This thread would be a lot better if people didn't keep saying "I'm sorry I must have missed it when xyz"
Sorry, I misunderstood! I thought you were saying that I’d suggested she didn’t need a legal consequence.I didn’t think otherwise, but this element of the case seems to be being batted back and forth.
Just pointing out a MH is established in law, and has been for decades.
I too believe she’s retained her strong personality, even in their CCTV public argument when he was hobbling behind her.Having said all of that though. The friend in Cairo did seem to say that CM was known to be a fool in love. And this was before she seemed to really suffer badly with her MH and before she met the violent rapist MG.
There is a couple in my close family and the woman in her everyday life/ with friends and family comes across as super confident, bolshy, very in control personality. It's only in her relationship with the husband that he has to be the complete boss/ dominant one. He controls all the money/ financial decisions, all decisions about their family life (parenting decisions, holidays, what they do at the weekend) and she has to have dinner on the table every night for him. He is often putting out ultimatums like 'if you do this, I will cause trouble for you at work' or 'we need to work on our relationship or it's over'. I find it a huge mismatch how she is the super confident, bossy one to almost everyone else (friends/ family/ at work) but in her relationship he has to be in charge and she ... it feels like lets him though I know that's probably not the right wording. And in this scenario there is no mental illness and I wouldn't even say this extends to coercive control.
I think CM's untreated mental illness (whatever she may have inherited from her father plus PTSD from the cult etc) spiralled out of control when she met MG but that doesn't mean that she lost her strong personality. That makes for a dangerous combination. When they began to become more isolated from society/ friends/ family is where it all started to go very wrong and I think that mostly comes down to him.
Yes, my friend was previous strong and confident and still seemed to be on the outside but was very much controlled by her boyfriend. It isn't always that obvious and people don't fall into nice little stereotypes. This friend had the cash to escape too but still was unable to for many years. Even after she had left it took many years to regain her true self worth but unless you knew her very well you would never have realised as she had learned to cover it up to outsiders.Having the money wasn’t why I thought she might (possibly) be dominant. It’s just an element where she does (ultimately) have control. If she was pushed, she could use her cash to escape, some people don’t have that option.
It seems to me she seemed confident, with travelling, university, journalism etc. I think you could not be a shrinking violet if perusing a career in journalism.
Maybe I should say, she does not appear to be overly submissive as apposed to dominant. Maybe they were a match.
Yes, I get that too. We often question why someone ‘falls in love’ with a particular person and just can’t seem to see, or acknowledge their flaws, or makes excuses for them.Yes, my friend was previous strong and confident and still seemed to be on the outside but was very much controlled by her boyfriend. It isn't always that obvious and people don't fall into nice little stereotypes. This friend had the cash to escape too but still was unable to for many years. Even after she had left it took many years to regain her true self worth but unless you knew her very well you would never have realised as she had learned to cover it up to outsiders.
Yeah it's hardly surprising that someone with his history would find it difficult to reintegrate into society. Even if people/ employers were willing to accept him which is really doubtful he surely didn't develop normal social skills spending ages 14- 34 in an American jail.I too believe she’s retained her strong personality, even in their CCTV public argument when he was hobbling behind her.
I’ve no sympathy for him, but god knows what happened in his 20 odd years in an American jail. Paranoia? Not necessarily to a clinical level.
The social isolation would have fuelled that for him, and no doubt her.
I’ve actually noticed a few people who, IMO, have lost touch with reality fuelled by theories on sm. Her anti SS sites are hardly balanced.
Someone up thread said that they met at an art class, this was reported in the media.Yeah it's hardly surprising that someone with his history would find it difficult to reintegrate into society. Even if people/ employers were willing to accept him which is really doubtful he surely didn't develop normal social skills spending ages 14- 34 in an American jail.
