Constance Marten and Mark Gordon Case #3

[KatieMorag]

I have a strong feeling there's a lot we don't know about this (yet). Like why they ran, why they were on the radar in the first place (probably previous ss involvement but reasons and what was known/agreed about this pregnancy). Where they went and how much is known about the timeline of Victoria's life. Whether they sought help at any point for her or she was seen in need at any point. Whether they bought/did drugs during their time on the run etc. I agree that the sentence will be light but I'm hoping the evidence is strong enough to show them for the scumbags they are.

 

[neroli]

Why is he allowed to dictate matters? He's the one on trial and should have no say in the matter.

 

[Airhead93]

This is what has been reported so she did have to baby in the rented house
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[neroli]

I had a placenta accreta and had to have an emergency hysterectomy immediately. Thank goodness I was already in theatre having an elective caesarean in a major London hospital. I would have died otherwise very quickly.

I suspect the baby was "collateral damage". They just wanted to go on the run together in defiance of SS.. No one was going to dictate how they ran their lives. There would be more babies if they wanted them. It was easy to conceive them.

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

We won’t find out whether the other children were also MG’s, or whether he was a factor in their removal. Anything discussed in court relating to them would be under reporting restrictions I think. But I’d put money on him being the reason she pulled away from family and friends.

I also think that if there’s a MH element, she would be appropriately monitored and medicated now but the infatuation with him has been clear when they’ve been in court together. No one can force her to take meds though, and if she really believes she’s in the right she probably won’t agree.

It’s an almost infantile reaction when she sees him too - blowing kisses and giggling. That relationship is toxic.

 

[Blurp]

Anger at how they treated the children before they were taken for adoption is fairly common or the way they act as if a child is disposable. It’s fairly rare in the UK now for adoption to occur arranged before the baby is born purely for the altruistic “give them a better life” reasons so most of the stories are things that would inspire anger alongside compassion for birth parents.

I used to work in social services and the last year there was a single baby given up voluntarily for adoption; every other child was removed by the courts.

 

[Dogmuck]

It’s fascinating isn’t it?

It really is.

So glad you’re here expert DM - is there any possibility we’ll get a bit more info at the next court date?

Obvs this is just speculation on my part but having seen what may be his Facebook profile and the 3k women he’s added all across east London I think he was likely still a predatory man looking for a vulnerable woman for whatever reason. The reason I say that is anyone who’ll accept an approach via FB is likely not the full ticket and therefore vulnerable. Obviously he came across CM at some point and clearly struck there, this is not absolving her of responsibility as clearly she must have issues to accept his past but yeah - in total agreement this is a case where truth is truly stranger than fiction!

Morning HTRIA (it’s still morning at my house as my main clock stopped at 3.45am so I’m taking that as gospel )

We may hear some additional details but it will be really limited

Defence and prosecution counsel will have already chatted and the basis of the indictment set out, they probably have most of the evidence already (cos it’s gonna be mostly statements, CCTV and reports) so defence should have a good idea about what they are up against. The defence could ask the Judge for a “Goodyear” indication which is basically asking the judge for an indication of what the maximum sentence their clients could expect if they plead guilty and offer mitigating factors. The defendants will be arraigned and this should be a plea hearing and then usually immediately after that you do trial prep.

So if they plea guilty then a date will be found for sentence but it’s likely the judge will order reports (such as psychiatric/medical) based on the mitigation/facts and that is often used as mitigation in the sentencing hearing.

Anyways, if they go not guilty then a date for trial is found and a timetable is set for stuff like disclosure.

We will only really learn more at the next hearing - we will likely hear loads more if it goes to trial because witnesses will be called, but if they plead guilty then they kinda get to control the narrative, prosecutors will only deal with the facts of the time line of from when they did a runner up until arrest. But once the case has concluded either way, that’s when the real tea will be spilled, the media are already likely to have most of the relevant information.

So soz me babs we have to stay patient for some time longer. But in the meantime did you follow the Murdaugh case? If not then get ok that. That was wild

 

[heretoreaditall2019]

Poor Jury being sworn in I would hate to have to do jury duty for this case.

Agree. There was a feature by ch4 news a few years back about how woefully uncared for jurors are in this country, they interviewed people who’d had to sit through weeks/months of child abuse cases and they were really impacted by it, and there’s no after care for them?! Horrific they should be able to access the same therapies the police officers etc working on the cases could.

(Also ngl, I would cite my own anxiety/panic attack problems as a reason not to sit in on a child abuse case!!!)

 

[Dogmuck]

Yes! I get that she makes a good front page - aristocrat heiress with trust fund flees and lives in shithole with sex offender - but he is equally culpable for anything that’s happened to their children.

Just reading that Twitter feed (total crime), it’s detailed and much of the evidence is focused on her because she’s basically the only one who’s spoken, so far, he’s asked for food . She’s accepted full responsibility for the child’s death by saying shes smothered her while sleeping. She is definitely trying to take the heat off him.

He is equally culpable but she seems set on not throwing any shade on him. It could be that he has some licence conditions on either his American conviction or something else that’s happened here that may mean he could serve heavy time???

