothers have done the same, just look at the newborn babies that have been found in bins or just dumped somewhere with cords still attached. She obviously cared enough to keep them with her for the best part of 2 months. My money is on coercive control from partner, PTSD and trauma from giving birth unassisted in a car ffs, and being on the run, maybe being told repeatedly by said controlling partner that the baby would be taken from her if they went to a hospital. Disassociation as a result of trauma meaning she buried the baby when it died and may not even have fully processed what has happened. Might be keeping quiet on advice of a solicitor. Trauma and PTSD really fucks the brain up and it's very difficult for ordinary people like those of us on the thread to fully understand why someone behaves in that way, but that doesn't negate what may be at play here.

Just my 2 cents. Fully aware they might just be negligent shitbags.

 

[Ittybittytittyclub]

I’m sure (but am happy to be corrected if I’m wrong) that I saw a few weeks ago cctv of him throwing a stroller over a fence into some sort of wasteland. I believe that’s because the baby passed, I thought it then and now they have been arrested without the baby I really think unfortunately the worst has happened. I would hope that now the police have them separated, Constance will tell the police where the baby is and what actually happened.

 

[HotesTilaire]

Ran here to say - where has the baby gone? It’s looking like a dark turn that they arrested both parents, but are searching for the baby

Constance Marten and her partner Mark Gordon are arrested - but their baby is still missing

The missing aristocrat, her partner, and their newborn baby have been missing since their car broke down near a motorway in early January.

news.sky.com

 

[Polythene Pam]

I can’t believe both parents would have left the baby alone to go and get cash. Surely not.

They clearly care more about themselves than the baby. I can't believe they'd camp out with a newborn in January.

 

[Okgolightly]

I’m not defending them. I’m absolutely not. I’m heartbroken that this is the outcome for the baby and I do believe it could and should have been avoided in some way.

But every single person saying they’re evil / they deserve what’s coming / they should be sterilised etc etc is making an assumption on what happened just as much as anyone else who might say what if she or he had psychosis or PTSD.

I wouldn’t want someone on my jury who can make a snap judgement on someone they don’t know and declare them evil just from a tiny bit of information.

Absolutely get what you’re saying. But IMO to actively prevent your child from getting the help and support they need as this pair did IS evil. Even if the baby passed from natural causes (which I doubt), the pair of them have shown themselves to be at best piss poor parents.

 

[Polythene Pam]

Contempt of court is when someone attempts to influence a court case. A breach in civil law is usually related to contractual obligations.

You can be held in contempt for breaching a court order. If a care order was in place though, they'd likely be charged with abduction. A care order transfers parental responsibility over to the local authority.
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I understand what you’re saying - as a mother, you wouldn’t under any circumstance want your baby to be removed from you. You’d do what you could to keep your baby.
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And I understand what you’re saying - to go to these lengths aren’t something that you (or many people) would be able to comprehend doing. These things aren’t ‘normal’.

This isn’t a ‘normal’ situation.

Yeah you'd do absolutely anything to keep your child. Except, you know, stopping drugs or leaving your sex offender partner?

 

[ButtonDownTheHutches]

What proof is there though?

There is potentially a mountain of evidence which the police/SS have access to and which, unsurprisingly, has not been made indiscriminately available to the general public.

Why would you think the fact that you, as unconnected random internet poster, don’t have access to what you regard as ‘proof’ of anything means that no such evidence exists or is known to the authorities, or formed the basis of why they were being sought?

 

[Polythene Pam]

There’s no evidence CM uses drugs, or that MG’s arrest history is the reason previous children were removed, is there?
Purely speculation.

There could be many factors. Including those, yes, but also others.

I’ve never been in their situation, thankfully.

Children aren't removed for no reason. Whatever the reason is, she could seek help. Concealing a pregnancy and running is not the answer.

 

[Lackofimagination]

I will be lighting a candle at 7.30pm if anyone would like to join

 

[Lackofimagination]

I’m so worried that because the baby was somewhere close to where they were staying, that at the time of arrest the baby may of still been alive and those monsters refusing to say anything has meant the baby has starved to death.. just an upset thought in my mind.

 

[Polythene Pam]

But you don’t know that. It’s all assumed!

I don’t know she didn’t. I’m not saying she didn’t.

All I was saying was - everyone is jumping very quickly to conclusions (understandably!) but also being massively dismissive of any other opinions - when actually no one knows anything more than anyone else!

The baby was found outside and she didn't tell the police anything to help them find it. What more do we need? She did discard it like a piece of trash.

 

[Pinklobster]

I can understand Constance running from social services, if that is what's going on here. The reality is it costs less to adopt the baby out than to get her rehab, therapy etc while the baby is placed into care until she's deemed fit. I wish it wasn't like that, but I completely understand why people who are struggling to parent due to substance abuse etc are very sceptical of social services.

I just hope the health of her and the baby is ok. Hopefully someone is hiding them rather than a tent.

Just jumping in here to say it isn’t about cost, regardless of what people think. It’s about risk - there are constant risk assessments going on with families who are “on the radar” and they are very much supported. Unfortunately there’s a lack of community and health services for addictions and poor mental health, so even if that ss support is there, sometimes there’s a gap. There are lots of children living with parents/parent with addiction issues, but it is about risk to the child - if the parent is managing and still prioritising the child’s needs, they will just support. If the parent is not prioritising the child’s needs, or not engaging, they will look at removal. Media hasn’t helped in recent years - as soon as something goes wrong, everyone starts critiscising social services, sometimes rightly, so as a result, ss have become a little jumpy about risk.

 

[GingerSnapped]

Oh wow thank you. Goodness, i feel like all professions should have safeguarding training! Ill go do some research so I'm more informed.

Taxi drivers do get safeguarding training (particularly as they can be at the forefront of child sexual and criminal exploitation).

They were last known to have been in a taxi in the early hours on 8 Jan. The police first appealed for information about them on 6 Jan. Even then I think it was primarily a regional news story and not national. Entirely possible a cabbie wouldn’t have known they were being sought by the police at the point they were picked up.

 

[Mancnet]

As someone who had a baby last year you forget how relentless those first few weeks are. Nappy after nappy, feed after feed..how on earth they could have done this while camping I don’t know.

Whatever the ultimate cause of death is, it’s purely down to their selfishness and negligence. She would rather see the baby dead than see it in a contact centre once a week while fighting social services? Crazy.