I would be intrigued to know how they met and began to get close. Many bad men are able to put on a veneer of social acceptability at least to begin with but I really struggle to imagine 'what she saw in him'. I think that's one of the biggest missing pieces in this case - their relationship and lives together during that extremely isolated period
Agree with your post but don't think that's right about how they met. Someone did mention an art class on this thread but that's the only reference I can find, no mention of it in any media. Around that time on the thread people were getting mixed up because she met him while she was doing an acting course but there's no indication that he was doing the acting course as well (very doubtful as it would probably have been very expensive and privately funded)Someone up thread said that they met at an art class, this was reported in the media.
I know some are attracted to ‘bad boys’, one of my friends for example, but I can’t see why. A friend of hers said she was attracted to this type.
I agree about his socialisation in prison, for that length of time, hardly normal.
I searched for how they met when the art class was referenced too, and all I found was his labouring workAgree with your post but don't think that's right about how they met. Someone did mention an art class on this thread but that's the only reference I can find, no mention of it in any media. Around that time on the thread people were getting mixed up because she met him while she was doing an acting course but there's no indication that he was doing the acting course as well (very doubtful as it would probably have been very expensive and privately funded)
The only thing that's been reported in the media is that they met when he was working as a labourer near where she lived in London when she was a drama student - e.g. The 54 day hunt for runaway couple Constance Marten and Mark Gordon | Daily Mail Online
Sources say Ms Marten and Mr Gordon had been living an isolated life since meeting in 2016 in London.The then-drama student Ms Marten had started cutting off ties with family and friends.It is not clear how they met, but Mr Gordon is believed to have lived locally to her and worked as a labourer.
I'm still struggling to picture the meet-cute though
Thanks for the correction and information. I didn’t know he worked as a labourer. Maybe not the best job but still enough to help pull him out the myre. I wonder what his workmates, if he had any, thought of him?Agree with your post but don't think that's right about how they met. Someone did mention an art class on this thread but that's the only reference I can find, no mention of it in any media. Around that time on the thread people were getting mixed up because she met him while she was doing an acting course but there's no indication that he was doing the acting course as well (very doubtful as it would probably have been very expensive and privately funded)
The only thing that's been reported in the media is that they met when he was working as a labourer near where she lived in London when she was a drama student - e.g. The 54 day hunt for runaway couple Constance Marten and Mark Gordon | Daily Mail Online
Sources say Ms Marten and Mr Gordon had been living an isolated life since meeting in 2016 in London.The then-drama student Ms Marten had started cutting off ties with family and friends.It is not clear how they met, but Mr Gordon is believed to have lived locally to her and worked as a labourer.
I'm still struggling to picture the meet-cute though
It’d also be a lot better if people stopped accusing others of making excuses for baby murderersThis thread would be a lot better if people didn't keep saying "I'm sorry I must have missed it when xyz"
If (big if, I know) MG did emotionally manipulate CG in the beginning for his own gain - even before all the children etc - it would likely be the classic love bombing, convincing her that he needs her and more importantly she needs him, everyone who expresses a doubt is jealous and/or trying to ruin her happiness.I really struggle to imagine 'what she saw in him'
Absolutely and a very important point to make. I haven’t spoken much about his (speculative) mental health purely because I haven’t seen enough to feel that I can even speculate.People seem to use CM's mental health and troubled background to justify her being the one who is being controlled/abused by MG, but what about him? He had a shit childhood, clearly had MH issues, committed a heinous crime and landed in jail which continued a shit childhood into a shit adulthood in prison (which, of course, was deserved due to said crime). He has had a terrible life, some of that his own making and as such could be classed as pretty mentally unstable and vulnerable......and therefore susceptible to control and abuse by others. Especially if his formative years were spent being in a controlled environment (prison) with everyone else (prison guards) doing everything for you (rehabilitation back into society is also truly shocking coming out of the prison system).
The same as is being argued for her could be true for him. Shit childhood, shit adolescence of her own making by joining a cult who may or may not have controlled her, mental health issues as a result etc etc.
I am starting to think that these two entirely damaged individuals came together and bonded over their shit circumstances. Probably became trauma bonded to one another, possibly both abusive and controlling at times, not necessarily one being dominant over the other. Sometimes it isn't as black and white as one being the abuser and the other abused, it is just a straight up toxic relationship where they are both as bad as each other (although that doesn't make one person or the other more morally right either).