 

[Aberscot]

It's all a bit sad really isn't it - at the end of the day you have a flawed couple, a baby who has died and no real resolution

Absolutely but the only person I feel sorry for and who didn’t even get a chance in life was poor baby Victoria.
Her life was over before it began due to the actions of her so called parents.

 

[Baabaablacksheep320]

they kept the baby in a Lidl plastic bag? Jesus Christ.

 

[Ittybittytittyclub]

Horrifying that when we saw the picture of her in the news, we speculated on here that baby was in her coat. Turns out poor darling was in the bag he was carrying

 

[Dogmuck]

They were actively on the run from authorities. They concealed the birth (and probably the pregnancy). They didn’t seek any form of medical treatment for the mother or the child. They didn’t register the birth of the child.
Regardless of how the child died they have committed a criminal offence by concealing the birth…
1) Any person who, without a lawful burial order, disposes of the body of any newly born child with intent to conceal the fact of its birth, whether the child died before, during or after birth, shall be guilty of an offence and liable on conviction to a fine or to imprisonment for a period not exceeding three years.

Anything they say about the child’s health is not going to help them. As adults, with a duty of care to their child, any health concerns should have been acted upon and they should have sought medical help. This is where the negligence comes in. If those children in the photos are hers, this is not Constance first rodeo, she’s given birth and dealt with newborns at least 3 times before. She’s not a child who’s got pregnant and doesn’t have a clue, she’s a grown ass woman who’s potentially already been a mother, as such, if she had any concerns about her child’s health then she had a duty to act on it and get help. She didn’t, in fact she did the exact opposite by putting her child at further risk, she’s therefore guilty of gross negligence and due to this her child died, so gross negligence manslaughter is bang on. So for me it’s pretty clear cut.

All other issues/discussions are mitigation.
However, it seems they are attempting to get the charges dropped. The only way they can do this is for lack of evidence, evidence got illegally or not in the public interest. I think this is just a chancer thing by their defence team. Defence will throw everything they can at getting them off, it’s their job, so fair enough.

What I find interesting is that to make an application to dismiss, this has to be made within a month of disclosure and before arraignment…they were due to be arraigned at that PCMH (I keep banging on about) which was set aside because Mark didn’t have counsel. I wonder if they were going to be out of time for that application if they were arraigned at that PCMH and the solicitor acting for Mark was collateral damage or even complicit in order to ensure they didn’t get arraigned to enable them to make that application to dismiss. I could be being a big old sceptic but I’ve seen worse jiggery pokery to meet deadlines. It will be very interesting to see if Marks new solicitor is from the same company…right I’m going to investigate this now!
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ETA

So PCMH (where they should have been arraigned) was due to be on 22/9 and the mention for Mark to bin off his solicitor was 14/9. The application to dismiss hearing is 12/10 - that’s a piece of luck eh?

So marks solicitor was Kevin Light founding partner of Bishop and Light - must keep an eye on the Bishop and Light team

Bishop and Light Solicitors Lawyers

The Team that work at Bishop and Light Solicitors

www.bishopandlight.co.uk

 

[4FoxAche]

That poor, poor baby girl. I hope she gets the justice she deserves.

 

[Sazzla89]

It's so difficult isn't it. My youngest is adopted and I have real empathy for his birth mother (most days, sometimes I'm angry at her. Don't judge, I'm just a human). Lots of us as parents can understand that desire to hold, keep and claim your child. if someone was going to take my child id run too.

No judgement what’s so ever. My child is adopted and although I have sympathy for the birth mother & father, there is a ton of anger there some days.
You’re right. We are only human.

 

[Dogmuck]

I had the help of an awesome barrister last year. She kicked ass. I still day dream about doing the new GDL and changing careers to become like @Dogmuck

oh lord thank you that’s so lovely. Do it! I’ll help if ya need any. Honestly, anyone can learn to do it, it’s not all that. I think law is probably much more accessible now, it used to be quite a closed shop, so if you’ve got a passion you should Itst really not hard, it’s just a job at the end of the day, but it just seems really special when you don’t know it. When you do it day after day it becomes second nature but really law is just a set of rules and the framework is all there, you can’t really go wrong. Like for me our friend on here @heretoreaditall2019 can do mega stuff with code/computers and I’m blown away by that type of talent, I wouldn’t know where to start it’s mostly alien to me. Everyone has their thing, law just seems interesting but quite often is dry and boring af

 

[elepal]

How the hell, in this day and age, are people able to post that utter shite? Twitter is disgusting.

To be fair, have you *seen* who owns it?!

 

[Dogmuck]

Proof that we were right about the FB pictures which I know some weren’t convinced of.

I think most people, including me, that “weren’t convinced” were actually just being cautious and not running off with theories. I like to know facts. But if anyone feels they need special praise for being right this is for you

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

This trial is going to be a pantomime isn’t it, her fluttering eyes at him, him refusing to appear, history that’s key but can’t be disclosed.

Wish I was on jury service to see it unfold

 

[ohdoris]

They left that poor child in a carrier bag covered in rubbish. I hope that justice is served inside prison, once they are locked away, it’s what they deserve