Regardless she is in a stronger position to come across as a mentally unwell female with a troubled childhood given there are more men than women in DV and controlling relationships. Agree that the money and status thing is a moot point too, having been the sole earner and the victim in an abusive relationship. If anything he would use my earning as a stick to beat me with, take money by using my card and tell everyone I was financially abusing him by not giving him money (which I did so he would have to get a job).
Ive seen no friends of MG speak out to his character like CM's have, only his mum and sister who claim he wrongly went to prison and was innocent. I think he probably has no friends and although he was working, lived quite a solitary life and probably didnt interact with any work colleagues.Thanks for the correction and information. I didn’t know he worked as a labourer. Maybe not the best job but still enough to help pull him out the myre. I wonder what his workmates, if he had any, thought of him?
Perhaps we’ll never know how they actually met.
It would be interesting to know his prison record. He was sentenced to 40 years but was released after 24. It would be good to know the reasoning behind that. I know some states, fairly recently, had to review cases that occurred when the offender was a juvenile. Something to do with that?Ive seen no friends of MG speak out to his character like CM's have, only his mum and sister who claim he wrongly went to prison and was innocent. I think he probably has no friends and although he was working, lived quite a solitary life and probably didnt interact with any work colleagues.
Ive been wondering about the theory of them having children removed from their care because of his criminal record. Some sex offenders go on to have children and are allowed to keep them, but how do SS decide this? Is it based on how serious the offence was? Or based on assessments and if so what kind of assessments do they do, psychological assessments? Also how do SS even keep track on sex offenders that may go on to have children?
I think you have to check in regularly if you're on the SO register, similar to being on licence.Ive seen no friends of MG speak out to his character like CM's have, only his mum and sister who claim he wrongly went to prison and was innocent. I think he probably has no friends and although he was working, lived quite a solitary life and probably didnt interact with any work colleagues.
Ive been wondering about the theory of them having children removed from their care because of his criminal record. Some sex offenders go on to have children and are allowed to keep them, but how do SS decide this? Is it based on how serious the offence was? Or based on assessments and if so what kind of assessments do they do, psychological assessments? Also how do SS even keep track on sex offenders that may go on to have children?
Is it quite normal to sentence a juvenile to that length of time in the states? This was obviously back in the 80s, did they do mental health assessments prior to sentencing back then, especially given that a 14 year old commited such a terrible crime. I just think theres an awful lot more to all this, but yeah you could be right and they reviewed it and released him.It would be interesting to know his prison record. He was sentenced to 40 years but was released after 24. It would be good to know the reasoning behind that. I know some states fairly recently had to review cases that occurred when the offender was a juvenile. Something to do with that?
You’re right about him probably not having any friends.
I think if he was convicted of offences against children he definitely would not be allowed to keep them, but other than that, I don’t know.
It could be a number of things. It could be that MG is an abuser and a risk to his children and because CM won't end the relationship the children are removed.Ive seen no friends of MG speak out to his character like CM's have, only his mum and sister who claim he wrongly went to prison and was innocent. I think he probably has no friends and although he was working, lived quite a solitary life and probably didnt interact with any work colleagues.
Ive been wondering about the theory of them having children removed from their care because of his criminal record. Some sex offenders go on to have children and are allowed to keep them, but how do SS decide this? Is it based on how serious the offence was? Or based on assessments and if so what kind of assessments do they do, psychological assessments? Also how do SS even keep track on sex offenders that may go on to have children?
Yeah its just because I've seen others saying it could be solely down to MG being a SO. I think theres got to be a bit more to it than that.It could be a number of things. It could be that MG is an abuser and a risk to his children and because CM won't end the relationship the children are removed.
It could be that CM is the problem and any children she has with anyone are likely to be removed.
It could be drugs for one or both of them.
One or both of them are neglectful.
I think it's unlikely that the children were removed just because of MGs history, it's probably a combination of lots of things.
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